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  29 2021-03-25T03:39:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/ed49203daabb...8f94c70625eb
  30 2021-03-25T03:39:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ec76bad Hennadii Stepanov: build, qt: Fix static builds on macOS Big Sur
  31 2021-03-25T03:39:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8f94c70 fanquake: Merge #21495: build, qt: Fix static builds on macOS Big Sur
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  34 2021-03-25T03:39:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21495: build, qt: Fix static builds on macOS Big Sur (master...210321-layer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21495
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  41 2021-03-25T03:53:48  <SuViVoR> i want to get started with development
  42 2021-03-25T03:53:57  <SuViVoR> anyway i can help out?
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  44 2021-03-25T04:06:12  <phantomcircuit> SuViVoR, there's issues tagged 'good first issue'
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  52 2021-03-25T04:16:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #21527: NOMERGE: net_processing: orphan handling changes  (master...202102-orphanworkset) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21527
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  55 2021-03-25T04:18:10  <SuViVoR1> i am looking for it in the github repo but could'nt find it, can you please help phantomcircuit
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  57 2021-03-25T04:18:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] amitiuttarwar opened pull request #21528: [net_processing] Reduce addr blackholes  (master...2021-03-addr-defer2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21528
  58 2021-03-25T04:18:26  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
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  60 2021-03-25T04:18:40  *** SuViVoR1 <SuViVoR1!~SuViVoR@unaffiliated/suvivor> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
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  62 2021-03-25T04:19:53  <SuViVoR> sorry i keep getting disconnected
  63 2021-03-25T04:20:09  <SuViVoR> i am looking for it in the github repo but could'nt find it, can you please help phantomcircuit
  64 2021-03-25T04:21:18  <SuViVoR> https://github.com/brucewayne0011/bitcoin/commit/fa30d5282cb07b6de0160d7df8b649332db97dde
  65 2021-03-25T04:21:24  <SuViVoR> is this the one?
  66 2021-03-25T04:23:06  <sipa> SuViVoR: this is good writeup: https://medium.com/@amitiu/onboarding-to-bitcoin-core-7c1a83b20365
  67 2021-03-25T04:23:41  <SuViVoR> thanks a lot sipa
  68 2021-03-25T04:24:13  <sipa> also this: https://jonatack.github.io/articles/how-to-contribute-pull-requests-to-bitcoin-core
  69 2021-03-25T04:24:46  <SuViVoR> thanks again :)
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  98 2021-03-25T07:04:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8f94c70625eb...9217f9fe7351
  99 2021-03-25T07:04:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa818ca MarcoFalke: fuzz: [refactor] Use PickValue where possible
 100 2021-03-25T07:04:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9217f9f MarcoFalke: Merge #21522: fuzz: [refactor] Use PickValue where possible
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 103 2021-03-25T07:04:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21522: fuzz: [refactor] Use PickValue where possible (master...2103-fuzzPickValue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21522
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 121 2021-03-25T10:12:32  <wumpus> hebasto: are you sure you need that and not the libxkbcommon-x11-dev package?
 122 2021-03-25T10:13:07  <wumpus> (after all, the non dev packages provide runtime functionality only, i would guess the builder wants to link against it, but unsure)
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 136 2021-03-25T12:13:39  <michaelfolkson> #proposedmeetingtopic Taproot activation update
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 143 2021-03-25T13:04:53  <hebasto> wumpus: yes, I think, as an error is "error while loading shared libraries: libxkbcommon-x11.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" during runtime
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 158 2021-03-25T15:13:14  <shesek> why does importmulti with timestamp=now sometimes result in a (short) rescan and sometimes does not?
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 167 2021-03-25T15:36:28  <darosior> shesek: iirc it always scan 2W of blocks?
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 169 2021-03-25T15:39:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sethupavan12 opened pull request #21529: Updated copyright year (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21529
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 175 2021-03-25T15:53:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sethupavan12 closed pull request #21529: Updated copyright year (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21529
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 178 2021-03-25T15:53:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sethupavan12 reopened pull request #21529: Updated copyright year (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21529
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 181 2021-03-25T15:53:56  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sethupavan12 closed pull request #21529: Updated copyright year (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21529
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 187 2021-03-25T16:25:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sethupavan12 opened pull request #21530: Updated copyright headers to 2021 (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21530
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 190 2021-03-25T16:34:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sethupavan12 closed pull request #21530: Updated copyright headers to 2021 (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21530
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 192 2021-03-25T16:42:51  <wumpus> hebasto: yes that sounds like you need the runtime package; it is strange tho, that linking works apparantly but execution does not, is it different platforms maybe ? (e.g. arm versus aarch64)
 193 2021-03-25T16:44:56  <hebasto> wumpus: it's linux 32bit, probably `libxkbcommon-x11-0:i386` is required
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 854 2021-03-25T18:19:05  <amiti> #proposedmeetingtopic addr relay improvements
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 870 2021-03-25T18:41:15  <jeremyrubin> I don't think the proposedmeetingtopic link works?
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 873 2021-03-25T18:44:00  <jeremyrubin> #proposedmeetingtopic release timeline for Taproot activation and parameters
 874 2021-03-25T18:44:09  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: Yeah doesn't seem to be
 875 2021-03-25T18:44:10  <jeremyrubin> #proposedmeetingtopic SpeedyTrial pull requests #21392 and #21377
 876 2021-03-25T18:44:11  *** pox <pox!~pox@gateway/tor-sasl/pox> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 877 2021-03-25T18:44:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21392 | Implement BIP 8 based Speedy Trial activation by achow101 · Pull Request #21392 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 878 2021-03-25T18:44:14  *** az0re <az0re!~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 879 2021-03-25T18:44:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21377 | Speedy trial support for versionbits by ajtowns · Pull Request #21377 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 880 2021-03-25T18:44:17  *** Norrin <Norrin!~Joe@2605:2700:0:5::4713:9659> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 881 2021-03-25T18:45:05  <michaelfolkson> I did propose a Taproot activation topic earlier today but hasn't got picked up. Nor has amiti's
 882 2021-03-25T18:45:21  <achow101> michaelfolkson: your topic is there
 883 2021-03-25T18:45:33  *** openoms <openoms!~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/openoms> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 884 2021-03-25T18:45:46  <achow101> I don't think it updates in real time
 885 2021-03-25T18:46:38  *** SuViVoR <SuViVoR!~SuViVoR@unaffiliated/suvivor> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
 886 2021-03-25T18:46:39  <michaelfolkson> Oh yeah you're right. I was looking at the wallet one
 887 2021-03-25T18:46:43  * michaelfolkson slaps head
 888 2021-03-25T18:47:31  <jeremyrubin> oh me too; the urls look very similar
 889 2021-03-25T18:47:43  <michaelfolkson> I'm happy for you to take the Taproot topics jeremyrubin. Everyone is sick of me
 890 2021-03-25T18:49:44  <phantomcircuit> jeremyrubin, freenode is also currently exploding from restarting servers
 891 2021-03-25T18:50:10  <jeremyrubin> chin up michaelfolkson
 892 2021-03-25T18:50:12  <wumpus> yes it can take a while for the gnusha site to update
 893 2021-03-25T18:50:22  <michaelfolkson> I did try to summarize the block height versus mix of block height and MTP discussion on SE https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/103854/should-block-height-or-mtp-or-a-mixture-of-both-be-used-in-a-soft-fork-activatio
 894 2021-03-25T18:50:30  <michaelfolkson> Suggested edits welcome
 895 2021-03-25T18:50:36  <michaelfolkson> Ha thanks jeremyrubin
 896 2021-03-25T18:51:04  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: either way; I do think that more specific topics are beneficial for the core dev meeting given we're looking at a release in 1 month
 897 2021-03-25T18:53:36  *** SebastianNoelLbk <SebastianNoelLbk!sebasti49@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fyrdfrjrgscqdppa> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 898 2021-03-25T18:55:08  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: Yup specific topics better
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 905 2021-03-25T19:00:44  <achow101> meeting?
 906 2021-03-25T19:00:45  <wumpus> #startmeeting
 907 2021-03-25T19:00:53  <jnewbery> hi
 908 2021-03-25T19:00:53  <luke-jr> o hai
 909 2021-03-25T19:00:56  <achow101> hi
 910 2021-03-25T19:00:58  <jeremyrubin> hi
 911 2021-03-25T19:00:59  <amiti> hi
 912 2021-03-25T19:00:59  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
 913 2021-03-25T19:01:02  <hebasto> hi
 914 2021-03-25T19:01:02  <wumpus> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
 915 2021-03-25T19:01:13  <fjahr> hi
 916 2021-03-25T19:01:17  <sipa> hi
 917 2021-03-25T19:01:22  <lightlike> hi
 918 2021-03-25T19:01:23  <meshcollider> hi
 919 2021-03-25T19:01:23  <michaelfolkson> hi
 920 2021-03-25T19:01:30  <aj_> hi
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 922 2021-03-25T19:01:39  <wumpus> FYI: you can propose meeting topics with #proposedmeetingtopic during the week, they will appear in http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt
 923 2021-03-25T19:01:49  <wumpus> These have been proposed for this week: Taproot activation update (michaelfolkson), Addr relay improvements (amiti)
 924 2021-03-25T19:01:59  <ariard> hi
 925 2021-03-25T19:02:15  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: I proposed 2
 926 2021-03-25T19:02:20  <wumpus> any last minute topics anyone wants to discuss?
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 928 2021-03-25T19:02:23  <michaelfolkson> wumpus: jeremyrubin is going to take the Taproot activation topic(s)
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 930 2021-03-25T19:02:31  <michaelfolkson> wumpus: So please withdraw mine
 931 2021-03-25T19:02:38  <jeremyrubin> 2021-03-25.log:11:44 < jeremyrubin> #proposedmeetingtopic release timeline for Taproot activation and parameters
 932 2021-03-25T19:02:39  <jeremyrubin> 2021-03-25.log:11:44 < jeremyrubin> #proposedmeetingtopic SpeedyTrial pull requests #21392 and #21377
 933 2021-03-25T19:02:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21392 | Implement BIP 8 based Speedy Trial activation by achow101 · Pull Request #21392 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 934 2021-03-25T19:02:45  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21377 | Speedy trial support for versionbits by ajtowns · Pull Request #21377 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 935 2021-03-25T19:03:13  *** aj_ is now known as aj
 936 2021-03-25T19:03:36  <wumpus> ok, yes, I was confused there because I didn't see much difference with michaelfolkson's topic, didn't notice the other one
 937 2021-03-25T19:03:56  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
 938 2021-03-25T19:04:15  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  has 8 blockers, 2 chasing concept ACK
 939 2021-03-25T19:04:33  <wumpus> anything to add/remove or that is ready for merge?
 940 2021-03-25T19:04:40  <sipa> oh short topic: how far do we want to backport BIP350/bech32m support?
 941 2021-03-25T19:05:16  <wumpus> sipa: noted
 942 2021-03-25T19:05:24  <ariard> #19160 is pretty mature and have been ack by jamesob, dongcarl and I, I guess it would benefit from one or two more pairs of eyes
 943 2021-03-25T19:05:27  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19160 | multiprocess: Add basic spawn and IPC support by ryanofsky · Pull Request #19160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 944 2021-03-25T19:05:27  <sipa> dank
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 946 2021-03-25T19:06:20  <wumpus> ariard: good to know, thanks
 947 2021-03-25T19:06:32  <achow101> topic: windows code signing key issues
 948 2021-03-25T19:06:38  <achow101> *topic suggestion
 949 2021-03-25T19:06:57  <wumpus> achow101: noted
 950 2021-03-25T19:07:04  *** Thomas[m]111 <Thomas[m]111!thomaseizi@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-oryvtmagjbbmtawj> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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 952 2021-03-25T19:07:18  <wumpus> lots of topics today so let's move on
 953 2021-03-25T19:07:21  <wumpus> #topic Addr relay improvements (amiti)
 954 2021-03-25T19:07:28  <amiti> Hey all, I opened #21528 yesterday and wanted to share some thoughts around how I see it fitting in to the bigger picture.
 955 2021-03-25T19:07:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21528 | [net_processing] Reduce addr blackholes by amitiuttarwar · Pull Request #21528 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 956 2021-03-25T19:07:33  <amiti> The PR is currently a draft & needs some cleaning up, but serves as a proof of concept. The goal is to reduce addr blackholes- aka relaying self advertisements to peers who are unlikely to continue relaying it to the network.
 957 2021-03-25T19:07:37  <amiti> The approach defers initializing the `m_addr_known` for inbound peers until they send us an addr related message. Then, it uses the presence of the filter to decide if a peer is eligible for addr relay before forwarding addresses (in `RelayAddress`).
 958 2021-03-25T19:07:41  <amiti> If something like this were to land into master, it would resolve my concern with the `disabletx` proposal, and #20726 / bip 338 could focus solely on transaction handling, while not having the addr blackhole concern block the end goal of increasing block-relay-only connections.
 959 2021-03-25T19:07:45  <amiti> That said, avoiding addr blackholes is a standalone win for improving addr relay, and currently would apply to block-relay-only connections as well as light clients.
 960 2021-03-25T19:07:50  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20726 | p2p: Add DISABLETX message for negotiating block-relay-only connections by sdaftuar · Pull Request #20726 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 961 2021-03-25T19:07:50  <amiti> Also want to mention, I do think this patch would be simpler / safer on top of the net/net_processing addr refactoring that jnewbery is doing. So if anyone is interested in helping, you can review this PR or #21236.
 962 2021-03-25T19:07:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21236 | Net processing: Extract `addr` send functionality into MaybeSendAddr() by jnewbery · Pull Request #21236 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 963 2021-03-25T19:07:57  <amiti> That’s all! Let me know if you have any questions or feedback :)
 964 2021-03-25T19:07:59  * michaelfolkson needs time to read
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 966 2021-03-25T19:08:27  <sipa> amiti: is there are risk of having both sides "wait" until they see an addr?
 967 2021-03-25T19:08:37  <luke-jr> amiti types fast :P
 968 2021-03-25T19:08:55  <amiti> def a risk, but shouldn't be a problem in the implementation
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 970 2021-03-25T19:09:09  <amiti> also there's asymmetry, we setup addr relay for outbound connections
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 972 2021-03-25T19:10:05  <jnewbery> in the current implementation, we'll always send our initial self-advertisement to outbounds
 973 2021-03-25T19:10:21  <amiti> (other than block-relay-only)
 974 2021-03-25T19:10:43  <sipa> not sure how i feel about making the assumption that a peer who doesn't relay addresses to us would be necessarily uninterested in getting them
 975 2021-03-25T19:11:05  <jnewbery> if they want them, they can send a getaddr
 976 2021-03-25T19:11:05  <lightlike> some peers might be blackholes by not actively sending addrs further, but they will still require addrs. should they use getaddr for that only?
 977 2021-03-25T19:11:17  <sipa> jnewbery: ah, that's a good point
 978 2021-03-25T19:11:22  <aj> sipa: we send GETADDR to our outbounds always, and consider inbounds non-blackholes if we receive GETADDR
 979 2021-03-25T19:11:36  <jnewbery> i think it'd be strange if a node wanted addrs but didn't send a getaddr
 980 2021-03-25T19:11:41  <sipa> that's fair
 981 2021-03-25T19:11:53  <ariard> i need to think about how it might affect lightclients, not sure if they do addr-relay with any consistency
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 983 2021-03-25T19:12:24  <wumpus> light clients never do addr relay afaik
 984 2021-03-25T19:12:26  <amiti> lightlike: yeah, I don't think we can prevent  all situations of blackholing, but the patch should mitigate some normal usage patterns
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 986 2021-03-25T19:12:46  <sipa> if we're going to give addresses to a peer, we must assume they can relay them further
 987 2021-03-25T19:12:47  <luke-jr> wumpus: but ideally they would
 988 2021-03-25T19:12:51  <jeremyrubin> so to summarize; it's basically don't send addrs till they've been requested once?
 989 2021-03-25T19:12:54  <luke-jr> or at least keep an addr db
 990 2021-03-25T19:13:00  <ariard> wumpus: that's my memory too but ideally they should
 991 2021-03-25T19:13:23  <amiti> jeremyrubin: yes but with the added clause of to inbound peers
 992 2021-03-25T19:13:47  <sipa> you can't have a mode where you consider a peer both a blackhole, but still give them addresses... because such a state could be abused to bias addr relay
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 995 2021-03-25T19:14:25  <jnewbery> jeremyrubin: or if that peer has relayed an addr to us
 996 2021-03-25T19:14:29  <sipa> so i think it's correct to only use as criterion does this peer _want_ addresses or not; not whether they're going to relay it further
 997 2021-03-25T19:14:40  <jeremyrubin> sipa: +1
 998 2021-03-25T19:15:21  <jeremyrubin> How much bandwidth does this save amiti?
 999 2021-03-25T19:15:34  *** jonatack_ <jonatack_!~jon@37.167.116.33> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1000 2021-03-25T19:15:35  <jamesob> hi, sorry am late
1001 2021-03-25T19:16:07  <sipa> jeremyrubin: i think it's mostly an attempt at avoiding black holing?
1002 2021-03-25T19:16:08  <amiti> jeremyrubin: hm, I don't know. the motivation was more about addr relay than bandwidth.
1003 2021-03-25T19:16:36  <jeremyrubin> I'm just trying to grok why we care
1004 2021-03-25T19:16:42  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6981:7880::3> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
1005 2021-03-25T19:16:44  <jeremyrubin> if it can't stop a malicious peer from becoming a black hole
1006 2021-03-25T19:16:54  <amiti> its for reducing the total black holes
1007 2021-03-25T19:16:57  <jeremyrubin> why do we care if a honest peer is a black hole?
1008 2021-03-25T19:17:07  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6981:7880::3> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1009 2021-03-25T19:17:13  <jeremyrubin> so we don't advertise them or something?
1010 2021-03-25T19:17:23  <jnewbery> jeremyrubin: not much bandwidth. At most we only send one addr message per peer every 30 seconds
1011 2021-03-25T19:17:27  <sipa> jeremyrubin: because in general you assume the network has some minimal number of honest peers
1012 2021-03-25T19:17:42  <amiti> so, a key component of addr relay is self advertisement. approximately once a day we announce our addr to each peer, and when we receive those messages from others, we relay to 1-2 peers
1013 2021-03-25T19:17:47  <aj> jeremyrubin: we only choose a few peers to relay to every day via RelayAddress() don't want to pick ones that don't care about addresses
1014 2021-03-25T19:17:49  <sipa> this doesn't have any effect if all your peers are intentionally-blackholing attackers
1015 2021-03-25T19:17:54  <amiti> the idea is an ongoing trickle of announcing addrs
1016 2021-03-25T19:18:12  <jeremyrubin> Ok I'm just trying to understand why we care about blackholes, which the PR could better motivate
1017 2021-03-25T19:18:21  <jeremyrubin> I can take it out of band from the meeting though
1018 2021-03-25T19:18:45  *** ishaqm <ishaqm!~ishaqm@host-89-243-177-129.as13285.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1019 2021-03-25T19:18:47  *** Talkless <Talkless!~Talkless@mail.dargis.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1020 2021-03-25T19:19:09  <amiti> jeremyrubin: has your question been answered here?
1021 2021-03-25T19:19:20  <sipa> seems like a reasonable idea; maybe we can also discuss it further in a P2P meeting
1022 2021-03-25T19:19:27  <jnewbery> sipa: right, this isn't effective against peers 'maliciously' not relaying your addrs, but I don't think anything can be, except a diversity of peers.
1023 2021-03-25T19:19:36  <sipa> jnewbery: indeed
1024 2021-03-25T19:19:45  *** jonatack_ <jonatack_!~jon@37.167.116.33> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1025 2021-03-25T19:19:46  <jeremyrubin> amiti: no; it's OK though. I just don't see which resource this is saving us
1026 2021-03-25T19:20:01  <jnewbery> jeremyrubin: it's not saving a resource
1027 2021-03-25T19:20:06  <amiti> its less about resource saving and more about addr propagation
1028 2021-03-25T19:20:08  <aj> jeremyrubin: see net_processing::RelayAddress
1029 2021-03-25T19:20:10  <sipa> jnewbery: it more a "you *definitely* don't care about addresses? ok, then i'll send them to someone else instead"
1030 2021-03-25T19:20:18  <jnewbery> sipa: exactly
1031 2021-03-25T19:20:20  <amiti> sipa: exactly
1032 2021-03-25T19:20:21  <amiti> :)
1033 2021-03-25T19:20:47  <wumpus> time for next topic?
1034 2021-03-25T19:20:53  <wumpus> #topic Release timeline for Taproot activation and parameters (jeremyrubin)
1035 2021-03-25T19:20:54  <amiti> yeah sounds good
1036 2021-03-25T19:20:58  <amiti> thanks for the input!
1037 2021-03-25T19:21:25  <jeremyrubin> ok, so we had a meeting on tuesday in ##taproot-activation
1038 2021-03-25T19:21:33  <jeremyrubin> I posted notes to bitcoin-dev mailing list
1039 2021-03-25T19:21:34  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6981:7880::3> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
1040 2021-03-25T19:21:39  <sipa> amiti: i feel a comic coming up? :)
1041 2021-03-25T19:22:04  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6981:7880::3> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1042 2021-03-25T19:22:14  <jeremyrubin> The outcome of that is that we're looking at a release with parameters in the next month, assuming there's not strong opposition for whatever reason
1043 2021-03-25T19:22:18  <amiti> sipa: suggestions always welcome :)
1044 2021-03-25T19:22:43  <achow101> didn't we have this discussion last week?
1045 2021-03-25T19:22:49  <jeremyrubin> With respect to ST, we agreed that we should fix for a Novemeber 15th height regardless of release date/starttime
1046 2021-03-25T19:23:12  <michaelfolkson> achow101: Updates, progress since last week
1047 2021-03-25T19:23:13  <jeremyrubin> achow101: it didn't have sufficient heads up that a meeting was happening for it to be a respectful process
1048 2021-03-25T19:23:51  <sipa> i'm planning to through all the activation related PRs for code review; new comments on what activation is actually appropriate
1049 2021-03-25T19:23:51  <sipa> s/new/no/
1050 2021-03-25T19:24:08  <michaelfolkson> +1 for a black hole amiti comic
1051 2021-03-25T19:24:23  <michaelfolkson> Full nodes in outer space
1052 2021-03-25T19:24:49  <jeremyrubin> can we keep it on topic?
1053 2021-03-25T19:25:07  <jeremyrubin> Does anyone have any reservations with a release during April?
1054 2021-03-25T19:25:19  <wumpus> summary from last week was: wumpus  so summary re: taproot activation: aim for april 3 for 0.21.1rc1, review both PRs asap, please hold up merging conflicting PRs for now
1055 2021-03-25T19:25:28  <wumpus> michaelfolkson: yessss
1056 2021-03-25T19:25:37  <achow101> I think we can keep the timeline that we discussed last week
1057 2021-03-25T19:25:43  <aj> are we aiming for taproot activation params in rc2 not rc1 then?
1058 2021-03-25T19:25:59  <wumpus> aj: w-why
1059 2021-03-25T19:26:03  <achow101> aj: rc1, but have space for an rc2 for other issues that may crop up
1060 2021-03-25T19:26:05  <luke-jr> aj: no? rc1 should be a cnadidate..
1061 2021-03-25T19:26:13  <wumpus> the aim should always be to get things into the first possible rc
1062 2021-03-25T19:26:21  <aj> okay
1063 2021-03-25T19:26:34  <aj> april 3 sounds very quick!
1064 2021-03-25T19:26:37  <wumpus> planning for something to do in rc2 sounds really strange to me but dunno
1065 2021-03-25T19:26:42  <jeremyrubin> Ok, wumpus does it seem that we can get rc1 by then?
1066 2021-03-25T19:26:48  <wumpus> aj: yes it might be too soon
1067 2021-03-25T19:26:52  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: to be honest? no
1068 2021-03-25T19:27:22  <michaelfolkson> Are there any follow up PRs planned for either achow101 PR or aj PR? I think achow101 has said he plans at least one follow up. I think all of aj fuzzing PRs are merged?
1069 2021-03-25T19:27:27  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: aim for it, so the inevitable slip is a slip :P
1070 2021-03-25T19:27:29  <wumpus> if you mean "can you go through the release process by then" sure, but it seems somewhat rushed, did we decide which of the two PRs to choose yet?
1071 2021-03-25T19:27:46  <aj> wumpus: "by then" == "may 1st" ?
1072 2021-03-25T19:27:52  <achow101> michaelfolkson: only followup is the activation parameters. other followups don't need backport
1073 2021-03-25T19:28:03  <michaelfolkson> achow101: Ok cool
1074 2021-03-25T19:28:15  <jeremyrubin> There's some question of which of the PRs. hence sep topic
1075 2021-03-25T19:28:19  <achow101> actually april 10th for rc1 still keeps the timeline.
1076 2021-03-25T19:28:27  <wumpus> aj: people are talking about *april 3*
1077 2021-03-25T19:28:58  <jeremyrubin> w.r.t. the mid-MTP thing, the starttime is less sensitive than the stoptime
1078 2021-03-25T19:29:02  <michaelfolkson> I tried writing up the block height versus mix of block height and MTP discussion on a SE question. Suggested edits welcome https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/103854/should-block-height-or-mtp-or-a-mixture-of-both-be-used-in-a-soft-fork-activatio
1079 2021-03-25T19:29:18  <aj> wumpus: i think jeremyrubin's/##t-a's last timeline was rc1 out the door by may 1st?
1080 2021-03-25T19:29:20  <jeremyrubin> so I don't think we need to worry that much about releasing with whatever start we want
1081 2021-03-25T19:29:21  <wumpus> achow101: bumping it to april 10 does sound a bit more realistic
1082 2021-03-25T19:29:33  <luke-jr> MTP was never a viable option to begin with
1083 2021-03-25T19:29:46  <BlueMatt> wumpus: in the meeting there was also discussion of "it takes the time it takes, if it slips, ok, if it slips past mid-may, then we bump the eventual lock-in time, if it doesnt, then we always set activation to estimated-release + 1 week or so"
1084 2021-03-25T19:29:51  <jeremyrubin> My suggestion was rc1 may 1st, starttime may 7th, 1st period signalling mid may
1085 2021-03-25T19:29:54  <wumpus> aj: I was pasting from the conclusion of last week's IRC meeting, I do not know what was discussed elsewhere
1086 2021-03-25T19:29:59  <michaelfolkson> Currently achow101 PR is entirely block height and aj PR is a mix of block height and MTP
1087 2021-03-25T19:30:01  <aj> wumpus: aha, thanks
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1089 2021-03-25T19:30:04  *** smctwo <smctwo!~smctwo@86.98.5.100> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1090 2021-03-25T19:30:10  <BlueMatt> so the timeline can and shoulld de dependent on when the release finishes, its not a "we have to get release by X"
1091 2021-03-25T19:30:24  <BlueMatt> at least in the taproot-activation discussion
1092 2021-03-25T19:30:34  <jeremyrubin> BlueMatt: sure, but we should set a schedule we're trying to keep
1093 2021-03-25T19:30:40  <achow101> BlueMatt: yes, but also, deadlines are a motivator, even if they are fuzzy
1094 2021-03-25T19:30:41  <wumpus> BlueMatt: that's the only thing that makes sense anyway
1095 2021-03-25T19:30:42  <jeremyrubin> april 3 seems unrealistic
1096 2021-03-25T19:30:51  <sipa> doesn't the start date needs wider coordination? like talking to miners and businesses to see if they're ready to deploy?
1097 2021-03-25T19:30:59  <BlueMatt> if we dont know when the code gets merged, then we cant pick a day, until then, the schedule is merge + whatever.
1098 2021-03-25T19:31:03  <luke-jr> sipa: if they aren't, they just don't signal
1099 2021-03-25T19:31:07  <wumpus> 'do a release at all costs' is a big nope to me
1100 2021-03-25T19:31:12  <jeremyrubin> sipa: No; start date is not super sensitive IMO compared to stop date
1101 2021-03-25T19:31:23  <luke-jr> sipa: but yes, wider coordination on startheight is important anyway
1102 2021-03-25T19:31:25  <sipa> okay, not going to wade into that
1103 2021-03-25T19:31:25  <BlueMatt> s/stop/activation/
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1105 2021-03-25T19:31:41  <jeremyrubin> activation is sensitive OTOH
1106 2021-03-25T19:31:53  <jeremyrubin> the outcome of that was we'll project out a height for November 15th
1107 2021-03-25T19:31:57  <michaelfolkson> It would be nice to announce a start height as early as we can
1108 2021-03-25T19:32:08  *** smctwo <smctwo!~smctwo@bba601296.alshamil.net.ae> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1109 2021-03-25T19:32:08  <michaelfolkson> But not at expense of rushing
1110 2021-03-25T19:32:14  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: doesn't matter till it's in a release
1111 2021-03-25T19:32:36  <BlueMatt> anyway, not sure there's more discussion to be had here - the code can be merged when its ready, until then, its just speculation
1112 2021-03-25T19:32:38  <wumpus> was one PR chosen? is it clsoe to merge?
1113 2021-03-25T19:32:43  <jeremyrubin> next topic?
1114 2021-03-25T19:32:45  <BlueMatt> review the code, decide on the pr, and then talk again
1115 2021-03-25T19:32:53  <BlueMatt> wumpus: nope, thats up to code review, mostly.
1116 2021-03-25T19:32:58  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: (as in, next topic is about that)
1117 2021-03-25T19:33:02  <BlueMatt> because, ultimately, no one could decide.
1118 2021-03-25T19:33:05  <wumpus> we didn't even decide a PR yet? yes, I think this is pointless like this, let's move on
1119 2021-03-25T19:33:08  <sipa> BlueMatt: nack
1120 2021-03-25T19:33:14  <luke-jr> wumpus: yes, achow101's
1121 2021-03-25T19:33:20  <achow101> both PRs are at one ack
1122 2021-03-25T19:33:20  <wumpus> #topic How far do we want to backport BIP350/bech32m support? (sipa)
1123 2021-03-25T19:33:23  <BlueMatt> sipa: to...?
1124 2021-03-25T19:33:36  <sipa> i *really* dislike using "this things seems to get reviewed faster" as a criterion to decide how consensus changes will be activated
1125 2021-03-25T19:33:45  <luke-jr> sipa: not sure why BIP350 would be eligible for backporting at all
1126 2021-03-25T19:33:56  <sipa> there should be a clear proposal, with buy-in, and then we implement that
1127 2021-03-25T19:34:13  <BlueMatt> sipa: nooooo, thats not what I was suggesting, I was suggesting a part of the criteria is what code reviewers think of it
1128 2021-03-25T19:34:29  <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm ok
1129 2021-03-25T19:34:30  <wumpus> sipa: right, I don't think it's great to have two competing PRs for this at all, I think it would make sense to choose one and close the other kind of asap
1130 2021-03-25T19:34:35  <michaelfolkson> If you'd prefer entirely block height then you'd prefer achow101 PR. Please read my SE link on that
1131 2021-03-25T19:34:38  <BlueMatt> as in, which one happens is basically "people are kinda fine with whatever, but if code reviewers feel strongly about one vs the other's safety in code, then we go with that"
1132 2021-03-25T19:34:50  <sipa> i'm happy to do code review for all of them
1133 2021-03-25T19:34:59  <achow101> luke-jr: presumably to allow sending to taproot without upgrading major release?
1134 2021-03-25T19:34:59  <luke-jr> ST (with heights) has wide support; this MTP variant does not.
1135 2021-03-25T19:35:00  <wumpus> it really doesn't make sense to discuss a timeline every week if there is no progress in that regard
1136 2021-03-25T19:35:03  <sipa> but i'm not going to ack merging until it's clear which one is chosen
1137 2021-03-25T19:35:04  <ariard> i've reviewed both,  i've a preference for bip9-amendment, would review both anyway
1138 2021-03-25T19:35:07  <michaelfolkson> I personally have a preference for a consistent use of block height across the activation mechanims
1139 2021-03-25T19:35:17  <ariard> but better to focus on one
1140 2021-03-25T19:35:30  <michaelfolkson> Mixing block height and MTP doesn't make sense to me
1141 2021-03-25T19:35:52  <michaelfolkson> But as I said please read my SE post and suggest edits and improvements
1142 2021-03-25T19:36:03  <BlueMatt> sipa: ultimately, there's....rather strong personalities who are stuck in the sand on picking one, but a small enough set of people and an equal amount on both sides, so deciding is gonna require code review deciding on code safety :/
1143 2021-03-25T19:36:40  <sipa> sigh
1144 2021-03-25T19:36:41  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: I agree, but then the most likely outcome is a UASF BIP lOT=true released before we agree on anything, which is precisely what certain people have NACKd
1145 2021-03-25T19:36:53  <jeremyrubin> so it seems deleterious to not just decide on one or the other
1146 2021-03-25T19:37:03  <michaelfolkson> I think reviewers can come to a view on block height versus a mix of block height and MTP perrsonally
1147 2021-03-25T19:37:21  <jeremyrubin> Either can be compatible with a subsequent BIP8 release
1148 2021-03-25T19:37:25  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: Any UASF is entirely irrelevant to this discussion
1149 2021-03-25T19:37:27  <sipa> i don't care about one or the other; i think all of this is a storm in a cup of water
1150 2021-03-25T19:37:32  <sipa> just pick one ffs
1151 2021-03-25T19:37:36  <BlueMatt> michaelfolkson: jeremyrubin please take it to taproot-activation.
1152 2021-03-25T19:37:39  <ariard> sipa: thanks!
1153 2021-03-25T19:37:55  <wumpus> if we want to get to to all the topics today, we should move on
1154 2021-03-25T19:38:10  <BlueMatt> sipa: well, the people who show up in taproot-activation are....the people who feel the strongest and the most stubborn about it. without more voices there, there will be no agreement, sadly.
1155 2021-03-25T19:38:11  <ariard> we should do a fair coins toss fwiw
1156 2021-03-25T19:38:21  <BlueMatt> anyway, lets move on, this isnt the right venue to debate it.
1157 2021-03-25T19:38:32  <wumpus> we can also discuss taproot for the rest of the meeting, of course
1158 2021-03-25T19:38:55  <luke-jr> thought we were trying to give sipa the floor for BIP350
1159 2021-03-25T19:38:57  <wumpus> ~20 mins to go
1160 2021-03-25T19:38:57  <achow101> re the actual topic: I think it makes sense to backport to 0.21 and 0.20
1161 2021-03-25T19:39:03  <wumpus> sipa: your topic pls
1162 2021-03-25T19:39:08  <sipa> hji!
1163 2021-03-25T19:39:19  <sipa> so we merged #20861
1164 2021-03-25T19:39:22  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20861 | BIP 350: Implement Bech32m and use it for v1+ segwit addresses by sipa · Pull Request #20861 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1165 2021-03-25T19:39:26  <wumpus> yes
1166 2021-03-25T19:39:30  <sipa> which adds send-to-bech32m support and related tests
1167 2021-03-25T19:39:51  <sipa> amending what address checksum is expected for v1+ native segwit addresses
1168 2021-03-25T19:40:06  <sipa> i think this is something that should be backported... it may not matter, depending on activation of course
1169 2021-03-25T19:40:13  <jeremyrubin> sipa: maybe backport anywhere taproot is getting backported + 1 version?
1170 2021-03-25T19:40:23  <wumpus> let's do that then
1171 2021-03-25T19:40:24  <jnewbery> I don't think #21472 is required. 0.19 is out of maintenance, and this isn't a critical fix. It'll be EOL in August: https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/#schedule
1172 2021-03-25T19:40:25  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21472 | BIP 350: Implement Bech32m and use it for v1+ segwit addresses (0.19 backport) by sipa · Pull Request #21472 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1173 2021-03-25T19:40:35  <jeremyrubin> I agree you should be able to pay addresses you see, even if you don't know how to create such an address
1174 2021-03-25T19:40:56  <sipa> but it would be unfortunate if adoption (once activated etc) is hampered by the fact that you can't send to it from stable bitcoin core releases
1175 2021-03-25T19:41:02  <sipa> i'm ok with 0.21 and 0.20
1176 2021-03-25T19:41:02  <luke-jr> 0.20 will be end-maint in Aug too
1177 2021-03-25T19:41:10  <wumpus> well if he already made a PR for it, then I don't see why not to backport
1178 2021-03-25T19:41:25  <sipa> also ok with just 0.21, if that's what we decide
1179 2021-03-25T19:41:27  <wumpus> *if* we are going to do another 0.19 release is another question of course
1180 2021-03-25T19:41:43  <jnewbery> I've reviewed 0.20 and 0.21. Both look good to me.
1181 2021-03-25T19:41:45  <sipa> i just opened backports as far back as they were nontrivial
1182 2021-03-25T19:42:01  <luke-jr> seems better to just limit to 0.21
1183 2021-03-25T19:42:14  <luke-jr> I don't think anyone plans to backport Taproot itself to 0.20?
1184 2021-03-25T19:42:34  <luke-jr> consensus code I mean
1185 2021-03-25T19:42:38  <achow101> luke-jr: you don't need taproot in order to make taproot outputs
1186 2021-03-25T19:42:40  <wumpus> luke-jr: that doesn't matter here, it's for sending to it
1187 2021-03-25T19:42:49  <wumpus> might backport one release further for that
1188 2021-03-25T19:43:00  <jeremyrubin> sipa: one question; if taproot doesn't activate can you still send to these addresses?
1189 2021-03-25T19:43:15  <luke-jr> achow101: but if you're doing economic stuff, you should be using a full node
1190 2021-03-25T19:43:17  <jeremyrubin> Might be kinda weird if you can pay to them before they activate
1191 2021-03-25T19:43:44  <jeremyrubin> (that's true for next-release as well as backport)
1192 2021-03-25T19:43:46  <sipa> jeremyrubin: being able to send to future addresses is pretty essential for smooth upgrading
1193 2021-03-25T19:44:13  <jeremyrubin> sipa: you could only enable sending to them from wallet iff it activates and height > minactiveheight
1194 2021-03-25T19:44:18  <wumpus> that would be weird but also, why would anyone do that
1195 2021-03-25T19:44:38  <jeremyrubin> not sure, many ways to lose money I spose
1196 2021-03-25T19:44:39  <aj> jeremyrubin: been able to send to them since 0.19 due to #15846
1197 2021-03-25T19:44:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15846 | [POLICY] Make sending to future native witness outputs standard by sipa · Pull Request #15846 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1198 2021-03-25T19:44:46  <achow101> jeremyrubin: that removes the upgrade advantage
1199 2021-03-25T19:44:46  <wumpus> it doesn't seem like something you can do by accident and there are tons of ways to lose coins if you really want
1200 2021-03-25T19:44:51  <jeremyrubin> aj: ack
1201 2021-03-25T19:44:54  <achow101> it's up to the receiver to decide whether he wants to lose money
1202 2021-03-25T19:45:28  <wumpus> so ok: 0.20 and 0.21?
1203 2021-03-25T19:45:31  <sipa> jeremyrubin: also #20165
1204 2021-03-25T19:45:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20165 | Only relay Taproot spends if next block has it active by sipa · Pull Request #20165 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1205 2021-03-25T19:45:37  <achow101> wumpus: ack
1206 2021-03-25T19:45:45  <sipa> jeremyrubin: but that's about *spending*, not sending to
1207 2021-03-25T19:45:56  <jeremyrubin> hmm
1208 2021-03-25T19:46:07  <wumpus> I think we need to move to next topic
1209 2021-03-25T19:46:19  <wumpus> #topic SpeedyTrial pull requests (jeremyrubin)
1210 2021-03-25T19:46:25  <luke-jr> O.o
1211 2021-03-25T19:46:45  <jeremyrubin> There are two open PRs
1212 2021-03-25T19:46:49  <wumpus> yes
1213 2021-03-25T19:46:57  <wumpus> didn't we go through this already
1214 2021-03-25T19:46:58  <jeremyrubin> there is not community consensus on either one
1215 2021-03-25T19:47:08  <jeremyrubin> IDK it's the topic again so I thought I'd summarize
1216 2021-03-25T19:47:20  <wumpus> well you proposed two topics I don't know why
1217 2021-03-25T19:47:27  <wumpus> if it's unnecessary let's move on
1218 2021-03-25T19:47:32  <BlueMatt> i think we covered this pretty fully
1219 2021-03-25T19:47:35  <michaelfolkson> I agree we need to break the deadlock on the two PRs asap. Spreading review effort over two PRs at this stage is not optimal
1220 2021-03-25T19:47:51  <sipa> michaelfolkson: and we're not going to do that here
1221 2021-03-25T19:47:53  <wumpus> #topic Windows code signing issues (achow101)
1222 2021-03-25T19:48:30  <achow101> The windows code signing key expired yesterday. I've been trying to renew it, but somehow in that process, comodo revoked the key. This is causing users who install 0.20 or 0.21 on windows to be unable to run the installer
1223 2021-03-25T19:48:53  <wumpus> uh oh
1224 2021-03-25T19:49:04  <aj> yikes
1225 2021-03-25T19:49:07  <wumpus> do you know why they revoked the key?
1226 2021-03-25T19:49:08  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
1227 2021-03-25T19:49:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sipa closed pull request #21472: BIP 350: Implement Bech32m and use it for v1+ segwit addresses (0.19 backport) (0.19...202103_bech32m_0.19) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21472
1228 2021-03-25T19:49:09  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
1229 2021-03-25T19:49:11  <achow101> comodo has also changed how they are verifying the Bitcoin Core Code Signing Association which is making it harder to get the renewed key. jonasschnelli_ is working on that, but it could be a while
1230 2021-03-25T19:49:22  <achow101> so it is possible that for the next release, we may not have a windows code signing key
1231 2021-03-25T19:49:33  <achow101> and also we probably need to re-sign 0.20 and 0.21
1232 2021-03-25T19:49:43  <wumpus> yes
1233 2021-03-25T19:49:45  <achow101> I have no idea why the key was revoked
1234 2021-03-25T19:50:01  <achow101> I emailed support and they haven't responded :/
1235 2021-03-25T19:50:10  <wumpus> is it possible to install on windows without a signing key?
1236 2021-03-25T19:50:16  <achow101> yes
1237 2021-03-25T19:50:21  <achow101> there is a non-codesigned installer
1238 2021-03-25T19:50:37  <luke-jr> but the codesigned one is a no-go?
1239 2021-03-25T19:50:42  <wumpus> can we get a key from a different provider if comodo becomes difficult?
1240 2021-03-25T19:51:09  <achow101> luke-jr: pretty much. this is what people see: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/issues/252
1241 2021-03-25T19:51:45  <wumpus> should I delete the codesigned one from the website? (or move it out of the way at least)
1242 2021-03-25T19:51:46  <achow101> wumpus: yes, but they are way more expensive ($3-400 vs $80 per yr) and probably have similar organization verification requirements
1243 2021-03-25T19:52:21  <wumpus> if it is no longer usable it makes no sense to host it, after all
1244 2021-03-25T19:52:32  <achow101> sure
1245 2021-03-25T19:52:43  <sipa> right
1246 2021-03-25T19:52:46  <jeremyrubin> achow101: does the non codesigned one make it harder to install
1247 2021-03-25T19:52:49  <sipa> perhaps move it to an archive section or so
1248 2021-03-25T19:52:58  <achow101> we have bitcoin-0.21.0-win64-setup-unsigned.exe from the gitian builds which is non-codesigned that we can upload
1249 2021-03-25T19:53:06  <luke-jr> good question - why are we even signing it on Windows? XD
1250 2021-03-25T19:53:11  <wumpus> sipa: yeah
1251 2021-03-25T19:53:16  <achow101> jeremyrubin: it gives a warning iirc
1252 2021-03-25T19:53:24  <achow101> but the warning can be ignored
1253 2021-03-25T19:53:36  <luke-jr> achow101: doesn't _any_ download?
1254 2021-03-25T19:53:39  <wumpus> the only annoyance is that I need to regenrate the SHA256SUMS.asc, and ideally the torrent too
1255 2021-03-25T19:53:46  <wumpus> oh can it be ignored?
1256 2021-03-25T19:53:48  <luke-jr> only difference IIRC was that signed just shows an author name
1257 2021-03-25T19:53:57  <emzy> does it make sense to have 2 signing certs just in case for problems like this?
1258 2021-03-25T19:54:07  <achow101> luke-jr: it says something about "untrusted" if it isn't code signed. I think that's just about it
1259 2021-03-25T19:54:10  <luke-jr> wumpus: maybe wait on the torrent until we have a full resolution?
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1261 2021-03-25T19:54:33  <luke-jr> emzy: doubt you can sign it twice
1262 2021-03-25T19:54:50  <jeremyrubin> FWIW; I don't think it makes sense to hold out on any releases that are ready to go based on this issue
1263 2021-03-25T19:54:56  <wumpus> the process is kind of a hassle so I'm not going to do this for all releases, but for the last 0.20.x and 0.21.x release sure
1264 2021-03-25T19:55:09  <sipa> jeremyrubin: agree, but we should also try to fix it going forward
1265 2021-03-25T19:55:24  <jamesob> (aside) maybe at some point we can stop doing Windows releases altogether and just recommend people run them through the graphical WSL subsystem (https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-graphical-apps-coming-to-windows-subsystem-for-linux/)
1266 2021-03-25T19:55:26  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: no one is speaking of holding up anything, and I agree
1267 2021-03-25T19:55:36  <jeremyrubin> last week it was :p
1268 2021-03-25T19:55:37  <luke-jr> jamesob: lol
1269 2021-03-25T19:56:04  <wumpus> jamesob: that's a completely different discusion (though a potentially interesting one but there is no time for that now :)
1270 2021-03-25T19:56:18  <achow101> I'll get a screenshot of the three different warnings and put them in the earlier issue
1271 2021-03-25T19:56:24  <jamesob> wumpus: yeah sorry for lobbing that grenade
1272 2021-03-25T19:56:35  <emzy> luke-jr: have a second backup cert for a second binary. That was my thinking, but it will double the work :(
1273 2021-03-25T19:56:36  <wumpus> in any case we need a windows installer that works that people can download
1274 2021-03-25T19:56:44  <luke-jr> jamesob: looks like it's Wayland - do we even support that?
1275 2021-03-25T19:56:52  <achow101> wumpus: the unsigned one is fine for that
1276 2021-03-25T19:56:56  <wumpus> luke-jr: no, the binary does not support wayland
1277 2021-03-25T19:57:05  <wumpus> luke-jr: self-built ones do
1278 2021-03-25T19:57:30  <wumpus> see #19950 wrt wayland
1279 2021-03-25T19:57:31  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19950 | [Linux] Add wayland support · Issue #19950 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1280 2021-03-25T19:57:38  <luke-jr> "it connects the graphical Linux applications via a Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) connection to the main Windows display"
1281 2021-03-25T19:57:42  <luke-jr> sounds ugly for end users
1282 2021-03-25T19:57:50  <wumpus> luke-jr: anyhow this is off topic now
1283 2021-03-25T19:57:54  <wumpus> achow101: ok
1284 2021-03-25T19:57:54  <luke-jr> sorry
1285 2021-03-25T19:58:01  <aj> was this the last topic?
1286 2021-03-25T19:58:11  *** jonatack_ <jonatack_!~jon@37.167.116.33> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1287 2021-03-25T19:58:21  *** BlueMatt <BlueMatt!~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt> has left #bitcoin-core-dev ("-> meetup. those with less strong views but views nonetheless should join taproot-activation meetings!")
1288 2021-03-25T19:58:30  <wumpus> aj: I think so! I didn't expect to get this far but hadn't noticed the speedytrial one was more or less duplicate
1289 2021-03-25T19:58:46  <aj> wumpus: great success!
1290 2021-03-25T19:58:48  <wumpus> #endmeeting
1291 2021-03-25T19:58:49  <jnewbery> speedymeeting
1292 2021-03-25T19:59:07  <jnewbery> thanks wumpus!
1293 2021-03-25T20:00:34  <jeremyrubin> it wasn't intended to be duplicate -- it does really help to break topics into smaller chunks so that you can build consensus on one part of the puzzle without needing the other
1294 2021-03-25T20:01:33  <sipa> jeremyrubin: fwiw, the reason why sending to future addresses needs to be supported (at least as a relay policy) is that otherwise you force wallets to keep up with it (e.g. say some service supports withdrawals, and does batching, ... one customer gives a future address and another gives a current address... batching them together both payments get stuck)
1295 2021-03-25T20:01:42  <dongcarl> achow101: Is https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/issues/252 where I should follow the codesigning discussions?
1296 2021-03-25T20:02:31  <jeremyrubin> sipa: yeah, noted. I think it's good as long as no one puts tools out to *generate* taproot addresses ahead of activation
1297 2021-03-25T20:03:00  <sipa> jeremyrubin: this i think was a snafu with bech32 that resulted in it actually failing (basically nobody supported sending to future addresses, because they *had* to: relay policy didn't allow it either)
1298 2021-03-25T20:03:02  <jeremyrubin> I could see there being confusion with "Taproot is locked in" and "Taproot is active"
1299 2021-03-25T20:03:19  <achow101> dongcarl: yes
1300 2021-03-25T20:03:43  <jeremyrubin> sipa: yeah I think in general you send to a bad address you pay the price is the best we can do
1301 2021-03-25T20:04:15  <sipa> but i think the combination of support relay of sending to: always; support relay of spending: only when rules are active
1302 2021-03-25T20:04:18  <sipa> is ideal
1303 2021-03-25T20:05:04  <jeremyrubin> yeah I agree because you can be tricked into relaying bad txs after activation
1304 2021-03-25T20:05:22  <jeremyrubin> so it makes sense to only relay spends you suspect you can fully validate
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1306 2021-03-25T20:06:51  <wumpus> jnewbery: yw!
1307 2021-03-25T20:07:28  <jeremyrubin> yw?
1308 2021-03-25T20:07:30  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: yes i understand your motivation for splitting it up, it just came as a bit of a shock just after the monster topic was concluded to see it come up again :)
1309 2021-03-25T20:08:02  <wumpus> in any case, let's not make it a meeting topiuc again until at least the PR has been decided
1310 2021-03-25T20:08:02  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: probably could have gone in reverse order
1311 2021-03-25T20:08:41  <jeremyrubin> I was hoping that in the meeting, w.r.t. PRs, we could have discussed the practicality of reviewing/merging/backporting either
1312 2021-03-25T20:08:51  <jeremyrubin> And if it fits in with the timeline being desired
1313 2021-03-25T20:08:59  <wumpus> I think we need to do that after a PR has been decided
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1315 2021-03-25T20:09:20  <wumpus> with such a tight schedule it is a really bad idea to spread the time and resources over two PRs here
1316 2021-03-25T20:09:36  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: I think the issue is that "people" have decided on a tight schedule
1317 2021-03-25T20:09:46  <jeremyrubin> that's my only preference for AJ's PR
1318 2021-03-25T20:09:55  <jeremyrubin> is if we are trying to meet that timeline or not
1319 2021-03-25T20:10:33  <aj> jeremyrubin: fwiw, 21377 cleanly backports currently
1320 2021-03-25T20:11:01  <jeremyrubin> aj: yep
1321 2021-03-25T20:11:04  <aj> jeremyrubin: (modulo 21489, which also cleanly backports)
1322 2021-03-25T20:12:30  <achow101> screenshots of the different prompts that appear for the windows installers: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/issues/252#issuecomment-807400048 The non-codesigned warning has gotten scarier.
1323 2021-03-25T20:12:42  <aj> should i manually add 21489 (which i labelled as needs-backport-0.21 already) to the 0.21 milestone? or just open a pr backporting it? or?
1324 2021-03-25T20:12:51  <aj> (it's needed whichever pr gets merged)
1325 2021-03-25T20:12:59  <sipa> #21489
1326 2021-03-25T20:13:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21489 | fuzz: cleanups for versionbits fuzzer by ajtowns · Pull Request #21489 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1327 2021-03-25T20:13:15  <sipa> aj: is the backport trivial/clean?
1328 2021-03-25T20:13:40  <wumpus> achow101: agree, and yes it seems ok for now
1329 2021-03-25T20:14:25  <aj> sipa: yes
1330 2021-03-25T20:16:53  <wumpus> at least its only a yellow warning
1331 2021-03-25T20:27:12  <luke-jr> achow101: bleh :/
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1337 2021-03-25T21:10:46  <wumpus> PSA: because of the windows signing key being revoked, i have for https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.21.0/ and https://bitcoincore.org/bin/bitcoin-core-0.20.1/ moved the -setup.exe to an "archived" directory, uploaded the setup-unsigned.exe instead, also created and signed a new SHA256SUMS.asc with the alternative exe in it
1338 2021-03-25T21:11:58  <wumpus> this should make it at least possible to still install while we resolve the signign key issues
1339 2021-03-25T21:27:04  <hebasto> jonasschnelli_: maybe `libxkbcommon-x11-0:i386` package for Linux32 build?
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1341 2021-03-25T21:27:24  <jonasschnelli> hebasto just saw that. Will add
1342 2021-03-25T21:27:45  <hebasto> jonasschnelli: thanks
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1352 2021-03-25T22:01:58  <harding> wumpus: that breaks the links on https://bitcoincore.org/en/download/ ; is it possible to use the same file name, or is that just too problematic?
1353 2021-03-25T22:02:22  <harding> (I can also change the link on the download page if you'd prefer that.)
1354 2021-03-25T22:05:21  <wumpus> harding: that is a good idea but I don't feel like doing the entire process (like regenerate SHA256SUMS.asc) again
1355 2021-03-25T22:05:32  <wumpus> let's just change the link
1356 2021-03-25T22:05:37  <harding> wumpus: will do, thanks.
1357 2021-03-25T22:06:09  <wumpus> also the -unsigned in the file name will likely alert people what to expect
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