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  4 2021-04-20T00:12:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/13d27b452d4b...67a359313f79
  5 2021-04-20T00:12:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f2f2541 Sebastian Falbesoner: remove executable flag for src/net_processing.cpp
  6 2021-04-20T00:12:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 67a3593 fanquake: Merge #21728: remove executable flag for src/net_processing.cpp
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  9 2021-04-20T00:12:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21728: remove executable flag for src/net_processing.cpp (master...2021-remove-exec-flag-from-net_processing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21728
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 23 2021-04-20T00:43:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 9 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/67a359313f79...a839303edc8a
 24 2021-04-20T00:43:31  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 70cdf67 Kiminuo: Move StripRedundantLastElementsOfPath before ArgsManager class.
 25 2021-04-20T00:43:31  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1add318 Kiminuo: Move GetDataDir(fNetSpecific) implementation to ArgsManager.
 26 2021-04-20T00:43:32  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1cb52ba Kiminuo: Modify "util_datadir" unit test to not use gArgs.
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 29 2021-04-20T00:43:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21244: Move GetDataDir to ArgsManager (master...feature/2021-02-get-data-dir-args) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21244
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 74 2021-04-20T03:40:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns closed pull request #21378: Convert taproot to flag day activation (master...202103-taproot-flag-day) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21378
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 76 2021-04-20T03:41:45  <aj> fanquake: ping re: #20353?
 77 2021-04-20T03:41:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20353 | configure: Support -fdebug-prefix-map and -fmacro-prefix-map by ajtowns · Pull Request #20353 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 78 2021-04-20T03:47:21  <fanquake> aj: good call. Will ACK/merge this arvo
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 90 2021-04-20T05:17:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a839303edc8a...de77cbc9d855
 91 2021-04-20T05:17:17  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fad4167 MarcoFalke: test: Check that no versionbits are re-used
 92 2021-04-20T05:17:18  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faec1e9 MarcoFalke: test: Address outstanding versionbits_test feedback
 93 2021-04-20T05:17:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa8eaee MarcoFalke: test: Run versionbits_sanity for all chains
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 96 2021-04-20T05:17:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21691: test: Check that no versionbits are re-used (master...2104-testVersionbits) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21691
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103 2021-04-20T05:38:49  <wumpus> is the merge bot broken?
104 2021-04-20T05:38:53  <wumpus> oh nm
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115 2021-04-20T06:59:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/de77cbc9d855...906ecb87c8c7
116 2021-04-20T06:59:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 84f3939 Pieter Wuille: Remove support for subdescriptors expanding to multiple scripts
117 2021-04-20T06:59:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a917478 Pieter Wuille: refactor: move population of out.scripts from ExpandHelper to MakeScripts
118 2021-04-20T06:59:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4441c6f Pieter Wuille: Make DescriptorImpl support multiple subscripts
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121 2021-04-20T07:00:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #21238: A few descriptor improvements to prepare for Taproot support (master...202102_descriptor_prepare_taproot) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21238
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123 2021-04-20T07:12:29  <MarcoFalke> looks like ci is red
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125 2021-04-20T07:12:54  <MarcoFalke> There was a silent merge conflict
126 2021-04-20T07:13:27  <MarcoFalke> script/descriptor.cpp:498:16: error: parameter 'script' not found in the function declaration [-Werror,-Wdocumentation]
127 2021-04-20T07:13:37  <wumpus> strange, i did build locally
128 2021-04-20T07:17:04  <MarcoFalke> Maybe Wdoc only works on a specific compiler?
129 2021-04-20T07:17:58  <MarcoFalke> wumpus: Obviously not blaming you. It is impossible to find all silent merge conflicts.
130 2021-04-20T07:18:37  <wumpus> my compiler (clang 13) does accept the flag, no idea if it does anything with it
131 2021-04-20T07:19:47  <wumpus> right it's just that i try to be careful to avoid them by always running the build + tests locally, but definitely cannot do so for every platform / compiler combo
132 2021-04-20T07:20:42  <wumpus> anyhow i'll do a PR...
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134 2021-04-20T07:30:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #21736: doc: Fix doxygen comment silent merge conflict in descriptor.cpp (master...2021-04-parameter-documentation) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21736
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140 2021-04-20T07:48:58  <wumpus> it looks like my compiler does have the warning enabled, it is just not fatal, i've had bad experiences with Werror in the past (due to divergence between compiler versions) but will try enabling --enable-suppress-external-warnings --enable-werror locally maybe it is better now
141 2021-04-20T07:52:13  <aj> wumpus: those options work for me fwiw
142 2021-04-20T07:53:55  <wumpus> aj: i don't doubt they work :) the problem is that the set of warnings very much differs between compilers, it is often that new gcc has some new warnings
143 2021-04-20T07:54:50  <wumpus> or clang for that matter (thinking of the locking annotation warnings)
144 2021-04-20T07:55:32  <aj> wumpus: yep
145 2021-04-20T07:55:42  <wumpus> so it is not a guarantee in any case, there might be local failures due to this that do not arise in the CI and the other way around
146 2021-04-20T07:55:45  <aj> wumpus i took the release cadence date stuff to be referring to 23.0 not 22.0 fwiw
147 2021-04-20T07:56:28  <wumpus> let's discuss that at the time we are planning the 23.0 date then, that will only be after the 22.0 release
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149 2021-04-20T07:56:36  <aj> wumpus: yeah
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152 2021-04-20T08:21:29  <wumpus> definitely agree with the principle that planning a release around xmas is a bad idea
153 2021-04-20T08:21:41  <wumpus> december tends to be a really quiet month in bitcoin dev
154 2021-04-20T08:26:37  <MarcoFalke> yeah, it might be good to aim for October (or earlier) as a release month, as November might often delay into December
155 2021-04-20T08:30:54  <MarcoFalke> Also branch-off right at the start of the new year might not be good either. Better wait till February (or later) to give reviewers some time to make up for the lack of review during December
156 2021-04-20T08:32:08  <wumpus> october seems really early for 0.23?
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158 2021-04-20T08:33:19  <wumpus> or do you mean for 22, that doesn't make sense to me either (postpone it by two months?)
159 2021-04-20T08:33:28  <MarcoFalke> Could aim for February 2022?
160 2021-04-20T08:33:34  <MarcoFalke> No need to change the 0.22 timeline
161 2021-04-20T08:33:44  <MarcoFalke> I think that is already set pretty much
162 2021-04-20T08:34:14  <wumpus> feb for 0.23 that would make sense (but as said, let's discuss 0.23 timeline when we get there)
163 2021-04-20T08:35:19  <MarcoFalke> sure, just wanted to mention that 0.22+6 months collides with December ;)
164 2021-04-20T08:36:05  <fanquake> yea -Wdocumentation requires --enable-suppress-external-warnings to be enabled
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166 2021-04-20T08:42:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/906ecb87c8c7...572b36d4ff99
167 2021-04-20T08:42:47  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e5faec6 W. J. van der Laan: doc: Fix doxygen comment silent merge conflict in descriptor.cpp
168 2021-04-20T08:42:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 572b36d MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#21736: doc: Fix doxygen comment silent merge conflic...
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171 2021-04-20T08:43:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21736: doc: Fix doxygen comment silent merge conflict in descriptor.cpp (master...2021-04-parameter-documentation) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21736
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173 2021-04-20T08:45:02  <MarcoFalke> reset all failed ci builds from the last two hours
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175 2021-04-20T08:47:14  <wumpus> harding: your taproot activation write-up seems very clear to me, i'll leave it on the wiki for a few days so people can make corrections if they think that is necessary, then add it to the release notes on the 0.21 branch
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188 2021-04-20T10:19:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #19213: util: Get rid of RecursiveMutex in Get{Blocks,Data}Dir (master...200608-path-mx) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19213
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193 2021-04-20T10:47:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21738: test: Use clang-12 for ASAN, Add missing suppression (master...2104-asan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21738
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201 2021-04-20T11:13:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/572b36d4ff99...30a86bb814e3
202 2021-04-20T11:13:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master de17d24 dplusplus1024: Re-add command to install vcpkg
203 2021-04-20T11:13:36  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 30a86bb MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#21733: build: Re-add command to install vcpkg
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206 2021-04-20T11:13:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21733: build: Re-add command to install vcpkg (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21733
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217 2021-04-20T12:00:52  <ShapeShifter499> hi
218 2021-04-20T12:01:07  <ShapeShifter499> so I have a question about the client.  I'm on linux and I'm wondering does it matter what Berkeley Database Bitcoin is compiled against if I want to recover old wallets?
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222 2021-04-20T12:37:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/30a86bb814e3...018045347110
223 2021-04-20T12:37:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master db4d2c2 Jon Atack: cli: create AddrinfoRequestHandler class
224 2021-04-20T12:37:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5056a37 Jon Atack: cli: add -addrinfo command
225 2021-04-20T12:37:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bb85cbc Jon Atack: doc: add cli -addrinfo release note
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228 2021-04-20T12:37:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #21595: cli: create -addrinfo (master...addressinfo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21595
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233 2021-04-20T12:42:06  <wumpus> hebasto: sorry for only noticing this now in #21694 btw while i commented on the gitignore before :)
234 2021-04-20T12:42:08  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21694 | build: Use XLIFF file to provide more context to Transifex translators by hebasto · Pull Request #21694 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
235 2021-04-20T12:43:10  <hebasto> wumpus: does this mean that src/qt/locale/bitcoin_en.xlf should be a part of the repo?
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240 2021-04-20T13:02:00  <wumpus> hebasto: if it is what you want transifex to read, yes
241 2021-04-20T13:02:47  <hebasto> wumpus: thanks for explanation
242 2021-04-20T13:04:13  <wumpus> e.g. the auto-update URL for 0.21.x right now in the transifex interface is : https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/master/src/qt/locale/bitcoin_en.ts
243 2021-04-20T13:04:34  <wumpus> oh i should change that to the branch
244 2021-04-20T13:06:21  <wumpus> thanks for making me check, it is not good if it keeps updating from master and the translations diverge
245 2021-04-20T13:07:35  <hebasto> wumpus: nice that everything is ok now
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248 2021-04-20T13:38:51  <wumpus> btw; do we still need bitcoin_en.ts *at all* now? i think its only goal was to provide it to transifex? or is it used for other things as well?
249 2021-04-20T13:40:08  <wumpus> hmm i guess it is embedded in the binary but is effectively a no-op]
250 2021-04-20T13:43:15  <hebasto> is it used to generate `bitcoin_en.qm` for `QObject::tr()`?
251 2021-04-20T13:45:02  <hebasto> yes. in en_US locale it is no-op :)
252 2021-04-20T13:45:17  <wumpus> that seems a very useless thing to do :) but sure it might anyway
253 2021-04-20T13:46:18  <wumpus> but yeah, let's leave it like that for this PR, no need to touch that
254 2021-04-20T13:46:34  <hebasto> ok
255 2021-04-20T13:50:49  <wumpus> i hope we'll still get .ts translations back from transifex with tx pull
256 2021-04-20T13:51:15  <hebasto> we'll find out :)
257 2021-04-20T13:51:15  <wumpus> if not the maintainer-tools/update-translations.py script will need to convert too
258 2021-04-20T13:52:34  <wumpus> we'll find out for 22.0 i suppose (no good reason to backport this)
259 2021-04-20T13:53:15  <hebasto> agree
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267 2021-04-20T14:11:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/018045347110...90e0faaa442b
268 2021-04-20T14:11:03  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2045e4c Hennadii Stepanov: build: Use XLIFF file to provide more context to Transifex translators
269 2021-04-20T14:11:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f959b75 Hennadii Stepanov: build: Add Qt lconvert tool to depends
270 2021-04-20T14:11:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 99686b6 Hennadii Stepanov: qt [experimental]: Add a translation comment and a disambiguation string
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273 2021-04-20T14:11:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #21694: build: Use XLIFF file to provide more context to Transifex translators (master...210415-xliff) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21694
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278 2021-04-20T14:29:43  <wumpus> btw we might want to do future translation-related changes in the gui repository
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281 2021-04-20T14:32:01  <hebasto> because they will touch the qt/ directory only?
282 2021-04-20T14:32:44  <wumpus> yes, and because translation is only done for the GUI
283 2021-04-20T14:34:09  <wumpus> i guess the exception is messages from bitcoind that get translated as well, but i mean changes that only affect src/qt sources yes
284 2021-04-20T14:35:49  <hebasto> #21463, for example, is mixed qt and non-qt
285 2021-04-20T14:35:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21463 | doc: Address feedback from Transifex translator community by hebasto · Pull Request #21463 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
286 2021-04-20T14:45:01  <wumpus> yes, agree
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291 2021-04-20T15:01:14  <jeremyrubin> Would anyone be opposed to adding an address type for OP_RETURN?
292 2021-04-20T15:01:54  <jeremyrubin> I don't think they should be universally available, but it can be kind of annoying working in generic code that you can't get an address for an OP_RETURN output
293 2021-04-20T15:04:08  <jeremyrubin> I guess this is better suited for mailing list...
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298 2021-04-20T15:13:02  <luke-jr> addresses define a recipient. OP_RETURN doesn't have a recipient.
299 2021-04-20T15:13:28  <jeremyrubin> then why can I pay a P2SH OP_RETURN and that has an address?
300 2021-04-20T15:13:53  <luke-jr> furthermore, OP_RETURN should not be used except to represent something else more specific; that something else perhaps might need an address, which would then be impeded by a generic OP_RETURN address by folks who think there should only be one possible address per script
301 2021-04-20T15:14:09  <luke-jr> there is no such thign as a P2SH OP_RETURN
302 2021-04-20T15:14:18  <jeremyrubin> Howso?
303 2021-04-20T15:14:28  <jeremyrubin> i can create a p2sh op_return quite easily
304 2021-04-20T15:14:45  <luke-jr> OP_RETURN as a transaction type is defined as a scriptPK that begins with OP_RETURN
305 2021-04-20T15:15:11  <jeremyrubin> That's beside the point
306 2021-04-20T15:15:19  <jeremyrubin> [4/20/21 08:13] <luke-jr> addresses define a recipient. OP_RETURN doesn't have a recipient.
307 2021-04-20T15:15:24  <luke-jr> you can't prove on-chain that a P2SH contains an OP_RETURN, and such an output will enter the database
308 2021-04-20T15:15:25  <belcher> you could create it but why would you? op_return is used for embedding data but if that data is hashed behind a p2sh then it cant even do that(?)
309 2021-04-20T15:15:44  <luke-jr> belcher: it's supposed to only be used for embedding hashes; one extra layer doesn't impede that
310 2021-04-20T15:15:55  <luke-jr> but the P2SH does impede being able to prune it
311 2021-04-20T15:16:24  <jeremyrubin> i'm less worried about the pay-to support, more worried about the parsing of data generically
312 2021-04-20T15:16:33  <pinheadmz> jeremyrubin could propose to define a segwit version `16` (for example) that decodes to <OP_RETURN> <data>
313 2021-04-20T15:16:38  <luke-jr> and prunability is what distinguishes OP_RETURN from other unspendable outputs
314 2021-04-20T15:17:09  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: it sounds like your undefined use case really ought to use raw scripts, not addresses
315 2021-04-20T15:17:15  <jeremyrubin> not really
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317 2021-04-20T15:17:38  <jeremyrubin> I want to split out "is this something we know about" or "is this some custom thing entirely"
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319 2021-04-20T15:17:53  <luke-jr> there's no distinction in this case
320 2021-04-20T15:18:00  <luke-jr> OP_RETURN is some custom thing entirely
321 2021-04-20T15:18:13  <jeremyrubin> Every p2sh is also some custom thing
322 2021-04-20T15:18:37  <jeremyrubin> because a p2sh can contain an OP_RETURN <blah>
323 2021-04-20T15:18:42  <luke-jr> beside the point
324 2021-04-20T15:18:46  <jeremyrubin> That is the point
325 2021-04-20T15:19:15  <luke-jr> anyway, I think I've gone over the reasons not to do it afaik.
326 2021-04-20T15:19:30  <jeremyrubin> If i can try to explain it back...
327 2021-04-20T15:20:06  <jeremyrubin> We should only have addresses or descriptors for things we know exactly what they are, and also for things that represent something that is not only payable but also potentially spendable.
328 2021-04-20T15:21:01  <jeremyrubin> OP_RETURN, being unspendable and usually proprietary in purpose, should not have an address
329 2021-04-20T15:22:15  <jeremyrubin> Is that a correct restatement of your concern?
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336 2021-04-20T15:45:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dongcarl closed pull request #18963: [WIP] rebase: Call ProcessNewBlock() asynchronously (master...2020-05-async-pnb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18963
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355 2021-04-20T17:10:14  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/90e0faaa442b...bca00942ed27
356 2021-04-20T17:10:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f02ca7a Aaron Clauson: Update msvc build to use Qt5.12.10 binaries.
357 2021-04-20T17:10:15  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bca0094 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#21731: Update msvc build to use Qt5.12.10 binaries.
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360 2021-04-20T17:11:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21731: Update msvc build to use Qt5.12.10 binaries. (master...msvc_qt5.12.10) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21731
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362 2021-04-20T17:20:58  <jnewbery> Hi folks. Reminder that we have a p2p irc meeting in about 3.5 hours. Feel free to share your priorities here: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/P2P-Current-Priorities and add suggested topics here: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/P2P-IRC-meetings
363 2021-04-20T17:21:15  <jnewbery> We currently have two suggested topics: Reduce addr blackholes (PR 21528) (Amiti)
364 2021-04-20T17:21:24  <jnewbery> Moving forward with asmap (gleb)
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366 2021-04-20T17:36:58  <jeremyrubin> Out of curiosity; is it possible to construct a Script as hex which is also an address?
367 2021-04-20T17:37:16  <jeremyrubin> AFAIK, in binary it should be possible, but not as hex
368 2021-04-20T17:44:01  <hebasto> wumpus: re "oh i should change that to the branch" -- I received Transifex notification about updated content. Is this it?
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399 2021-04-20T20:14:18  <ariard> jnewbery: yeah would like to propose "irc meetings on better L2s onchain support" as a topic but don't have the rights on wiki :/
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401 2021-04-20T20:20:04  <bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #263: Revamp context menus (master...210330-context) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/263
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404 2021-04-20T20:20:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/bca00942ed27...f385ad765174
405 2021-04-20T20:20:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1398a65 Hennadii Stepanov: qt, refactor: Make AddressBookPage::deleteAction a local variable
406 2021-04-20T20:20:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 963e120 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Drop menu separator that separates nothing
407 2021-04-20T20:20:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7931175 Hennadii Stepanov: qt: Do not assign Alt+<KEY> shortcuts to context menu actions
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410 2021-04-20T20:39:27  <amiti> ariard: added it for you
411 2021-04-20T20:43:08  <ariard> amiti: thanks!
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416 2021-04-20T21:01:33  <jnewbery> #startmeeting
417 2021-04-20T21:01:33  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Tue Apr 20 21:01:33 2021 UTC.  The chair is jnewbery. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
418 2021-04-20T21:01:33  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
419 2021-04-20T21:01:36  <amiti> hi
420 2021-04-20T21:01:39  <ajonas> hi
421 2021-04-20T21:01:45  <jnewbery> hi folks
422 2021-04-20T21:01:52  <ariard> hi
423 2021-04-20T21:01:54  <gleb> Hi
424 2021-04-20T21:01:56  <lightlike> hi
425 2021-04-20T21:02:16  <jnewbery> As a reminder, everyone is free to share their p2p priorities here: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/P2P-Current-Priorities
426 2021-04-20T21:02:22  <promag> hi
427 2021-04-20T21:02:39  <jnewbery> We also have three proposed topics for today's meeting:  https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/P2P-IRC-meetings#20-apr-2021
428 2021-04-20T21:02:43  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20 | JSON-RPC callback · Issue #20 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
429 2021-04-20T21:02:45  <jnewbery> - Reduce addr blackholes (PR 21528) (Amiti)
430 2021-04-20T21:02:49  <jnewbery> - Moving forward with asmap (gleb)
431 2021-04-20T21:02:54  <jnewbery> - irc meetings on better L2s onchain support (ariard)
432 2021-04-20T21:03:06  <jnewbery> Does anyone have any other proposed topics to add?
433 2021-04-20T21:04:09  <jnewbery> oops, forgot
434 2021-04-20T21:04:20  <jnewbery> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
435 2021-04-20T21:04:26  <jnewbery> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
436 2021-04-20T21:04:44  <jnewbery> alright, let's get into the first topic
437 2021-04-20T21:04:57  <jnewbery> #topic Reduce addr blackholes (amiti)
438 2021-04-20T21:04:58  <core-meetingbot> topic: Reduce addr blackholes (amiti)
439 2021-04-20T21:05:02  <amiti> hi!
440 2021-04-20T21:05:15  <amiti> I want to discuss #21528
441 2021-04-20T21:05:17  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21528 | [p2p] Reduce addr blackholes by amitiuttarwar · Pull Request #21528 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
442 2021-04-20T21:05:37  <amiti> I've mentioned it in a few different places, but I'll start with an overview of goals & motivation
443 2021-04-20T21:05:59  <amiti> The goal is to reduce addr blackholes- aka relaying self advertisements to peers who are unlikely to continue relaying it to the network. Doing so would be a standalone improvement for addr propagation, and also, in my opinion, help with the disabletx project.
444 2021-04-20T21:06:23  <amiti> The PR serves as a proof of concept for how this can be implemented in Bitcoin Core, but is currently in a draft because I have been trying to build confidence that this wouldn’t harm other software on the network.
445 2021-04-20T21:06:42  <amiti> I wrote to the mailing list: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-April/018784.html, and have not gotten any responses there
446 2021-04-20T21:07:03  <amiti> I’ve also looked at the implementations of every other client I’ve heard of =P and been recording that here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21528#issuecomment-809906430
447 2021-04-20T21:07:36  <amiti> looks like almost all other clients are definitely ok. the only one I was very confused about is bitcore, so I'm hoping someone will respond to the issue I opened
448 2021-04-20T21:08:07  <amiti> so, my main question for today is- do people think its reasonable for me to move forward with these changes? aka bring the PR into a "ready for review" state ?
449 2021-04-20T21:08:19  <ariard> does it document bitcoinj, it's still maintained afaik?
450 2021-04-20T21:08:23  <gleb> It looks like the stuff I attempted to do around a year ago, and at the time I also concluded it won't hurt other software.
451 2021-04-20T21:08:47  <amiti> bitcoinj is not on the list. will look & add
452 2021-04-20T21:08:48  <jnewbery> Yes, concept ACK
453 2021-04-20T21:08:54  <amiti> gleb: what did you attempt?
454 2021-04-20T21:09:35  <amiti> oh, another link is to a previous bitcoin-dev meeting where we discussed: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/log-2021-03-25.html#l-954
455 2021-04-20T21:09:50  <gleb> amiti: stop forwarding addr to nodes when it's useless.
456 2021-04-20T21:10:19  <amiti> gleb: what did you try? did you PR?
457 2021-04-20T21:10:21  <ariard> imo that's okay to move "ready for review", if no one yells on the ml and main bitcoin libraries are behaving like core
458 2021-04-20T21:10:58  <gleb> amiti: I had a PR #17194, a core meeting discussion and several ML posts.
459 2021-04-20T21:11:01  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17194 | p2p: Avoid forwarding ADDR messages to SPV nodes by naumenkogs · Pull Request #17194 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
460 2021-04-20T21:11:15  <amiti> gleb: thanks! I didn't realize :)
461 2021-04-20T21:11:18  <gleb> The PR is only covers a subset of stuff I was suggesting
462 2021-04-20T21:12:14  <gleb> I'll take a look and probably close mine, in case your work auguments it.
463 2021-04-20T21:12:24  <amiti> cool, I'll check it out
464 2021-04-20T21:12:29  <sipa> amiti: where did you land on sending/nonsending to non-relay peers? i remember you had some comments for sdaftuar_
465 2021-04-20T21:12:32  <sipa> *from
466 2021-04-20T21:13:07  <jnewbery> gleb: your PR disables addr relay based on the service bits sent by the peer. amiti's enables addr relay based on previous addr/getaddr messages received from the peer
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468 2021-04-20T21:13:30  <amiti> I'm still exploring the approach of not sending to non-relay peers
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470 2021-04-20T21:14:40  <amiti> sdaftuar expressed concern that if there is other software that doesn't send addr/getaddr messages but are relying on addr messages to discover peers, this change could make them vulnerable to a poor addrman / eclipse attacks
471 2021-04-20T21:14:40  <sipa> but that's what the PR does?
472 2021-04-20T21:14:53  <amiti> sipa: what?
473 2021-04-20T21:15:07  <lightlike> I think an important difference is that the new PR would prevent sending to peers for whom we are their block-relay-only peer.
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475 2021-04-20T21:15:32  <sipa> amiti: not announcing to (assumed to be) non-relaying peers
476 2021-04-20T21:15:43  <amiti> sipa: correct
477 2021-04-20T21:15:52  <amiti> sipa: sorry, I don't understand your question
478 2021-04-20T21:16:08  <sipa> amiti: just wanted to make sure i was up to date on the approach
479 2021-04-20T21:16:22  <jnewbery> sipa: does "non-relaying peers" = "inbound block-relay-only peers" ?
480 2021-04-20T21:17:23  <amiti> some context for the group: an alternative approach would be to identify "potential blackholes" and then add redundancy if those are selected. eg if you intend to relay to 2 peers but select a "potential blackhole", additionally relay to another peer
481 2021-04-20T21:17:36  <sipa> jnewbery: an alternative approach would be still sending addr messages to everyone, but treat some subset as non-relaying (and thus not counting towards the 1 or 2 relay slots)
482 2021-04-20T21:17:46  <jnewbery> sipa: ah. Got it. Thanks
483 2021-04-20T21:18:00  <sipa> jnewbery: which would less risky for the network, but in my opinion weakly exploitable
484 2021-04-20T21:18:33  <jnewbery> 'for the network' seems vague
485 2021-04-20T21:18:42  <sipa> if we're confident this won't break anything, the current approach has my preference
486 2021-04-20T21:18:57  <amiti> that is also my preference :)
487 2021-04-20T21:19:24  <jnewbery> it'd be less risky for peers that want to receive addrs but don't ask for addrs, or am I missing some transitive behaviour?
488 2021-04-20T21:19:24  <sipa> jnewbery: software that doesn't getaddr or send addrs, but still relies on receiving addresses
489 2021-04-20T21:19:55  <sipa> jnewbery: i don't expect such software to exist, but it's also hard to be certain
490 2021-04-20T21:19:59  <jnewbery> sipa: yep, that's my understanding
491 2021-04-20T21:20:11  <amiti> I don't see much indication we will break things. I'll check bitcoinj and hope to hear back from bitcore, but beyond that I don't think there's much else I can do from my end
492 2021-04-20T21:20:19  <sipa> ok
493 2021-04-20T21:20:36  <jnewbery> I think amiti is doing a good job at analyzing the possible risk here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21528#issuecomment-809906430
494 2021-04-20T21:20:38  <ariard> at least ml + libraries inquiry let's build confidence, do we have other methods to improve such opinion?
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496 2021-04-20T21:21:02  <sipa> no, there is only so much we can do
497 2021-04-20T21:21:35  <jnewbery> Great. Anything else on that, or shall we move to next topic?
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499 2021-04-20T21:21:45  <amiti> just to conclude -
500 2021-04-20T21:21:56  <amiti> I'll continue moving forward. if anyone has outstanding concerns, please let me know :)
501 2021-04-20T21:22:03  <amiti> thanks!
502 2021-04-20T21:22:22  <jnewbery> amiti: great. Thank you!
503 2021-04-20T21:22:28  <jnewbery> #topic Moving forward with asmap (gleb)
504 2021-04-20T21:22:28  <core-meetingbot> topic: Moving forward with asmap (gleb)
505 2021-04-20T21:22:34  <gleb> We (me and sipa) want to move asmap forward and the main question is how to enable it by default. So far one priority is to help the maintainer to keep track of the BGP topology state updates.
506 2021-04-20T21:22:48  <gleb> Basically, the maintainer would have to re-generate the compressed BGP topology map (asmap) for distribution and make sure it’s valid.
507 2021-04-20T21:23:12  <gleb> There’s also testing of the existing tools and code in the Core, feel free to help:
508 2021-04-20T21:23:12  <gleb> https://blog.bitmex.com/call-to-action-testing-and-improving-asmap/
509 2021-04-20T21:23:23  <gleb> Once these tools are ready and stable, we will be able to enable it by default I think. Let me know if you have any thoughts or suggestions for other TODO to make progress here, otherwise I’m done.
510 2021-04-20T21:24:10  <ariard> Who is maintainer here ? bitcoin core or asmap tooling one?
511 2021-04-20T21:24:28  <gleb> Bitcoin Core maintainers, every core release probably should get a new asmap file
512 2021-04-20T21:24:47  <gleb> To maintain the best p2p robustness of the nodes.
513 2021-04-20T21:24:50  <jeremyrubin> hi
514 2021-04-20T21:25:25  <sipa> one critical component i think is tooling to produce human-readable diffs between asmap files
515 2021-04-20T21:25:43  <sipa> because they can't be deterministically produced
516 2021-04-20T21:26:10  <gleb> Yeah, everyone should be able to check the diff between the two easily.
517 2021-04-20T21:27:07  <ariard> so it's about finishing asmap-rs as a functional bitcoin-asmap ?
518 2021-04-20T21:27:27  <gleb> I think sipa still doesn't like rust, so we might end up using smething different...
519 2021-04-20T21:28:03  <gleb> But basically yes, improving the tools.
520 2021-04-20T21:28:28  <ariard> i think language choice is ultimately decided by who is maintaining the tool :p
521 2021-04-20T21:29:09  <sipa> i certainly don't mind having good tooling in another language than one i'm familiar with, if it"s maintained
522 2021-04-20T21:30:21  <gleb> I think I can commit to maintaining asmap-rs, but then, should we also translate sipa/asmap (compression part) into it?
523 2021-04-20T21:30:31  <gleb> No need to answer now, I'll think about it after the meeting.
524 2021-04-20T21:31:00  <ariard> gleb: nah you can link *.c/*.cpp in rust, we can talk about it in rust-bitcoin if you wanna
525 2021-04-20T21:31:23  <gleb> alright, i'll check how nasty that is :)
526 2021-04-20T21:32:33  <jnewbery> ariard: I don't think that's the problem. The question seems to be whether we should add some dependency on maintaining a rust tool to our release process.
527 2021-04-20T21:32:51  <sipa> the only thing we neef reusable or usable from within Bitcoin Core is decoding/querying support, and we have that
528 2021-04-20T21:33:36  <sipa> sure, it'd be nice if some tool shipped with core and possibly built from shared sources could do encoding too and other things, but i don't think that's a critical requirement
529 2021-04-20T21:33:37  <ariard> jnewbery: yes as i'm planning to have rust dependency for altnet, if you think that's a real issue to have dependency in rust, let's have a discussion during main meeting?
530 2021-04-20T21:33:49  <ariard> i think it was a subject a year ago
531 2021-04-20T21:33:56  <sipa> those things just need to be available and usable
532 2021-04-20T21:34:55  <jnewbery> ok, anything else on this topic, or move on?
533 2021-04-20T21:35:04  <gleb> i think we can move on
534 2021-04-20T21:35:09  <sipa> yeah
535 2021-04-20T21:35:34  <jnewbery> #topic irc meetings on better L2s onchain support (ariard)
536 2021-04-20T21:35:34  <core-meetingbot> topic: irc meetings on better L2s onchain support (ariard)
537 2021-04-20T21:35:39  <ariard> hi!
538 2021-04-20T21:36:18  <ariard> it has been a recurring topic among LN devs how to improve second-layer protocol layer by the base layer
539 2021-04-20T21:36:28  <glozow> hi
540 2021-04-20T21:36:36  <ariard> as current tx-relay and fee-bumping aren't really accurate
541 2021-04-20T21:37:11  <ariard> we have the idea last year to do a share meeting between ln/core dev in 2021, but it doesn't seem it's going to be a thing even this year
542 2021-04-20T21:37:44  <ariard> so instead, i'm working on setting up a bunch of  irc meeting to talk about stuff like dust, full-rbf, package relay, standardness, coordinated security disclosures
543 2021-04-20T21:38:01  <ariard> started a new repo about problem space there : https://github.com/ariard/L2-zoology
544 2021-04-20T21:38:19  <ariard> and will do an announcement on the ml latter this week about process
545 2021-04-20T21:38:35  <ariard> feel free to contribute if you're interested by those topics :)
546 2021-04-20T21:39:02  <gleb> ariard: i think to motivate people to come, you (or any coordinator) should be really clear on how this is going to be useful, what are the possible useful outcomes, and why this stuff is blocker for L2 protocols.
547 2021-04-20T21:39:21  <sipa> i think it would be useful if this was more concrete
548 2021-04-20T21:39:49  <ariard> gleb: yes how this is going to be useful is described in threats/ performance/ section of new repo, possible useful outcomes are changes like full-rbf or package-relay
549 2021-04-20T21:39:59  <ariard> but sure we'll make this really clear in ml post
550 2021-04-20T21:40:26  <glozow> i'd be interested in seeing some simulations of attacks
551 2021-04-20T21:41:16  <sipa> people (ariard in particular) oftrn brings up issues of unreliability or certain lack of guarantees offered by the p2p protocol and its current implementations, but it's hard to discuss thst in general as there simply can't be any guarantees really, and other layers need to be aware of that... bit that doesn't mean we can't have useful discussions about specific features or so
552 2021-04-20T21:41:19  <ariard> glozow: yes we can try them on signet or mainet, main issue is having a realistic mempool, with sudden spikes
553 2021-04-20T21:42:09  <sipa> so it would be much more interesting to me at least to discuss specific features or proposals for the p2p protocol
554 2021-04-20T21:42:25  <ariard> sipa: i know this non-reliability point would  be the starter point for such irc meetings
555 2021-04-20T21:42:31  <sipa> rather than "fee bumping is insufficient"
556 2021-04-20T21:42:59  <ariard> like there is quite a divide among L1 and L2 devs, and afaik matt or rusty I'm leaning toward more reliability expectations
557 2021-04-20T21:43:17  <ariard> sipa: see rusty point here : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/13283#issuecomment-398654468
558 2021-04-20T21:43:57  <ariard> sipa: ultimately if we release something like package relay we have a question on the L2-side, is how much stability we can expect of such mechanism
559 2021-04-20T21:44:10  <sipa> ariard: yeah the vbyte thing wasn't done as well as it could have been
560 2021-04-20T21:44:27  <sipa> ariard: you can't expect transactions to be relayed, period
561 2021-04-20T21:44:53  <sipa> they're likely to be, and we can discuss what will work in non-adverserial settings likely
562 2021-04-20T21:45:05  <ariard> sipa: i agree, the best you can hope is an economic compatible tx-relay policy widely deployed on the network like bip125
563 2021-04-20T21:45:51  <sipa> i'm afraid that economic compatibility is very hard without something like partial blocks
564 2021-04-20T21:46:21  <sipa> because network bandwidth costs are ultimately in contradiction with always relaying the economically optimal final state
565 2021-04-20T21:46:27  <ariard> sipa: by stability I didn't mean "every-full-node on the network must support it" more Core devs are not going to deprecate future or introduce api change break without some release process
566 2021-04-20T21:46:38  <ariard> sipa: i don't know about partial blocks?
567 2021-04-20T21:46:41  <sipa> oh, certainly
568 2021-04-20T21:46:41  <glozow> er, what does economic compatible tx relay mean?
569 2021-04-20T21:47:05  <sipa> glozow: say a tx is bumped by 1 satoshi in fee
570 2021-04-20T21:47:12  <ariard> glozow: let's define better as incentive-compatible, apply this policy will increase your mempool feerate
571 2021-04-20T21:48:09  <sipa> it won't get relayed by bitcoin core, because it's below the marginal feerate (the cost of relaying over the network is considered larger than what it's paying extra
572 2021-04-20T21:48:20  <jnewbery> ariard: I don't think that's even it. incentive-compatible would mean that this policy increases the total fee of the top block's worth of transactions in your mempool
573 2021-04-20T21:49:02  <sipa> glozow: but it is economically still better for miners to get that transaction; miner want it, but the network has no incentive to relay it
574 2021-04-20T21:49:24  <sipa> that's a conflict, and the only general solution for it i know of is partial blocks
575 2021-04-20T21:49:53  <ariard> jnewbery: i think accepting higher-feerate replacement transaction increase the odds to mine a higher fee block in the future?
576 2021-04-20T21:50:10  <amiti> what is the goal from today's discussion?
577 2021-04-20T21:50:18  <sipa> where miners broadcast partial solutions to PoW over the network (say at 1/10th the difficulty) to prove to the network "there is likely a significant portion of PoW working on this block"
578 2021-04-20T21:50:39  <sipa> that would provide a natural incentive to switch mempools to the contents of such a blocm
579 2021-04-20T21:50:40  <glozow> sipa: i see, thank you
580 2021-04-20T21:51:20  <jnewbery> ariard: that's not incentive compatible for a miner. They only care about the contents of the next block.
581 2021-04-20T21:51:21  <ariard> amiti: getting the feedbacks of folks here if they would like to participate to such meetings, once we have a clear scope :)
582 2021-04-20T21:52:09  <glozow> oh cool, similar to like mining pool partial solutions for reward shares
583 2021-04-20T21:52:29  <jnewbery> ariard: when are you planning to do this irc meeting?
584 2021-04-20T21:52:33  <glozow> like broadcasting "this is the block i'm working on" before finding the solution
585 2021-04-20T21:52:40  <sipa> glozow: indeed
586 2021-04-20T21:53:08  <ariard> jnewbery: depends of your miner model? even if they loss the race to mine next block, they are still willingly to optimize fee of following blocks
587 2021-04-20T21:53:14  <jnewbery> any final topics before we wrap up?
588 2021-04-20T21:53:25  <ariard> jnewbery: end of may/june
589 2021-04-20T21:53:35  <jnewbery> ariard: thanks!
590 2021-04-20T21:53:47  <ariard> i'm done, thanks for your feedbacks :)
591 2021-04-20T21:53:48  <sipa> glozow: and partial PoW means a natural rate limit for such partial blovks
592 2021-04-20T21:54:00  <glozow> ariard: I'm interested in such a meeting if you're able to coordinate a time
593 2021-04-20T21:54:01  <glozow> apart from that, I'll keep an eye on the docs in your repo, and am interested in turning some of them into functional tests or simulations for a more concrete measure of the attacks
594 2021-04-20T21:54:27  <ariard> glozow: coool let me get back to you to do simulation of attacks!
595 2021-04-20T21:54:51  <amiti> I'd be happy to participate if there was a clear scope, agenda & goals. I agree with sipa that its hard to make much progress in a purely abstract conversation.
596 2021-04-20T21:55:07  <amiti> (around p2p guarantees)
597 2021-04-20T21:55:21  <darosior> ariard: (re-mentioning here) happy to participate too
598 2021-04-20T21:55:24  <ariard> amiti: that's the reason of braindumping in a repo to avoid abstract conversation (and working on attacks simulation)
599 2021-04-20T21:55:35  <amiti> cool!
600 2021-04-20T21:56:06  <jnewbery> seems like that's all. Thanks everyone!
601 2021-04-20T21:56:09  <jnewbery> #endmeeting
602 2021-04-20T21:56:09  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
603 2021-04-20T21:56:09  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Tue Apr 20 21:56:09 2021 UTC.
604 2021-04-20T21:56:09  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-04-20-21.01.moin.txt
605 2021-04-20T21:56:19  <glozow> thanks jnewbery
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610 2021-04-20T22:08:13  <bitcoin-git> [gui] RandyMcMillan closed pull request #147: splash: New layout (master...splash) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/147
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613 2021-04-20T22:08:43  <bitcoin-git> [gui] RandyMcMillan closed pull request #208: docs: update README notes for /interfaces (master...interfaces-notes) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/208
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616 2021-04-20T22:09:08  <bitcoin-git> [gui] RandyMcMillan closed pull request #231: splash: new layout and new icon (master...new-icon) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/231
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