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  62021-04-22T00:20:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jamesob opened pull request #21746: refactor: init: mark fReset const (master...2021-04-freset-const) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21746
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  92021-04-22T00:54:50  <yanmaani> How come Bitcoin doesn't use a custom assert macro? That way, if NDEBUG is set, assert could be ((void)__VA_ARGS__) instead, allowing for compilation without assertions to be made.
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 122021-04-22T01:12:02  <luke-jr> yanmaani: afaik it's UB to redefine assert?
 132021-04-22T01:12:32  <yanmaani> luke-jr: if assert.h is included, yes
 142021-04-22T01:12:43  <yanmaani> but a custom assert macro, i.e. #define assert2(...) is OK
 152021-04-22T01:12:52  <yanmaani> and so is redefining assert() without including assert.h
 162021-04-22T01:13:34  <yanmaani> so `#ifdef NDEBUG #define assert(...) ((void)__VA_ARGS__) #else #include <assert.h> #endif` should be OK
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 182021-04-22T01:22:04  <yanmaani> Is there any easy way to get a CPubKey from a CScript or CTxDestination? Or do you simply have to re-implement the logic in SignStep/
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 202021-04-22T01:23:12  <yanmaani> Can you take the CScript, pass it into Solver(), and then case vSolutions[0] to a key ID?
 212021-04-22T01:23:18  <yanmaani> (a CKeyID)
 222021-04-22T01:27:09  <yanmaani> oh wait, ToKeyID(ExtractDestination(script)) should work right?
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 322021-04-22T03:25:46  <BlueMatt> yanmaani: bitcoin core generally has historically treated assert() as "if this isn't true, we probably have buggy hardware, or otherwise may lose funds, continuing is unsafe". so running without assertions is definitely *not* a goal
 332021-04-22T03:32:07  <jeremyrubin> keep in mind that it's much safer for the network *as a whole* to shut down as a result of an assertion violation than it is for an assumption to be violated
 342021-04-22T03:34:08  <jeremyrubin> but that sounds more like a wizards convo
 352021-04-22T03:43:28  <yanmaani> BlueMatt: true, but what if I want to...? but maybe then I should just take the 5 seconds to write another macro :P
 362021-04-22T03:43:44  <jeremyrubin> There's an Assume macro i think
 372021-04-22T03:43:46  <BlueMatt> what?
 382021-04-22T03:44:07  <yanmaani> jeremyrubin: Doesn't that do something else? "This is true else UB"
 392021-04-22T03:44:27  <jeremyrubin> no i think the RPCs use it to return errors
 402021-04-22T03:44:58  <BlueMatt> you asked why bitcoin core doesn't use something other than assert(), I answered why. There is, to my knowledge, nothing in bitcoin core that will abort() in a debug build and not in a release build, which appears to be what you want.
 412021-04-22T03:45:17  <BlueMatt> modulo a few subsystem-specific constructs
 422021-04-22T03:45:24  <jeremyrubin> yanmaani: if you want to get rid of then, best bet is to e.g. refactor code to not use pointers
 432021-04-22T03:45:30  <yanmaani> BlueMatt: right, I understand. And I can sort of see why it wouldn't be worthwhile to add it, either. Since it's a 5 second change and all.
 442021-04-22T03:45:50  <yanmaani> jeremyrubin: I was thinking of __builtin_assume, sorry
 452021-04-22T03:46:04  <jeremyrubin> There are a few good examples where we use ptrs that could be references or reference_wrappers
 462021-04-22T03:46:38  <jeremyrubin> so maybe try to refactor where we're using non nullable ptr asserts
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 492021-04-22T04:28:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] widecoin-project opened pull request #21748: 1.1 (master...1.1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21748
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 522021-04-22T04:29:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #21748: 1.1 (master...1.1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21748
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 742021-04-22T06:51:39  <jnewbery> yanmaani: I think you're looking for ASSUME(). Take a look in src/util/check.h
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 772021-04-22T07:28:43  <aj> jnewbery: too many caps
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 812021-04-22T07:39:07  <jnewbery> oh sorry, you're right. It's just Assume()
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 842021-04-22T07:53:31  <jnewbery> wumpus: MarcoFalke: I think #21009 is ready for merge. Two ACKs on the current branch, and additional ACKs on recent branches from jonatack and ariard.
 852021-04-22T07:53:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21009 | Remove RewindBlockIndex logic by dhruv · Pull Request #21009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 872021-04-22T07:55:18  <fanquake> jnewbery: The PR description at least needs rewriting, as it's no longer correct
 882021-04-22T07:55:55  <fanquake> i.e mentions "This PR introduces NeedsIBD()", and there is no NeedsIBD func introduced.
 892021-04-22T07:57:06  <fanquake> s/rewriting/updating
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1002021-04-22T09:15:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21749: test: Bump shellcheck version (master...210422-shell) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21749
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1062021-04-22T09:30:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #21750: net: remove unnecessary check of CNode::cs_vSend (master...remove_unnecessary_check_of_CNode_cs_vSend) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21750
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1102021-04-22T09:39:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] d8n77ru57 opened pull request #21751: Update nodes_main.txt (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21751
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1132021-04-22T09:40:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #21751: Update nodes_main.txt (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21751
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1152021-04-22T09:45:10  <fanquake> Am I missing something with the opening of description-less PRs, just to fill the description in shortly after?
1162021-04-22T09:45:28  <fanquake> Why not just open it with the description, and avoid potential questions. i.e :https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21749#discussion_r618227797
1172021-04-22T09:55:03  <hebasto> fanquake: sorry for that, it was opened as a draft
1182021-04-22T10:06:41  <aj> https://lwn.net/Articles/853717/ yikes
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1272021-04-22T10:21:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21752: scripted-diff: Clarify that feerates are per virtual size (master...2104-docFee) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21752
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1302021-04-22T10:31:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7776e20ed0d...aaf66413e123
1312021-04-22T10:31:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5858057 practicalswift: net: Add IPv4ToString (we already have IPv6ToString)
1322021-04-22T10:31:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 58580a8 practicalswift: net: Avoid calling getnameinfo when formatting IPv4 addresses in CNetAddr:...
1332021-04-22T10:31:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master aaf6641 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#21564: net: Avoid calling getnameinfo when formattin...
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1362021-04-22T10:32:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21564: net: Avoid calling getnameinfo when formatting IPv4 addresses in CNetAddr::ToStringIP (master...simplify-ipv4-address-formatting) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21564
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1392021-04-22T10:41:06  <jnewbery> fanquake: thanks. I've asked dhruv to update the description
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1412021-04-22T11:00:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/aaf66413e123...4b5659c6b115
1422021-04-22T11:00:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ce994e1 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: add tx modfication helper function in feature_cltv.py
1432021-04-22T11:00:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8d0ce50 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: prepare cltv_invalidate to test all failure reasons in feature_cltv....
1442021-04-22T11:00:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dbc1981 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: check that _all_ invalid-CLTV txs are allowed in a block pre-BIP65
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1472021-04-22T11:01:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19801: test: check for all possible OP_CLTV fail reasons in feature_cltv.py (BIP 65) (master...20200825-test-check-all-failure-reasons-for-CLTV) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19801
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1502021-04-22T11:04:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #21753: doc: add -addrinfo to tor docs (master...tor-doc-addrinfo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21753
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1692021-04-22T12:31:47  <provoostenator> Alright,  I marked the external signer GUI PR  as ready for review... https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/4
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2172021-04-22T15:11:02  <dhruvm> fanquake: jnewbery: Updated #21009 description.
2182021-04-22T15:11:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21009 | Remove RewindBlockIndex logic by dhruv · Pull Request #21009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2222021-04-22T15:18:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21754: test: Run feature_cltv with MiniWallet (master...2104-testCltvNoWallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21754
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2262021-04-22T15:22:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prayank23 opened pull request #21755: Add more info about prefix in error message for invalid address (master...error-address) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21755
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2302021-04-22T15:32:48  <jnewbery> thanks dhruvm
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2452021-04-22T17:00:07  <yanmaani> In the test framework, is there any way to import a specific private key and use it as change?
2462021-04-22T17:01:04  <yanmaani> There's an arg "keypool" in importmulti, but it says "Only allowed when wallet private keys are disabled"
2472021-04-22T17:04:42  <jeremyrubin> MarcoFalke: was curious if you have any advice on where I should create/put test vectors for BIP-119
2482021-04-22T17:05:03  <jeremyrubin> There seems to be like 5 different places static test vectors go, including a separate repo
2492021-04-22T17:05:29  <jeremyrubin> Someone asked for me to make them, which is actually very easy, but deciding where they go is not as simple
2502021-04-22T17:05:52  <jeremyrubin> Also it's not clear if they are in the QA repo if i need to make my branch do a submodule update or something?
2512021-04-22T17:06:13  <yanmaani> also, I don't even get the error thrown when I try to import privkeys into it
2522021-04-22T17:07:01  <yanmaani> Is it even possible, or should I just make a wallet.dat file with the keys hardcoded?
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2962021-04-22T18:14:39  <MarcoFalke> jeremyrubin: How many vectors are there?
2972021-04-22T18:15:09  <jeremyrubin> Well I don't even know which ones would be helpful?
2982021-04-22T18:15:26  <jeremyrubin> Using sapio I can churn out ~infinite vectors in 5 minutes of work
2992021-04-22T18:15:43  <MarcoFalke> Nice. Then pick the ones that are orthorgonal
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3012021-04-22T18:16:35  <MarcoFalke> The minimal set that maximizes branch coverage
3022021-04-22T18:16:57  <jeremyrubin> Where should they live since they require TX Context?
3032021-04-22T18:17:05  <jeremyrubin> just a vector of txs?
3042021-04-22T18:17:38  <MarcoFalke> they require the prevout or more of the previous tx?
3052021-04-22T18:20:26  <jeremyrubin> nope
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3072021-04-22T18:22:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #21756: Avoid calling `getnameinfo` when formatting IPv6 addresses in `CNetAddr::ToStringIP` (master...simplify-ipv6-address-formatting) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21756
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3092021-04-22T18:25:00  <MarcoFalke> Looks like there shouldn't be too many branches
3102021-04-22T18:25:26  <MarcoFalke> Basically it just checks a hash
3112021-04-22T18:25:39  <MarcoFalke> And some size-edge cases
3122021-04-22T18:26:41  <MarcoFalke> Just looking at the functional tests. Do you think they are exhaustive?
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3142021-04-22T18:28:42  <jeremyrubin> let me re-read them...
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3162021-04-22T18:29:55  <jeremyrubin> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21702/files#diff-01837f5d48dbb3b478560986d868bd0a445cc792f00da44621b0a7b835f973d8R103-R112
3172021-04-22T18:30:00  <jeremyrubin> I think so?
3182021-04-22T18:30:14  <jeremyrubin> only missing is Taproot
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3202021-04-22T18:33:06  *** biteskola <biteskola!~biteskola@170.76.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3212021-04-22T18:35:17  <MarcoFalke> Looks like you are using randomness and variable tree size, but that shouldn't increase coverage I guess because verification doesn't concern itself with depth
3222021-04-22T18:36:13  <MarcoFalke> So if there are just ~10 vectors you could hardcode them in hex or json and add them to the BIP
3232021-04-22T18:36:54  *** braydonf <braydonf!~braydon@gateway/tor-sasl/braydonf> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3242021-04-22T18:37:08  <MarcoFalke> If there are thousands of vectors, it might be better to add them to qa-assets repo
3252021-04-22T18:37:49  <MarcoFalke> You could still include the nicest ones in the BIP, I guess
3262021-04-22T18:38:29  <MarcoFalke> It is mostly up to you, but for the Bitcoin Core repo we try to avoid commiting large blobs
3272021-04-22T18:40:29  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6981:7880::3> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3282021-04-22T18:41:42  <jeremyrubin> yeah maybe i'll just print some small ones
3292021-04-22T18:42:12  <jeremyrubin> Should I add a taproot case to the rpc test?
3302021-04-22T18:43:59  <jeremyrubin> Do i need a p2sh one which is kinda mathematically impossible?
3312021-04-22T18:44:09  <jeremyrubin> I guess I can test that it fails..
3322021-04-22T18:47:09  <MarcoFalke> yanmaani: Yes, it is possible to import private keys in tests (just like you would "normally")
3332021-04-22T18:47:40  <MarcoFalke> Jup, failing test cases are just as useful as passing ones
3342021-04-22T18:47:41  *** smctwo <smctwo!~smctwo@bba597217.alshamil.net.ae> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3352021-04-22T18:50:04  *** cguida <cguida!~Adium@205.209.28.54> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
3362021-04-22T18:57:53  *** kvaciral <kvaciral!~kvaciral@212.8.251.11> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3372021-04-22T19:00:00  <wumpus> #startmeeting
3382021-04-22T19:00:00  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 22 19:00:00 2021 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
3392021-04-22T19:00:00  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
3402021-04-22T19:00:11  <meshcollider> hi
3412021-04-22T19:00:16  <hebasto> hi
3422021-04-22T19:00:17  <luke-jr> hi
3432021-04-22T19:00:18  <gleb> Hi
3442021-04-22T19:00:21  <ariard> hi
3452021-04-22T19:00:21  <jnewbery> hi
3462021-04-22T19:00:25  <michaelfolkson> hi
3472021-04-22T19:00:27  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
3482021-04-22T19:00:29  <wumpus> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
3492021-04-22T19:00:31  <glozow> hi
3502021-04-22T19:00:34  <jeremyrubin> hi
3512021-04-22T19:01:03  *** murchin <murchin!04355c72@4.53.92.114> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3522021-04-22T19:01:07  <wumpus> one proposed meeting topic for today: adding a second BIP editor (jnewbery)
3532021-04-22T19:01:20  <achow101> hi
3542021-04-22T19:01:26  <luke-jr> Great idea, but this is neither an appropriate time nor venue for that discussion.
3552021-04-22T19:01:27  <wumpus> any last minute topic proposals?
3562021-04-22T19:01:28  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic 0.20.2
3572021-04-22T19:02:23  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
3582021-04-22T19:02:24  <core-meetingbot> topic: High priority for review
3592021-04-22T19:02:42  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  has 10 blockers, no bugfixes and nothing chasing concept ACK
3602021-04-22T19:02:56  <wumpus> anything to add / remove or that is ready to merge?
3612021-04-22T19:03:42  <ariard> #19160 has 5 acks
3622021-04-22T19:03:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19160 | multiprocess: Add basic spawn and IPC support by ryanofsky · Pull Request #19160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3632021-04-22T19:04:04  <jonatack> hi
3642021-04-22T19:04:10  <wumpus> ariard: good to know, thanks
3652021-04-22T19:04:11  <jonatack> may i add #21261?
3662021-04-22T19:04:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21261 | p2p: update inbound eviction protection for multiple networks, add I2P peers by jonatack · Pull Request #21261 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3672021-04-22T19:04:52  <wumpus> jonatack: added!
3682021-04-22T19:04:59  <jonatack> thanks!
3692021-04-22T19:05:20  <yanmaani> MarcoFalke: How do I do that, while adding them to the keypool?
3702021-04-22T19:05:36  <wumpus> yanmaani: meeting in progress, please delay other discussion until after it
3712021-04-22T19:05:44  <yanmaani> I can import public keys with importmulti, but that doesn't support adding private keys as change
3722021-04-22T19:05:59  <jnewbery> yanmaani: after meeting, please
3732021-04-22T19:06:55  <wumpus> #topic Adding a second BIP editor (jnewbery)
3742021-04-22T19:06:55  <core-meetingbot> topic: Adding a second BIP editor (jnewbery)
3752021-04-22T19:06:58  *** deJavu <deJavu!4ebb29bb@78.187.41.187> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
3762021-04-22T19:07:12  <jnewbery> hi
3772021-04-22T19:07:20  <jnewbery> luke-jr has been the sole BIP editor for several years, and it seems like he's now overstretched and only able to look at the repo about once a month
3782021-04-22T19:07:42  <jnewbery> I suggest that we lighten his load by adding a second BIP editor. BIP2 allows multiple BIP editors and refers to plural BIP editors in several places, eg "The BIP editors are intended to fulfill administrative and editorial responsibilities. The BIP editors monitor BIP changes, and update BIP headers as appropriate."
3792021-04-22T19:07:54  <wumpus> would make sense imo
3802021-04-22T19:08:00  <jnewbery> kallewoof has recently offered to help with BIP repo maintainence:
3812021-04-22T19:08:00  <jnewbery> 15:43 < kallewoof> luke-jr: on a serious note, if you want help with the bip maintenance stuff, i'll gladly assist.
3822021-04-22T19:08:19  <jnewbery> If he's willing, I propose that add him as a second BIP editor.
3832021-04-22T19:08:30  <achow101> Seems like something to discuss on the mailing list really
3842021-04-22T19:08:35  <luke-jr> ^
3852021-04-22T19:08:39  <MarcoFalke> ACK, but seems off topic for this channel
3862021-04-22T19:08:56  <sipa> i agree with jnewbery's idea, but ut's something to discuss on the ML
3872021-04-22T19:09:01  <jnewbery> Lots of us know kallewoof. I believe he's trustworthy and perfectly capable of fulfilling the required administrative and editorial responsibilities.
3882021-04-22T19:09:26  <ariard> i agree on the motivation but same something to discuss on the ml
3892021-04-22T19:09:27  <wumpus> it's something to *decide* on the ML, but it's fine to discuss it here once imo
3902021-04-22T19:09:34  <luke-jr> FWIW, I did discuss it further with kalle privately; but IMO the timing is very poor for adding another editor right now
3912021-04-22T19:09:45  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: why?
3922021-04-22T19:09:46  <jnewbery> luke-jr: why is the timing poor?
3932021-04-22T19:10:22  <luke-jr> it seems motivated by an effort to give special treatment to a certain PR, which I hear might be "weaponised" for deceptive propaganda
3942021-04-22T19:10:40  <jeremyrubin> I agree with ML, but also maybe we can add a *temporary editor* if current editors have been too busy in the short term
3952021-04-22T19:10:51  <luke-jr> would be better to wait until any such concerns are gone
3962021-04-22T19:11:16  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: What do you mean with "special treatment"?
3972021-04-22T19:11:18  <jnewbery> I trust that kallewoof would not give special treatment to any PR. The editor's role is not to show preference/dispreference to PRs.
3982021-04-22T19:12:12  <wumpus> right the role of BIP editors is to follow the BIP1/2 process, not to pass personal judgement on BIPs besides very basic style criteria
3992021-04-22T19:12:14  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: rushed merging outside the usual triage, without full consideration to the factors in concluding it's RTM
4002021-04-22T19:12:19  <jeremyrubin> What sort of breach of duty under the BIP-0002 defined role would an additional editor make?
4012021-04-22T19:12:50  <michaelfolkson> It is a tricky situation, the aforementioned PR. I'd like to discuss it and how this type of scenario should be treated in future but better when things have calmed down I think
4022021-04-22T19:12:55  <jeremyrubin> As far as you've represented previously, you haven't had time to even look at the BIP341 changes which is why it's not merged.
4032021-04-22T19:12:56  *** sipa <sipa!~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
4042021-04-22T19:13:08  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: right, maybe it's fine, I don't know
4052021-04-22T19:13:20  <jnewbery> luke-jr: if you believe that kallewoof is unsuitable and wouldn't fulfil the editor role faithfully, then perhaps you could spell out why you have that concern. It'd save time on the mailing list
4062021-04-22T19:13:53  <jeremyrubin> +1 jnewbery
4072021-04-22T19:14:01  <luke-jr> jnewbery: I'm not saying he is unsuitable.
4082021-04-22T19:14:05  <jeremyrubin> as per BIP-0002, which would need ammending to add kallewoof, BIP authors are responsible for collecting community feedback on both the initial idea and the BIP before submitting it for review. However, wherever possible, long open-ended discussions on public mailing lists should be avoided
4092021-04-22T19:14:09  <jnewbery> so what's the concern with timing?
4102021-04-22T19:14:38  <luke-jr> jnewbery: I already summarised.
4112021-04-22T19:14:42  <jeremyrubin> so if kallewoof is controversial, or an editor, even if better suited to decide on mailing list, we should flesh out what adding an editor means before then
4122021-04-22T19:14:57  <jeremyrubin> *an addtl editor
4132021-04-22T19:16:00  <jeremyrubin> I'm also very concerned with "weaponised" for deceptive propagand'
4142021-04-22T19:16:07  <jnewbery> luke-jr: let me restate your points. Correct me where I go wrong: now is not a good time because a new editor might show preferential treatment to a certain PR. But we don't believe kallewoof would show preferential treatment to PRs. So what's the timing concern
4152021-04-22T19:16:24  <jeremyrubin> Is this something we need to be preparing for? Like when the copyright claims were made on the whitepaper?
4162021-04-22T19:17:24  <luke-jr> jnewbery: because the motivation appears to be to get preferential treatment; I have been hit with a lot of nagging, apparently for the purposes of passing off ST as "the" activation method period
4172021-04-22T19:17:44  <jnewbery> ok, so the concern is not timing, but motivation?
4182021-04-22T19:17:51  <luke-jr> jnewbery: it would be better to add an editor when there isn't such things going on
4192021-04-22T19:18:16  <michaelfolkson> Shall we continue on the mailing list as previously suggested?
4202021-04-22T19:18:19  <wumpus> ok... I don't think this is particularly constructive, let's move it further to the mailing list
4212021-04-22T19:18:21  <wumpus> yes
4222021-04-22T19:18:32  <jeremyrubin> noting that it's against BIP-0002 to proceed on mailing list
4232021-04-22T19:18:36  *** murchin is now known as murch
4242021-04-22T19:18:38  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: wut?
4252021-04-22T19:18:51  <jeremyrubin> "long open-ended discussions on public mailing lists should be avoided"
4262021-04-22T19:19:00  <luke-jr> sigh
4272021-04-22T19:19:21  <wumpus> they should be avoided in the weekly core IRC meeting too
4282021-04-22T19:19:23  <jnewbery> I'm happy to draft an email to the mailing list, but I'd like to understand the process. What's the process for adding an editor? How does it get decided?
4292021-04-22T19:19:58  <ariard> jeremyrubin: on the other point, I don't think bip2 recommend bitcoin-core-dev as a venue, maybe better suitted to #bitcoin or #bitcoin-wizards
4302021-04-22T19:20:22  <luke-jr> jnewbery: in the past, it's been the existing editor passes it on, but when I intended to do that in 2018 I found people privately didn't like it, so wider involvement might be better
4312021-04-22T19:20:30  <jeremyrubin> well I think it's sort of a weird bind, as luke-jr is the author of 0002 who has the only right to amend it
4322021-04-22T19:20:40  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: BIP 2 doesn't need to be amended for this
4332021-04-22T19:20:47  <jeremyrubin> and he's also the editor who judge amendement
4342021-04-22T19:20:56  <jeremyrubin> so I think jnewbery is right to ask what the heck the process is
4352021-04-22T19:21:29  <jeremyrubin> I would expect https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0002.mediawiki#bip-editors to be updated
4362021-04-22T19:21:40  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: I agree it is a bind but binds aren't solved best overnight
4372021-04-22T19:21:42  <luke-jr> IMO what would make sense, is when the timing is reasonable/calm, I can just propose Kalle to the ML and if nobody objects we add him to the README or whatever
4382021-04-22T19:21:59  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: ah, forgot about that
4392021-04-22T19:22:13  <jnewbery> it does seem somewhat of a centralization problem. The BIPs repo is a venue for sharing proposed changes to Bitcoin, and one person decides who can update it, and also decides whether or not they should ever be replaced/supplemented?
4402021-04-22T19:22:32  <wumpus> yes
4412021-04-22T19:22:34  <meshcollider> jeremyrubin: I interpret that "long winded discussion" bit to be about the BIPs themselves, not the process of adding an editor
4422021-04-22T19:22:37  <luke-jr> jnewbery: seems like it would be good to have the editor cycle every year or two
4432021-04-22T19:22:38  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: I think that given conflict of interest you should just appoint a disterested editor/owner for BIP-0002
4442021-04-22T19:22:48  <harding> luke-jr: I don't agree with the timing issues, but until they're resolved to your satisfaction, is there something we can do to provide you with additional availability so that you can review BIP PRs in a timely manner?
4452021-04-22T19:23:03  <jonatack> meshcollider: same
4462021-04-22T19:23:40  <jeremyrubin> meshcollider: it's a self-reference bug of how we defined editorship; I agree it should be fixed!
4472021-04-22T19:23:55  <luke-jr> harding: hmm, I'm not sure. any suggestions?
4482021-04-22T19:24:27  <jeremyrubin> Is it displacing paid consulting work or something? How long do you estimate editing work would take?
4492021-04-22T19:24:33  <luke-jr> (I do expect I can get to it before the signalling begins, either way)
4502021-04-22T19:25:02  <harding> luke-jr: take over some other work of yours?  Help pay for your lawn maintenance person?  Something like that?
4512021-04-22T19:25:06  <michaelfolkson> I think in summary luke-jr is happy at some point to add an additional editor, appears to be happy with kallewoof if that is the eventual choice but doesn't want it rushed overnight to fix a PR merge issue
4522021-04-22T19:25:11  <jonatack> luke-jr: naive suggestion, maybe just take a few minutes to review the PR in question and merge it, issue resolved?
4532021-04-22T19:25:12  <luke-jr> as a reminder, though, BIPs *are* just documentation, so there really shouldn't need to be a rush
4542021-04-22T19:26:23  <michaelfolkson> I don't this is productive at this point. An email to the mailing list informing the BIP community that an additional editor is sought is probably a good next step
4552021-04-22T19:26:27  <jeremyrubin> Well it might be helpful for those implementing ST compatibility for the reference doc for activation to be the latest draft
4562021-04-22T19:26:38  <jnewbery> I think that for a project that strives for decentralization, a situation where one person has a role and gets to decide whether they should ever be replaced is completely unsuitable
4572021-04-22T19:26:45  <jeremyrubin> AJ's PR does not move 341 to final IIRC (altho perhaps it should be Active)
4582021-04-22T19:27:19  <michaelfolkson> jnewbery: luke-jr is saying he is happy to add an additional editor (just not in a rushed manner)
4592021-04-22T19:27:26  <luke-jr> harding: right now, I'm churning through dealing with the rebase of BIP8 on top of the ST stuff. I suppose that might go faster if there were people willing to review it. But frankly then it almost sounds like I'm holding the BIPs hostage, and I don't want to do that either.
4602021-04-22T19:27:30  <yanmaani> jnewbery: Do the BIP editors have any actual power?
4612021-04-22T19:28:07  <yanmaani> I mean, if they'd start to NACK things in bad faith, you could just figure something out if that happens. It doesn't seem like a catastrophic issue.
4622021-04-22T19:28:16  <jnewbery> yanmaani: in theory, no. But if a BIP editor were acting unfaithfully they could do something like hold up the merge of a PR that the authors had all ACKed
4632021-04-22T19:28:23  <ariard> quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
4642021-04-22T19:28:24  <jeremyrubin> What if we just Cordon off the section of the AJ's PR and add a patch that says *activation logic pending further bip editing review, but merged in public information interest*
4652021-04-22T19:29:31  <michaelfolkson> There are no other topics right? This doesn't seem to be going anywhere
4662021-04-22T19:29:39  <wumpus> there is another topic
4672021-04-22T19:29:44  *** Talkless <Talkless!~Talkless@mail.dargis.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
4682021-04-22T19:29:49  <jnewbery> wumpus: I don't think this one is done
4692021-04-22T19:30:00  <jnewbery> I'm still not clear on what the process is for adding a new BIP editor
4702021-04-22T19:30:05  <jeremyrubin> This might be an uncomfortable conversation but I think it's important
4712021-04-22T19:30:13  <jnewbery> jeremyrubin: +1
4722021-04-22T19:30:54  <luke-jr> jnewbery: kallewoof was also AIUI planning to write a new BIP to replace BIP 2. maybe this is another topic to resolve in it.
4732021-04-22T19:31:09  <jnewbery> if the answer is "a new BIP editor is added when and only when luke-jr wants to", then I think we need to change that
4742021-04-22T19:31:12  <luke-jr> I don't think the current situation is well-defined
4752021-04-22T19:31:17  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: The only factor to consider merging a change is whether the bip author(s) are ok with a change
4762021-04-22T19:31:20  <jeremyrubin> I think the main thing is that it seems like procedure stalling over AJ's PR
4772021-04-22T19:31:30  <MarcoFalke> (well apart from formatting and technical feasibility, ....)
4782021-04-22T19:31:35  <jeremyrubin> I think we *should* fix the process. We should also merge AJ's PR.
4792021-04-22T19:31:42  <jeremyrubin> We don't need to depend one on the other
4802021-04-22T19:31:50  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: BIPs PRs merging slowly is not a new thing at all.
4812021-04-22T19:32:19  <jeremyrubin> What, if anything, do you need to check in the PR and how long would it take you?
4822021-04-22T19:32:33  <murch> I mean, signaling begins this week and it's not documented in a BIP yet.
4832021-04-22T19:32:37  <wumpus> yea if the PR is ready for merge it should be merged, in the time of this discussion it could have been merged like 5 times
4842021-04-22T19:32:42  <jeremyrubin> Like IMO it seems like less time than this meeting is taken?
4852021-04-22T19:32:44  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: +1
4862021-04-22T19:33:18  <glozow> I don't understand why the process for adding a new editor would be different based on timing or what PRs are open on the repo
4872021-04-22T19:33:55  <jnewbery> I also don't understand that. The two things can be handled separately.
4882021-04-22T19:34:03  <luke-jr> murch: signalling does not begin this week
4892021-04-22T19:34:17  <michaelfolkson> Someone should propose a process for formalizing the adding a new BIP editor to the mailing list
4902021-04-22T19:34:18  <murch> starttime = 2021-04-24 00:00 UTC
4912021-04-22T19:34:23  <wumpus> people really want to see it merged, no one disagrees strongly, why not just cooporate luke-jr, i don't really see why we need to escalate this to add a new editor right now
4922021-04-22T19:34:29  <meshcollider> BIP PRs merging being merged historically is not a reason to continue being slow forever
4932021-04-22T19:34:39  <jonatack> wumpus: same. I don't understand what's to be gained here.
4942021-04-22T19:34:41  <meshcollider> Being merged slowly*
4952021-04-22T19:35:00  <jnewbery> BIP PRs being merged slowly historically is more evidence that we need to spread the load of BIP repo maintainership
4962021-04-22T19:35:07  <luke-jr> wumpus: I have the impression people who really want to see it merged, are for deceptive purposes, and that there is ongoing arguments over it on the PR
4972021-04-22T19:35:23  <luke-jr> wumpus: maybe it is RTM, but I don't expect it's 5 minutes to figure out
4982021-04-22T19:35:27  <jeremyrubin> also being merged slowly for random things is different than being merged slowly *after being asked for accelerated process*
4992021-04-22T19:35:35  <michaelfolkson> glozow: luke-jr is of the view that this is only being requested at this time because of a specific PR merge decision. And it does seem that way
5002021-04-22T19:35:39  <achow101> luke-jr: it has ACKs from all 3 BIP authors, is that not sufficient?
5012021-04-22T19:35:39  <jnewbery> luke-jr: it doesn't matter whether there are 'ongoing arguments'. The three authors have all ACKed it
5022021-04-22T19:35:39  <luke-jr> murch: it's the first diff adjustment after that date
5032021-04-22T19:35:40  <jeremyrubin> harding asked you days ago to do it prior to this optech
5042021-04-22T19:35:52  <wumpus> separately from that we probably need a new BIP editor, and a process for that, but rushing into that after years of no one showing a single interest in being BIP editor is also a bit strange
5052021-04-22T19:35:53  <harding> luke-jr: I can link you directly to each of the authors ACKs.
5062021-04-22T19:36:09  <jnewbery> wumpus: kallewoof has shown interest in helping
5072021-04-22T19:36:11  <luke-jr> jnewbery: maybe so. I haven't looked.
5082021-04-22T19:36:30  <jnewbery> luke-jr: very good. Maybe having an extra editor would help
5092021-04-22T19:36:30  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: I've seen others express interest, but lack of clarity around process and not wanting to insult the current editor
5102021-04-22T19:36:50  <luke-jr> jnewbery: again, I agree. we should add an editor. I just don't think doing so for this specifically is good timing.
5112021-04-22T19:37:09  <jnewbery> I'm not suggesting we do it for this specifically
5122021-04-22T19:37:22  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: If there are other possible candidates other than kallewoof it needs a process
5132021-04-22T19:37:34  <meshcollider> luke-jr: in the meantime it seems very trivial to go and check the ACKs and then merge it then before proposing the new editor, which would solve the controversial timing issue
5142021-04-22T19:37:53  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: are there other candidates?
5152021-04-22T19:37:55  <wumpus> meshcollider: right
5162021-04-22T19:38:05  <jeremyrubin> ANd I agree it can be discussed on the mailing list
5172021-04-22T19:38:11  <jnewbery> I'm still curious what the process is for adding a new BIP editor
5182021-04-22T19:38:12  <jeremyrubin> but jnewbery asked a simple question, what's the process
5192021-04-22T19:38:13  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: "I've seen others express interest,"
5202021-04-22T19:38:18  <murch> So, I see two conflicting statements: you haven't checked whether all three bip authors have acked it, and that would be sufficient, but it would take you more than 5 minutes to figure out. How about you check now. We have a minute.
5212021-04-22T19:38:37  <jeremyrubin> and luke answered in essence when I say so
5222021-04-22T19:38:42  <luke-jr> meshcollider: but with people trying to politicise it, passing it off as "the activation method" and such, I need to evaluate if the BIP process has any rules/precedent dealing with such things
5232021-04-22T19:38:42  <jeremyrubin> which isn't really a process
5242021-04-22T19:39:07  <jeremyrubin> I don't think that we need one or two editors, anyone who wants to and is qualified can be added with reasonable support
5252021-04-22T19:39:20  <michaelfolkson> jnewbery: The process has not been formalized. If you could draft up a formalized process for the mailing list that would be a productive step
5262021-04-22T19:39:21  <luke-jr> meshcollider: (I don't think it does, but I'm not certain.)
5272021-04-22T19:39:23  <jeremyrubin> I think 3-5 editors is probably a good amount, odd # preferred
5282021-04-22T19:39:49  <michaelfolkson> Next topic....?
5292021-04-22T19:39:50  <ariard> i think the best answer we have is we don't have a process to add a new bip editor for now and it's a wider community concern than scope of core dev meeting, so better mailing list
5302021-04-22T19:40:21  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: if you think the optics of adding an editor now are bad, recognize your role in creating the neccessity of it
5312021-04-22T19:40:35  <wumpus> clearly there is no process for it at the moment
5322021-04-22T19:40:44  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: that's nonsense.
5332021-04-22T19:40:54  <wumpus> like jeremyrubin says we could just add one if there is sufficient support for it
5342021-04-22T19:41:00  <glozow> so we are in agreement that jnewbery should draft a proposal for the process and send it to the mailing list?
5352021-04-22T19:41:04  <wumpus> then agin I'd prefer if luke-jr  agreed
5362021-04-22T19:41:07  <luke-jr> glozow: sounds good to me
5372021-04-22T19:41:11  <jeremyrubin> I think that -- by your own admission -- you've said there is an appearance that you're holding the BIP hostage
5382021-04-22T19:41:31  <luke-jr> if jnewbery is okay with that
5392021-04-22T19:41:35  <jnewbery> wumpus: there is certainly sufficient support for it
5402021-04-22T19:41:43  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: stop twisting my words
5412021-04-22T19:41:45  <jeremyrubin> That appearance serves to delegitimize the BIP process itself, which is also bad... remove yourself from the situation, just appoint a temporary editor for this BIP
5422021-04-22T19:41:59  <jeremyrubin> and then let jnewbery take his time to propose a new process
5432021-04-22T19:42:11  <jeremyrubin> this seems to be a natural compromise
5442021-04-22T19:42:13  <wumpus> jnewbery: that was fairly clear
5452021-04-22T19:42:30  <wumpus> jnewbery: I think you can just propose adding kallewoof as BIP editor on the mailing list and see what the response is
5462021-04-22T19:42:41  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: works for me
5472021-04-22T19:43:04  <jnewbery> wumpus: who is able to add an editor?
5482021-04-22T19:43:10  *** cguida <cguida!~Adium@205.209.28.54> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
5492021-04-22T19:43:18  <meshcollider> Any admin of the Bitcoin org
5502021-04-22T19:43:23  <wumpus> if you mean as to github permissions: any admin of the github org
5512021-04-22T19:43:25  <wumpus> yes
5522021-04-22T19:43:40  <jeremyrubin> so you or sipa?
5532021-04-22T19:44:08  <jnewbery> So what would an admin need in order to be satisfied that such support existed?
5542021-04-22T19:44:19  <jnewbery> And therefore add a new editor
5552021-04-22T19:44:24  <michaelfolkson> Is this PR an emergency? Because I am not aware it is...
5562021-04-22T19:44:53  <wumpus> i would prefer if luke-jr agreed to it
5572021-04-22T19:45:26  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: by what process would you ignore your preference? it seems unlikely luke-jr would agree
5582021-04-22T19:45:30  *** cguida <cguida!~Adium@205.209.28.54> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
5592021-04-22T19:45:34  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: quit trolling
5602021-04-22T19:45:35  <wumpus> but also agree that this is very centralized right now and if he seems to be blocking things, that is not good optics and such either
5612021-04-22T19:46:00  <luke-jr> wumpus: I'm not blocking anything. Just doing the same as I have for every other PR for years.
5622021-04-22T19:46:10  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: I don't think it's appropriate for you, the bip editor, to call trying to understand how you've ensconced yourself as editor, trolling.
5632021-04-22T19:46:19  <jnewbery> it's not that it's bad optics. It's bad process for the project. And it's a waste of everyone's time
5642021-04-22T19:46:34  <michaelfolkson> Is this an emergency PR? If it is I agree it needs emergency measures. If it isn't I think this is a waste of time for all of us
5652021-04-22T19:46:52  <ariard> imo it's not a good precedent to have admin of the github org substituting to the lack of bip editor appointment process
5662021-04-22T19:47:00  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: it's not a waste of time as this conversation does have to happen now or in the future
5672021-04-22T19:47:03  <jnewbery> ariard: there is no process
5682021-04-22T19:47:14  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: and that is true absent the current PR in question
5692021-04-22T19:47:21  <luke-jr> there are several outstanding issues with BIP 2 that should be revised. I think we identified one more. seems like the action path is best to work on a new BIP to replace BIP 2.
5702021-04-22T19:47:25  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: It would be easier to have this conversation without this cloud though
5712021-04-22T19:47:38  <wumpus> ariard: agree
5722021-04-22T19:47:48  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: I disagree -- then it would be "we have other more pressing things, why have this stupid debate now"
5732021-04-22T19:47:51  <ariard> jnewbery: we agree on the lack of process, i'm marking my disagreement on fallbacking to github org admins
5742021-04-22T19:47:55  <luke-jr> ariard: there is precedent for BIP editor to add BIP editors; so no problem assuming we wait for reasonable timing
5752021-04-22T19:48:09  <wumpus> ariard: then again i'm just trying to do what people in the project want
5762021-04-22T19:48:10  <jnewbery> luke-jr: that in itself is a problem
5772021-04-22T19:48:13  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: there's no good time, place, etc for this convo because it's fundamental stupid procedure issues
5782021-04-22T19:48:20  <wumpus> ariard: if everyone wants kallewoof as BIP editor i'm going to add him
5792021-04-22T19:48:27  <jnewbery> wumpus: +1
5802021-04-22T19:48:29  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: but it's still necessary
5812021-04-22T19:48:40  <harding> +1 kallewoof as BIP editor
5822021-04-22T19:48:43  *** ctrlbreak_MAD is now known as ctrlbreak
5832021-04-22T19:48:46  <jeremyrubin> +1 kallewoof
5842021-04-22T19:49:09  <ariard> wumpus: yes but i think the discussion belongs wider than a core dev meeting, and we should seek consensus on the mailing list
5852021-04-22T19:49:12  <wumpus> i do prefer it to be proposed on the ML as well
5862021-04-22T19:49:13  <jeremyrubin> (I'm also +1 to ~anyone else who cares to be editor)
5872021-04-22T19:49:21  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: a good time is when it's not being used as a tool toward some other purpose
5882021-04-22T19:49:24  <michaelfolkson> Not knowing the other candidates I wouldn't oppose kallewoof. I don't like it being rushed because of a PR though
5892021-04-22T19:49:33  <jeremyrubin> we can seek some rough consensus here tho; to make sure it's not wasting mailing list time
5902021-04-22T19:49:44  <meshcollider> +1 kallewoof with a ML proposal too
5912021-04-22T19:49:44  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: i think we have consensus here now
5922021-04-22T19:49:47  <jeremyrubin> if kallewoof is fundamentally objectionable someone should say so
5932021-04-22T19:49:57  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: no one here is disagreeing on it, just about timing
5942021-04-22T19:50:14  <jeremyrubin> this reminds me of soft forks and signalling vs not signalling...
5952021-04-22T19:50:24  <jeremyrubin> there's value in "people said ok" v.s. "no one disagreed"
5962021-04-22T19:50:25  <jnewbery> wumpus: very happy to send a post to the mailing list asking for anyone to step forward with objections. If no-one has a reasonable objection within a week or so, then perhaps we should go ahead and do it
5972021-04-22T19:50:27  <ariard> jeremyrubin: right that's a first step but you have a lot of others community dev involved in the bip process than only core
5982021-04-22T19:50:31  <jnewbery> I think that's a fair process
5992021-04-22T19:50:35  <wumpus> jnewbery:sgtm
6002021-04-22T19:50:46  <jeremyrubin> ariard: yep, I'm not nacking going to mailing list
6012021-04-22T19:51:02  <wumpus> ok, we have another topic ,so let's move on for now
6022021-04-22T19:51:04  <meshcollider> luke-jr: as we said, if it's just that PR merge you're worried about for propoganda sake, please go and review it now before kalle is added, then there is no problem
6032021-04-22T19:51:17  <luke-jr> meshcollider: yes, I probably will get a chance within that week timeframe
6042021-04-22T19:51:19  <wumpus> #topic 0.20.2 (MarcoFalke)
6052021-04-22T19:51:20  <core-meetingbot> topic: 0.20.2 (MarcoFalke)
6062021-04-22T19:51:39  <MarcoFalke> Any objections to release 0.20.2 a week or two after 0.21.1?
6072021-04-22T19:51:42  <luke-jr> 0.20 doesn't have Taproot logic, right?
6082021-04-22T19:51:48  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: no taproot
6092021-04-22T19:51:53  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: But bech32m
6102021-04-22T19:51:59  <wumpus> what is the motivation ? ah right, makes sense then
6112021-04-22T19:52:00  <luke-jr> at the very least that should be made very clear in the rel notes
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6162021-04-22T19:52:20  <MarcoFalke> Pretty sure sipa added release notes
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6192021-04-22T19:52:34  <jnewbery> MarcoFalke: will there be a taproot v0.20 release shortly after?
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6212021-04-22T19:52:43  <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: No, why?
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6252021-04-22T19:53:11  <luke-jr> jnewbery: IIRC adding Taproot to 0.20 was a can of worms
6262021-04-22T19:53:27  <jeremyrubin> i think if anyones not following the motivation is "I want to send to addresses people give me, but I run 0.20"
6272021-04-22T19:53:45  <jnewbery> ah ok then. Never mind
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6292021-04-22T19:54:05  <jeremyrubin> TBH I'm skeptical of value -- are bech32m addresses expected to be used before 0.20 falls out of service?
6302021-04-22T19:54:08  <luke-jr> besides, it won't activate before November
6312021-04-22T19:54:23  <MarcoFalke> At this point it might be questionable if anyone upgrades to 0.20.2 even, but we have everything prepared for the release
6322021-04-22T19:54:30  <jeremyrubin> (and does a point release extend that deadline?)
6332021-04-22T19:54:42  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: well, could do a rc1 and leave it at that if there's no feedback
6342021-04-22T19:54:48  <jeremyrubin> if the question for the topic is just [4/22/21 12:51] <MarcoFalke> Any objections to release 0.20.2 a week or two after 0.21.1?
6352021-04-22T19:54:53  <jeremyrubin> then i have no objection :)
6362021-04-22T19:54:55  <murch> jeremyrubin: I think the bigger issue would be that 0.20.1 recognizes native segwit v1 addresses encoded as Bech32 as correct?
6372021-04-22T19:55:19  <MarcoFalke> murch: It does
6382021-04-22T19:55:35  <MarcoFalke> murch: Though, there should be no wallet that produces v1 addresses
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6402021-04-22T19:56:40  <murch> Well, some wallets implemented experimental Taproot support before BIP350
6412021-04-22T19:56:56  <luke-jr> but it can't be used before activation..
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6432021-04-22T19:57:49  <jeremyrubin> I think the benefits of releasing it as a compiled binary that a used can discover are relatively slim... that it has been backported at all is OK
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6462021-04-22T19:58:09  <jeremyrubin> MarcoFalke: I think whatever you decide is OK with me
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6542021-04-22T19:58:37  <MarcoFalke> It would be good to have some kind of process for this
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6562021-04-22T19:58:51  <wumpus> there's not much overhead to doing a release so if someone wants a release we can do it
6572021-04-22T19:58:59  <MarcoFalke> If the process is "just do an rc1", that's fine
6582021-04-22T19:59:36  <luke-jr> rc1->final is where things are fuzzy; it makes sense to just not go final in some cases
6592021-04-22T19:59:53  <luke-jr> if people want a final, they can test rc1 and report back
6602021-04-22T20:00:02  <wumpus> yes
6612021-04-22T20:00:13  <luke-jr> if not, it stays at rc1 - that's fine too
6622021-04-22T20:00:22  <luke-jr> IMO
6632021-04-22T20:00:43  <wumpus> sgtm, at least the backport has a tag then
6642021-04-22T20:00:50  <MarcoFalke> ok
6652021-04-22T20:00:52  <wumpus> so it doesn't get dropped when the branch goes away
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6672021-04-22T20:01:05  <MarcoFalke> bedtime?
6682021-04-22T20:01:07  <wumpus> (which isn't any time soon but still)
6692021-04-22T20:01:13  <wumpus> yes, time to conclude the meeting
6702021-04-22T20:01:18  <wumpus> #endmeeting
6712021-04-22T20:01:18  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
6722021-04-22T20:01:18  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Apr 22 20:01:18 2021 UTC.
6732021-04-22T20:01:18  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-04-22-19.00.moin.txt
6742021-04-22T20:01:30  <jonatack> ✨ o/
6752021-04-22T20:02:15  <wumpus> speaking of releases i'm going to merge https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/0.21.1-Release-Notes-draft into the 0.21.1 release notes
6762021-04-22T20:07:39  <yanmaani> In the test framework, is there any way to import a specific private key and use it as a change address?
6772021-04-22T20:08:11  <wumpus> i see there's also a release notes fragment that needs to be merged in : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.21/doc/release-notes-20861.md
6782021-04-22T20:10:53  <MarcoFalke> Jup, that is the bech32m change
6792021-04-22T20:11:02  <MarcoFalke> Same release note should be in the 0.20 branch
6802021-04-22T20:12:04  <MarcoFalke> oh, looks like it is not merged yet: #21470
6812021-04-22T20:12:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21470 | BIP 350: Implement Bech32m and use it for v1+ segwit addresses (0.20 backport) by sipa · Pull Request #21470 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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6852021-04-22T20:14:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 commit to 0.21: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5577e0a4867c...d97d0d31a6f4
6862021-04-22T20:14:33  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.21 d97d0d3 W. J. van der Laan: doc: Merge release notes fragment, merge taproot description from wiki
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6992021-04-22T20:43:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #21759: wallet: document coin selection code (master...2021-04-wallet-docs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21759
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7202021-04-22T22:08:35  <luke-jr> done with the rebasing stuff, so I'll get to BIP PRs soon. but in the interest of getting the ball rolling for kalle, I drafted this email for the ML: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j7_rtK4U6z-Bn00yNLIwJp9ksF3bJW6wXgYO2KQ-0EA/edit?usp=sharing
7212021-04-22T22:08:37  <luke-jr> anything to add?
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7382021-04-22T22:56:52  <jeremyrubin> FWIW I think ACKs matter more than NACKs for adding an editor...
7392021-04-22T22:57:37  <jeremyrubin> consent > lack of nonconsent
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7412021-04-22T23:00:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Brightside56 opened pull request #21760: Add -flushwalletinterval command line arg (master...flushwalletinterval) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21760
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7432021-04-22T23:00:40  <luke-jr> achow101: is https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1100 a NACK?
7442021-04-22T23:05:58  <achow101> luke-jr: still thinking about it
7452021-04-22T23:06:07  <luke-jr> k
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