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  6 2021-04-22T00:20:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jamesob opened pull request #21746: refactor: init: mark fReset const (master...2021-04-freset-const) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21746
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  9 2021-04-22T00:54:50  <yanmaani> How come Bitcoin doesn't use a custom assert macro? That way, if NDEBUG is set, assert could be ((void)__VA_ARGS__) instead, allowing for compilation without assertions to be made.
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 12 2021-04-22T01:12:02  <luke-jr> yanmaani: afaik it's UB to redefine assert?
 13 2021-04-22T01:12:32  <yanmaani> luke-jr: if assert.h is included, yes
 14 2021-04-22T01:12:43  <yanmaani> but a custom assert macro, i.e. #define assert2(...) is OK
 15 2021-04-22T01:12:52  <yanmaani> and so is redefining assert() without including assert.h
 16 2021-04-22T01:13:34  <yanmaani> so `#ifdef NDEBUG #define assert(...) ((void)__VA_ARGS__) #else #include <assert.h> #endif` should be OK
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 18 2021-04-22T01:22:04  <yanmaani> Is there any easy way to get a CPubKey from a CScript or CTxDestination? Or do you simply have to re-implement the logic in SignStep/
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 20 2021-04-22T01:23:12  <yanmaani> Can you take the CScript, pass it into Solver(), and then case vSolutions[0] to a key ID?
 21 2021-04-22T01:23:18  <yanmaani> (a CKeyID)
 22 2021-04-22T01:27:09  <yanmaani> oh wait, ToKeyID(ExtractDestination(script)) should work right?
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 32 2021-04-22T03:25:46  <BlueMatt> yanmaani: bitcoin core generally has historically treated assert() as "if this isn't true, we probably have buggy hardware, or otherwise may lose funds, continuing is unsafe". so running without assertions is definitely *not* a goal
 33 2021-04-22T03:32:07  <jeremyrubin> keep in mind that it's much safer for the network *as a whole* to shut down as a result of an assertion violation than it is for an assumption to be violated
 34 2021-04-22T03:34:08  <jeremyrubin> but that sounds more like a wizards convo
 35 2021-04-22T03:43:28  <yanmaani> BlueMatt: true, but what if I want to...? but maybe then I should just take the 5 seconds to write another macro :P
 36 2021-04-22T03:43:44  <jeremyrubin> There's an Assume macro i think
 37 2021-04-22T03:43:46  <BlueMatt> what?
 38 2021-04-22T03:44:07  <yanmaani> jeremyrubin: Doesn't that do something else? "This is true else UB"
 39 2021-04-22T03:44:27  <jeremyrubin> no i think the RPCs use it to return errors
 40 2021-04-22T03:44:58  <BlueMatt> you asked why bitcoin core doesn't use something other than assert(), I answered why. There is, to my knowledge, nothing in bitcoin core that will abort() in a debug build and not in a release build, which appears to be what you want.
 41 2021-04-22T03:45:17  <BlueMatt> modulo a few subsystem-specific constructs
 42 2021-04-22T03:45:24  <jeremyrubin> yanmaani: if you want to get rid of then, best bet is to e.g. refactor code to not use pointers
 43 2021-04-22T03:45:30  <yanmaani> BlueMatt: right, I understand. And I can sort of see why it wouldn't be worthwhile to add it, either. Since it's a 5 second change and all.
 44 2021-04-22T03:45:50  <yanmaani> jeremyrubin: I was thinking of __builtin_assume, sorry
 45 2021-04-22T03:46:04  <jeremyrubin> There are a few good examples where we use ptrs that could be references or reference_wrappers
 46 2021-04-22T03:46:38  <jeremyrubin> so maybe try to refactor where we're using non nullable ptr asserts
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 49 2021-04-22T04:28:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] widecoin-project opened pull request #21748: 1.1 (master...1.1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21748
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 52 2021-04-22T04:29:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #21748: 1.1 (master...1.1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21748
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 74 2021-04-22T06:51:39  <jnewbery> yanmaani: I think you're looking for ASSUME(). Take a look in src/util/check.h
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 77 2021-04-22T07:28:43  <aj> jnewbery: too many caps
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 81 2021-04-22T07:39:07  <jnewbery> oh sorry, you're right. It's just Assume()
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 84 2021-04-22T07:53:31  <jnewbery> wumpus: MarcoFalke: I think #21009 is ready for merge. Two ACKs on the current branch, and additional ACKs on recent branches from jonatack and ariard.
 85 2021-04-22T07:53:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21009 | Remove RewindBlockIndex logic by dhruv · Pull Request #21009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 87 2021-04-22T07:55:18  <fanquake> jnewbery: The PR description at least needs rewriting, as it's no longer correct
 88 2021-04-22T07:55:55  <fanquake> i.e mentions "This PR introduces NeedsIBD()", and there is no NeedsIBD func introduced.
 89 2021-04-22T07:57:06  <fanquake> s/rewriting/updating
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100 2021-04-22T09:15:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #21749: test: Bump shellcheck version (master...210422-shell) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21749
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106 2021-04-22T09:30:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #21750: net: remove unnecessary check of CNode::cs_vSend (master...remove_unnecessary_check_of_CNode_cs_vSend) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21750
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110 2021-04-22T09:39:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] d8n77ru57 opened pull request #21751: Update nodes_main.txt (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21751
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113 2021-04-22T09:40:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #21751: Update nodes_main.txt (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21751
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115 2021-04-22T09:45:10  <fanquake> Am I missing something with the opening of description-less PRs, just to fill the description in shortly after?
116 2021-04-22T09:45:28  <fanquake> Why not just open it with the description, and avoid potential questions. i.e :https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21749#discussion_r618227797
117 2021-04-22T09:55:03  <hebasto> fanquake: sorry for that, it was opened as a draft
118 2021-04-22T10:06:41  <aj> https://lwn.net/Articles/853717/ yikes
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127 2021-04-22T10:21:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21752: scripted-diff: Clarify that feerates are per virtual size (master...2104-docFee) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21752
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130 2021-04-22T10:31:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e7776e20ed0d...aaf66413e123
131 2021-04-22T10:31:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5858057 practicalswift: net: Add IPv4ToString (we already have IPv6ToString)
132 2021-04-22T10:31:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 58580a8 practicalswift: net: Avoid calling getnameinfo when formatting IPv4 addresses in CNetAddr:...
133 2021-04-22T10:31:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master aaf6641 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#21564: net: Avoid calling getnameinfo when formattin...
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136 2021-04-22T10:32:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #21564: net: Avoid calling getnameinfo when formatting IPv4 addresses in CNetAddr::ToStringIP (master...simplify-ipv4-address-formatting) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21564
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139 2021-04-22T10:41:06  <jnewbery> fanquake: thanks. I've asked dhruv to update the description
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141 2021-04-22T11:00:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/aaf66413e123...4b5659c6b115
142 2021-04-22T11:00:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ce994e1 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: add tx modfication helper function in feature_cltv.py
143 2021-04-22T11:00:43  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8d0ce50 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: prepare cltv_invalidate to test all failure reasons in feature_cltv....
144 2021-04-22T11:00:44  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dbc1981 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: check that _all_ invalid-CLTV txs are allowed in a block pre-BIP65
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147 2021-04-22T11:01:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #19801: test: check for all possible OP_CLTV fail reasons in feature_cltv.py (BIP 65) (master...20200825-test-check-all-failure-reasons-for-CLTV) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/19801
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150 2021-04-22T11:04:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #21753: doc: add -addrinfo to tor docs (master...tor-doc-addrinfo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21753
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169 2021-04-22T12:31:47  <provoostenator> Alright,  I marked the external signer GUI PR  as ready for review... https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/4
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217 2021-04-22T15:11:02  <dhruvm> fanquake: jnewbery: Updated #21009 description.
218 2021-04-22T15:11:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21009 | Remove RewindBlockIndex logic by dhruv · Pull Request #21009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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222 2021-04-22T15:18:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #21754: test: Run feature_cltv with MiniWallet (master...2104-testCltvNoWallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21754
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226 2021-04-22T15:22:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prayank23 opened pull request #21755: Add more info about prefix in error message for invalid address (master...error-address) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21755
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230 2021-04-22T15:32:48  <jnewbery> thanks dhruvm
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245 2021-04-22T17:00:07  <yanmaani> In the test framework, is there any way to import a specific private key and use it as change?
246 2021-04-22T17:01:04  <yanmaani> There's an arg "keypool" in importmulti, but it says "Only allowed when wallet private keys are disabled"
247 2021-04-22T17:04:42  <jeremyrubin> MarcoFalke: was curious if you have any advice on where I should create/put test vectors for BIP-119
248 2021-04-22T17:05:03  <jeremyrubin> There seems to be like 5 different places static test vectors go, including a separate repo
249 2021-04-22T17:05:29  <jeremyrubin> Someone asked for me to make them, which is actually very easy, but deciding where they go is not as simple
250 2021-04-22T17:05:52  <jeremyrubin> Also it's not clear if they are in the QA repo if i need to make my branch do a submodule update or something?
251 2021-04-22T17:06:13  <yanmaani> also, I don't even get the error thrown when I try to import privkeys into it
252 2021-04-22T17:07:01  <yanmaani> Is it even possible, or should I just make a wallet.dat file with the keys hardcoded?
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296 2021-04-22T18:14:39  <MarcoFalke> jeremyrubin: How many vectors are there?
297 2021-04-22T18:15:09  <jeremyrubin> Well I don't even know which ones would be helpful?
298 2021-04-22T18:15:26  <jeremyrubin> Using sapio I can churn out ~infinite vectors in 5 minutes of work
299 2021-04-22T18:15:43  <MarcoFalke> Nice. Then pick the ones that are orthorgonal
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301 2021-04-22T18:16:35  <MarcoFalke> The minimal set that maximizes branch coverage
302 2021-04-22T18:16:57  <jeremyrubin> Where should they live since they require TX Context?
303 2021-04-22T18:17:05  <jeremyrubin> just a vector of txs?
304 2021-04-22T18:17:38  <MarcoFalke> they require the prevout or more of the previous tx?
305 2021-04-22T18:20:26  <jeremyrubin> nope
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307 2021-04-22T18:22:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] practicalswift opened pull request #21756: Avoid calling `getnameinfo` when formatting IPv6 addresses in `CNetAddr::ToStringIP` (master...simplify-ipv6-address-formatting) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21756
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309 2021-04-22T18:25:00  <MarcoFalke> Looks like there shouldn't be too many branches
310 2021-04-22T18:25:26  <MarcoFalke> Basically it just checks a hash
311 2021-04-22T18:25:39  <MarcoFalke> And some size-edge cases
312 2021-04-22T18:26:41  <MarcoFalke> Just looking at the functional tests. Do you think they are exhaustive?
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314 2021-04-22T18:28:42  <jeremyrubin> let me re-read them...
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316 2021-04-22T18:29:55  <jeremyrubin> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21702/files#diff-01837f5d48dbb3b478560986d868bd0a445cc792f00da44621b0a7b835f973d8R103-R112
317 2021-04-22T18:30:00  <jeremyrubin> I think so?
318 2021-04-22T18:30:14  <jeremyrubin> only missing is Taproot
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321 2021-04-22T18:35:17  <MarcoFalke> Looks like you are using randomness and variable tree size, but that shouldn't increase coverage I guess because verification doesn't concern itself with depth
322 2021-04-22T18:36:13  <MarcoFalke> So if there are just ~10 vectors you could hardcode them in hex or json and add them to the BIP
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324 2021-04-22T18:37:08  <MarcoFalke> If there are thousands of vectors, it might be better to add them to qa-assets repo
325 2021-04-22T18:37:49  <MarcoFalke> You could still include the nicest ones in the BIP, I guess
326 2021-04-22T18:38:29  <MarcoFalke> It is mostly up to you, but for the Bitcoin Core repo we try to avoid commiting large blobs
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328 2021-04-22T18:41:42  <jeremyrubin> yeah maybe i'll just print some small ones
329 2021-04-22T18:42:12  <jeremyrubin> Should I add a taproot case to the rpc test?
330 2021-04-22T18:43:59  <jeremyrubin> Do i need a p2sh one which is kinda mathematically impossible?
331 2021-04-22T18:44:09  <jeremyrubin> I guess I can test that it fails..
332 2021-04-22T18:47:09  <MarcoFalke> yanmaani: Yes, it is possible to import private keys in tests (just like you would "normally")
333 2021-04-22T18:47:40  <MarcoFalke> Jup, failing test cases are just as useful as passing ones
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337 2021-04-22T19:00:00  <wumpus> #startmeeting
338 2021-04-22T19:00:00  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 22 19:00:00 2021 UTC.  The chair is wumpus. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
339 2021-04-22T19:00:00  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
340 2021-04-22T19:00:11  <meshcollider> hi
341 2021-04-22T19:00:16  <hebasto> hi
342 2021-04-22T19:00:17  <luke-jr> hi
343 2021-04-22T19:00:18  <gleb> Hi
344 2021-04-22T19:00:21  <ariard> hi
345 2021-04-22T19:00:21  <jnewbery> hi
346 2021-04-22T19:00:25  <michaelfolkson> hi
347 2021-04-22T19:00:27  <wumpus> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
348 2021-04-22T19:00:29  <wumpus> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
349 2021-04-22T19:00:31  <glozow> hi
350 2021-04-22T19:00:34  <jeremyrubin> hi
351 2021-04-22T19:01:03  *** murchin <murchin!04355c72@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
352 2021-04-22T19:01:07  <wumpus> one proposed meeting topic for today: adding a second BIP editor (jnewbery)
353 2021-04-22T19:01:20  <achow101> hi
354 2021-04-22T19:01:26  <luke-jr> Great idea, but this is neither an appropriate time nor venue for that discussion.
355 2021-04-22T19:01:27  <wumpus> any last minute topic proposals?
356 2021-04-22T19:01:28  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic 0.20.2
357 2021-04-22T19:02:23  <wumpus> #topic High priority for review
358 2021-04-22T19:02:24  <core-meetingbot> topic: High priority for review
359 2021-04-22T19:02:42  <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  has 10 blockers, no bugfixes and nothing chasing concept ACK
360 2021-04-22T19:02:56  <wumpus> anything to add / remove or that is ready to merge?
361 2021-04-22T19:03:42  <ariard> #19160 has 5 acks
362 2021-04-22T19:03:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19160 | multiprocess: Add basic spawn and IPC support by ryanofsky · Pull Request #19160 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
363 2021-04-22T19:04:04  <jonatack> hi
364 2021-04-22T19:04:10  <wumpus> ariard: good to know, thanks
365 2021-04-22T19:04:11  <jonatack> may i add #21261?
366 2021-04-22T19:04:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21261 | p2p: update inbound eviction protection for multiple networks, add I2P peers by jonatack · Pull Request #21261 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
367 2021-04-22T19:04:52  <wumpus> jonatack: added!
368 2021-04-22T19:04:59  <jonatack> thanks!
369 2021-04-22T19:05:20  <yanmaani> MarcoFalke: How do I do that, while adding them to the keypool?
370 2021-04-22T19:05:36  <wumpus> yanmaani: meeting in progress, please delay other discussion until after it
371 2021-04-22T19:05:44  <yanmaani> I can import public keys with importmulti, but that doesn't support adding private keys as change
372 2021-04-22T19:05:59  <jnewbery> yanmaani: after meeting, please
373 2021-04-22T19:06:55  <wumpus> #topic Adding a second BIP editor (jnewbery)
374 2021-04-22T19:06:55  <core-meetingbot> topic: Adding a second BIP editor (jnewbery)
375 2021-04-22T19:06:58  *** deJavu <deJavu!4ebb29bb@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
376 2021-04-22T19:07:12  <jnewbery> hi
377 2021-04-22T19:07:20  <jnewbery> luke-jr has been the sole BIP editor for several years, and it seems like he's now overstretched and only able to look at the repo about once a month
378 2021-04-22T19:07:42  <jnewbery> I suggest that we lighten his load by adding a second BIP editor. BIP2 allows multiple BIP editors and refers to plural BIP editors in several places, eg "The BIP editors are intended to fulfill administrative and editorial responsibilities. The BIP editors monitor BIP changes, and update BIP headers as appropriate."
379 2021-04-22T19:07:54  <wumpus> would make sense imo
380 2021-04-22T19:08:00  <jnewbery> kallewoof has recently offered to help with BIP repo maintainence:
381 2021-04-22T19:08:00  <jnewbery> 15:43 < kallewoof> luke-jr: on a serious note, if you want help with the bip maintenance stuff, i'll gladly assist.
382 2021-04-22T19:08:19  <jnewbery> If he's willing, I propose that add him as a second BIP editor.
383 2021-04-22T19:08:30  <achow101> Seems like something to discuss on the mailing list really
384 2021-04-22T19:08:35  <luke-jr> ^
385 2021-04-22T19:08:39  <MarcoFalke> ACK, but seems off topic for this channel
386 2021-04-22T19:08:56  <sipa> i agree with jnewbery's idea, but ut's something to discuss on the ML
387 2021-04-22T19:09:01  <jnewbery> Lots of us know kallewoof. I believe he's trustworthy and perfectly capable of fulfilling the required administrative and editorial responsibilities.
388 2021-04-22T19:09:26  <ariard> i agree on the motivation but same something to discuss on the ml
389 2021-04-22T19:09:27  <wumpus> it's something to *decide* on the ML, but it's fine to discuss it here once imo
390 2021-04-22T19:09:34  <luke-jr> FWIW, I did discuss it further with kalle privately; but IMO the timing is very poor for adding another editor right now
391 2021-04-22T19:09:45  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: why?
392 2021-04-22T19:09:46  <jnewbery> luke-jr: why is the timing poor?
393 2021-04-22T19:10:22  <luke-jr> it seems motivated by an effort to give special treatment to a certain PR, which I hear might be "weaponised" for deceptive propaganda
394 2021-04-22T19:10:40  <jeremyrubin> I agree with ML, but also maybe we can add a *temporary editor* if current editors have been too busy in the short term
395 2021-04-22T19:10:51  <luke-jr> would be better to wait until any such concerns are gone
396 2021-04-22T19:11:16  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: What do you mean with "special treatment"?
397 2021-04-22T19:11:18  <jnewbery> I trust that kallewoof would not give special treatment to any PR. The editor's role is not to show preference/dispreference to PRs.
398 2021-04-22T19:12:12  <wumpus> right the role of BIP editors is to follow the BIP1/2 process, not to pass personal judgement on BIPs besides very basic style criteria
399 2021-04-22T19:12:14  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: rushed merging outside the usual triage, without full consideration to the factors in concluding it's RTM
400 2021-04-22T19:12:19  <jeremyrubin> What sort of breach of duty under the BIP-0002 defined role would an additional editor make?
401 2021-04-22T19:12:50  <michaelfolkson> It is a tricky situation, the aforementioned PR. I'd like to discuss it and how this type of scenario should be treated in future but better when things have calmed down I think
402 2021-04-22T19:12:55  <jeremyrubin> As far as you've represented previously, you haven't had time to even look at the BIP341 changes which is why it's not merged.
403 2021-04-22T19:12:56  *** sipa <sipa!~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
404 2021-04-22T19:13:08  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: right, maybe it's fine, I don't know
405 2021-04-22T19:13:20  <jnewbery> luke-jr: if you believe that kallewoof is unsuitable and wouldn't fulfil the editor role faithfully, then perhaps you could spell out why you have that concern. It'd save time on the mailing list
406 2021-04-22T19:13:53  <jeremyrubin> +1 jnewbery
407 2021-04-22T19:14:01  <luke-jr> jnewbery: I'm not saying he is unsuitable.
408 2021-04-22T19:14:05  <jeremyrubin> as per BIP-0002, which would need ammending to add kallewoof, BIP authors are responsible for collecting community feedback on both the initial idea and the BIP before submitting it for review. However, wherever possible, long open-ended discussions on public mailing lists should be avoided
409 2021-04-22T19:14:09  <jnewbery> so what's the concern with timing?
410 2021-04-22T19:14:38  <luke-jr> jnewbery: I already summarised.
411 2021-04-22T19:14:42  <jeremyrubin> so if kallewoof is controversial, or an editor, even if better suited to decide on mailing list, we should flesh out what adding an editor means before then
412 2021-04-22T19:14:57  <jeremyrubin> *an addtl editor
413 2021-04-22T19:16:00  <jeremyrubin> I'm also very concerned with "weaponised" for deceptive propagand'
414 2021-04-22T19:16:07  <jnewbery> luke-jr: let me restate your points. Correct me where I go wrong: now is not a good time because a new editor might show preferential treatment to a certain PR. But we don't believe kallewoof would show preferential treatment to PRs. So what's the timing concern
415 2021-04-22T19:16:24  <jeremyrubin> Is this something we need to be preparing for? Like when the copyright claims were made on the whitepaper?
416 2021-04-22T19:17:24  <luke-jr> jnewbery: because the motivation appears to be to get preferential treatment; I have been hit with a lot of nagging, apparently for the purposes of passing off ST as "the" activation method period
417 2021-04-22T19:17:44  <jnewbery> ok, so the concern is not timing, but motivation?
418 2021-04-22T19:17:51  <luke-jr> jnewbery: it would be better to add an editor when there isn't such things going on
419 2021-04-22T19:18:16  <michaelfolkson> Shall we continue on the mailing list as previously suggested?
420 2021-04-22T19:18:19  <wumpus> ok... I don't think this is particularly constructive, let's move it further to the mailing list
421 2021-04-22T19:18:21  <wumpus> yes
422 2021-04-22T19:18:32  <jeremyrubin> noting that it's against BIP-0002 to proceed on mailing list
423 2021-04-22T19:18:36  *** murchin is now known as murch
424 2021-04-22T19:18:38  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: wut?
425 2021-04-22T19:18:51  <jeremyrubin> "long open-ended discussions on public mailing lists should be avoided"
426 2021-04-22T19:19:00  <luke-jr> sigh
427 2021-04-22T19:19:21  <wumpus> they should be avoided in the weekly core IRC meeting too
428 2021-04-22T19:19:23  <jnewbery> I'm happy to draft an email to the mailing list, but I'd like to understand the process. What's the process for adding an editor? How does it get decided?
429 2021-04-22T19:19:58  <ariard> jeremyrubin: on the other point, I don't think bip2 recommend bitcoin-core-dev as a venue, maybe better suitted to #bitcoin or #bitcoin-wizards
430 2021-04-22T19:20:22  <luke-jr> jnewbery: in the past, it's been the existing editor passes it on, but when I intended to do that in 2018 I found people privately didn't like it, so wider involvement might be better
431 2021-04-22T19:20:30  <jeremyrubin> well I think it's sort of a weird bind, as luke-jr is the author of 0002 who has the only right to amend it
432 2021-04-22T19:20:40  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: BIP 2 doesn't need to be amended for this
433 2021-04-22T19:20:47  <jeremyrubin> and he's also the editor who judge amendement
434 2021-04-22T19:20:56  <jeremyrubin> so I think jnewbery is right to ask what the heck the process is
435 2021-04-22T19:21:29  <jeremyrubin> I would expect https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0002.mediawiki#bip-editors to be updated
436 2021-04-22T19:21:40  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: I agree it is a bind but binds aren't solved best overnight
437 2021-04-22T19:21:42  <luke-jr> IMO what would make sense, is when the timing is reasonable/calm, I can just propose Kalle to the ML and if nobody objects we add him to the README or whatever
438 2021-04-22T19:21:59  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: ah, forgot about that
439 2021-04-22T19:22:13  <jnewbery> it does seem somewhat of a centralization problem. The BIPs repo is a venue for sharing proposed changes to Bitcoin, and one person decides who can update it, and also decides whether or not they should ever be replaced/supplemented?
440 2021-04-22T19:22:32  <wumpus> yes
441 2021-04-22T19:22:34  <meshcollider> jeremyrubin: I interpret that "long winded discussion" bit to be about the BIPs themselves, not the process of adding an editor
442 2021-04-22T19:22:37  <luke-jr> jnewbery: seems like it would be good to have the editor cycle every year or two
443 2021-04-22T19:22:38  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: I think that given conflict of interest you should just appoint a disterested editor/owner for BIP-0002
444 2021-04-22T19:22:48  <harding> luke-jr: I don't agree with the timing issues, but until they're resolved to your satisfaction, is there something we can do to provide you with additional availability so that you can review BIP PRs in a timely manner?
445 2021-04-22T19:23:03  <jonatack> meshcollider: same
446 2021-04-22T19:23:40  <jeremyrubin> meshcollider: it's a self-reference bug of how we defined editorship; I agree it should be fixed!
447 2021-04-22T19:23:55  <luke-jr> harding: hmm, I'm not sure. any suggestions?
448 2021-04-22T19:24:27  <jeremyrubin> Is it displacing paid consulting work or something? How long do you estimate editing work would take?
449 2021-04-22T19:24:33  <luke-jr> (I do expect I can get to it before the signalling begins, either way)
450 2021-04-22T19:25:02  <harding> luke-jr: take over some other work of yours?  Help pay for your lawn maintenance person?  Something like that?
451 2021-04-22T19:25:06  <michaelfolkson> I think in summary luke-jr is happy at some point to add an additional editor, appears to be happy with kallewoof if that is the eventual choice but doesn't want it rushed overnight to fix a PR merge issue
452 2021-04-22T19:25:11  <jonatack> luke-jr: naive suggestion, maybe just take a few minutes to review the PR in question and merge it, issue resolved?
453 2021-04-22T19:25:12  <luke-jr> as a reminder, though, BIPs *are* just documentation, so there really shouldn't need to be a rush
454 2021-04-22T19:26:23  <michaelfolkson> I don't this is productive at this point. An email to the mailing list informing the BIP community that an additional editor is sought is probably a good next step
455 2021-04-22T19:26:27  <jeremyrubin> Well it might be helpful for those implementing ST compatibility for the reference doc for activation to be the latest draft
456 2021-04-22T19:26:38  <jnewbery> I think that for a project that strives for decentralization, a situation where one person has a role and gets to decide whether they should ever be replaced is completely unsuitable
457 2021-04-22T19:26:45  <jeremyrubin> AJ's PR does not move 341 to final IIRC (altho perhaps it should be Active)
458 2021-04-22T19:27:19  <michaelfolkson> jnewbery: luke-jr is saying he is happy to add an additional editor (just not in a rushed manner)
459 2021-04-22T19:27:26  <luke-jr> harding: right now, I'm churning through dealing with the rebase of BIP8 on top of the ST stuff. I suppose that might go faster if there were people willing to review it. But frankly then it almost sounds like I'm holding the BIPs hostage, and I don't want to do that either.
460 2021-04-22T19:27:30  <yanmaani> jnewbery: Do the BIP editors have any actual power?
461 2021-04-22T19:28:07  <yanmaani> I mean, if they'd start to NACK things in bad faith, you could just figure something out if that happens. It doesn't seem like a catastrophic issue.
462 2021-04-22T19:28:16  <jnewbery> yanmaani: in theory, no. But if a BIP editor were acting unfaithfully they could do something like hold up the merge of a PR that the authors had all ACKed
463 2021-04-22T19:28:23  <ariard> quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
464 2021-04-22T19:28:24  <jeremyrubin> What if we just Cordon off the section of the AJ's PR and add a patch that says *activation logic pending further bip editing review, but merged in public information interest*
465 2021-04-22T19:29:31  <michaelfolkson> There are no other topics right? This doesn't seem to be going anywhere
466 2021-04-22T19:29:39  <wumpus> there is another topic
467 2021-04-22T19:29:44  *** Talkless <Talkless!~Talkless@mail.dargis.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
468 2021-04-22T19:29:49  <jnewbery> wumpus: I don't think this one is done
469 2021-04-22T19:30:00  <jnewbery> I'm still not clear on what the process is for adding a new BIP editor
470 2021-04-22T19:30:05  <jeremyrubin> This might be an uncomfortable conversation but I think it's important
471 2021-04-22T19:30:13  <jnewbery> jeremyrubin: +1
472 2021-04-22T19:30:54  <luke-jr> jnewbery: kallewoof was also AIUI planning to write a new BIP to replace BIP 2. maybe this is another topic to resolve in it.
473 2021-04-22T19:31:09  <jnewbery> if the answer is "a new BIP editor is added when and only when luke-jr wants to", then I think we need to change that
474 2021-04-22T19:31:12  <luke-jr> I don't think the current situation is well-defined
475 2021-04-22T19:31:17  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: The only factor to consider merging a change is whether the bip author(s) are ok with a change
476 2021-04-22T19:31:20  <jeremyrubin> I think the main thing is that it seems like procedure stalling over AJ's PR
477 2021-04-22T19:31:30  <MarcoFalke> (well apart from formatting and technical feasibility, ....)
478 2021-04-22T19:31:35  <jeremyrubin> I think we *should* fix the process. We should also merge AJ's PR.
479 2021-04-22T19:31:42  <jeremyrubin> We don't need to depend one on the other
480 2021-04-22T19:31:50  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: BIPs PRs merging slowly is not a new thing at all.
481 2021-04-22T19:32:19  <jeremyrubin> What, if anything, do you need to check in the PR and how long would it take you?
482 2021-04-22T19:32:33  <murch> I mean, signaling begins this week and it's not documented in a BIP yet.
483 2021-04-22T19:32:37  <wumpus> yea if the PR is ready for merge it should be merged, in the time of this discussion it could have been merged like 5 times
484 2021-04-22T19:32:42  <jeremyrubin> Like IMO it seems like less time than this meeting is taken?
485 2021-04-22T19:32:44  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: +1
486 2021-04-22T19:33:18  <glozow> I don't understand why the process for adding a new editor would be different based on timing or what PRs are open on the repo
487 2021-04-22T19:33:55  <jnewbery> I also don't understand that. The two things can be handled separately.
488 2021-04-22T19:34:03  <luke-jr> murch: signalling does not begin this week
489 2021-04-22T19:34:17  <michaelfolkson> Someone should propose a process for formalizing the adding a new BIP editor to the mailing list
490 2021-04-22T19:34:18  <murch> starttime = 2021-04-24 00:00 UTC
491 2021-04-22T19:34:23  <wumpus> people really want to see it merged, no one disagrees strongly, why not just cooporate luke-jr, i don't really see why we need to escalate this to add a new editor right now
492 2021-04-22T19:34:29  <meshcollider> BIP PRs merging being merged historically is not a reason to continue being slow forever
493 2021-04-22T19:34:39  <jonatack> wumpus: same. I don't understand what's to be gained here.
494 2021-04-22T19:34:41  <meshcollider> Being merged slowly*
495 2021-04-22T19:35:00  <jnewbery> BIP PRs being merged slowly historically is more evidence that we need to spread the load of BIP repo maintainership
496 2021-04-22T19:35:07  <luke-jr> wumpus: I have the impression people who really want to see it merged, are for deceptive purposes, and that there is ongoing arguments over it on the PR
497 2021-04-22T19:35:23  <luke-jr> wumpus: maybe it is RTM, but I don't expect it's 5 minutes to figure out
498 2021-04-22T19:35:27  <jeremyrubin> also being merged slowly for random things is different than being merged slowly *after being asked for accelerated process*
499 2021-04-22T19:35:35  <michaelfolkson> glozow: luke-jr is of the view that this is only being requested at this time because of a specific PR merge decision. And it does seem that way
500 2021-04-22T19:35:39  <achow101> luke-jr: it has ACKs from all 3 BIP authors, is that not sufficient?
501 2021-04-22T19:35:39  <jnewbery> luke-jr: it doesn't matter whether there are 'ongoing arguments'. The three authors have all ACKed it
502 2021-04-22T19:35:39  <luke-jr> murch: it's the first diff adjustment after that date
503 2021-04-22T19:35:40  <jeremyrubin> harding asked you days ago to do it prior to this optech
504 2021-04-22T19:35:52  <wumpus> separately from that we probably need a new BIP editor, and a process for that, but rushing into that after years of no one showing a single interest in being BIP editor is also a bit strange
505 2021-04-22T19:35:53  <harding> luke-jr: I can link you directly to each of the authors ACKs.
506 2021-04-22T19:36:09  <jnewbery> wumpus: kallewoof has shown interest in helping
507 2021-04-22T19:36:11  <luke-jr> jnewbery: maybe so. I haven't looked.
508 2021-04-22T19:36:30  <jnewbery> luke-jr: very good. Maybe having an extra editor would help
509 2021-04-22T19:36:30  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: I've seen others express interest, but lack of clarity around process and not wanting to insult the current editor
510 2021-04-22T19:36:50  <luke-jr> jnewbery: again, I agree. we should add an editor. I just don't think doing so for this specifically is good timing.
511 2021-04-22T19:37:09  <jnewbery> I'm not suggesting we do it for this specifically
512 2021-04-22T19:37:22  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: If there are other possible candidates other than kallewoof it needs a process
513 2021-04-22T19:37:34  <meshcollider> luke-jr: in the meantime it seems very trivial to go and check the ACKs and then merge it then before proposing the new editor, which would solve the controversial timing issue
514 2021-04-22T19:37:53  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: are there other candidates?
515 2021-04-22T19:37:55  <wumpus> meshcollider: right
516 2021-04-22T19:38:05  <jeremyrubin> ANd I agree it can be discussed on the mailing list
517 2021-04-22T19:38:11  <jnewbery> I'm still curious what the process is for adding a new BIP editor
518 2021-04-22T19:38:12  <jeremyrubin> but jnewbery asked a simple question, what's the process
519 2021-04-22T19:38:13  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: "I've seen others express interest,"
520 2021-04-22T19:38:18  <murch> So, I see two conflicting statements: you haven't checked whether all three bip authors have acked it, and that would be sufficient, but it would take you more than 5 minutes to figure out. How about you check now. We have a minute.
521 2021-04-22T19:38:37  <jeremyrubin> and luke answered in essence when I say so
522 2021-04-22T19:38:42  <luke-jr> meshcollider: but with people trying to politicise it, passing it off as "the activation method" and such, I need to evaluate if the BIP process has any rules/precedent dealing with such things
523 2021-04-22T19:38:42  <jeremyrubin> which isn't really a process
524 2021-04-22T19:39:07  <jeremyrubin> I don't think that we need one or two editors, anyone who wants to and is qualified can be added with reasonable support
525 2021-04-22T19:39:20  <michaelfolkson> jnewbery: The process has not been formalized. If you could draft up a formalized process for the mailing list that would be a productive step
526 2021-04-22T19:39:21  <luke-jr> meshcollider: (I don't think it does, but I'm not certain.)
527 2021-04-22T19:39:23  <jeremyrubin> I think 3-5 editors is probably a good amount, odd # preferred
528 2021-04-22T19:39:49  <michaelfolkson> Next topic....?
529 2021-04-22T19:39:50  <ariard> i think the best answer we have is we don't have a process to add a new bip editor for now and it's a wider community concern than scope of core dev meeting, so better mailing list
530 2021-04-22T19:40:21  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: if you think the optics of adding an editor now are bad, recognize your role in creating the neccessity of it
531 2021-04-22T19:40:35  <wumpus> clearly there is no process for it at the moment
532 2021-04-22T19:40:44  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: that's nonsense.
533 2021-04-22T19:40:54  <wumpus> like jeremyrubin says we could just add one if there is sufficient support for it
534 2021-04-22T19:41:00  <glozow> so we are in agreement that jnewbery should draft a proposal for the process and send it to the mailing list?
535 2021-04-22T19:41:04  <wumpus> then agin I'd prefer if luke-jr  agreed
536 2021-04-22T19:41:07  <luke-jr> glozow: sounds good to me
537 2021-04-22T19:41:11  <jeremyrubin> I think that -- by your own admission -- you've said there is an appearance that you're holding the BIP hostage
538 2021-04-22T19:41:31  <luke-jr> if jnewbery is okay with that
539 2021-04-22T19:41:35  <jnewbery> wumpus: there is certainly sufficient support for it
540 2021-04-22T19:41:43  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: stop twisting my words
541 2021-04-22T19:41:45  <jeremyrubin> That appearance serves to delegitimize the BIP process itself, which is also bad... remove yourself from the situation, just appoint a temporary editor for this BIP
542 2021-04-22T19:41:59  <jeremyrubin> and then let jnewbery take his time to propose a new process
543 2021-04-22T19:42:11  <jeremyrubin> this seems to be a natural compromise
544 2021-04-22T19:42:13  <wumpus> jnewbery: that was fairly clear
545 2021-04-22T19:42:30  <wumpus> jnewbery: I think you can just propose adding kallewoof as BIP editor on the mailing list and see what the response is
546 2021-04-22T19:42:41  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: works for me
547 2021-04-22T19:43:04  <jnewbery> wumpus: who is able to add an editor?
548 2021-04-22T19:43:10  *** cguida <cguida!~Adium@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
549 2021-04-22T19:43:18  <meshcollider> Any admin of the Bitcoin org
550 2021-04-22T19:43:23  <wumpus> if you mean as to github permissions: any admin of the github org
551 2021-04-22T19:43:25  <wumpus> yes
552 2021-04-22T19:43:40  <jeremyrubin> so you or sipa?
553 2021-04-22T19:44:08  <jnewbery> So what would an admin need in order to be satisfied that such support existed?
554 2021-04-22T19:44:19  <jnewbery> And therefore add a new editor
555 2021-04-22T19:44:24  <michaelfolkson> Is this PR an emergency? Because I am not aware it is...
556 2021-04-22T19:44:53  <wumpus> i would prefer if luke-jr agreed to it
557 2021-04-22T19:45:26  <jeremyrubin> wumpus: by what process would you ignore your preference? it seems unlikely luke-jr would agree
558 2021-04-22T19:45:30  *** cguida <cguida!~Adium@> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
559 2021-04-22T19:45:34  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: quit trolling
560 2021-04-22T19:45:35  <wumpus> but also agree that this is very centralized right now and if he seems to be blocking things, that is not good optics and such either
561 2021-04-22T19:46:00  <luke-jr> wumpus: I'm not blocking anything. Just doing the same as I have for every other PR for years.
562 2021-04-22T19:46:10  <jeremyrubin> luke-jr: I don't think it's appropriate for you, the bip editor, to call trying to understand how you've ensconced yourself as editor, trolling.
563 2021-04-22T19:46:19  <jnewbery> it's not that it's bad optics. It's bad process for the project. And it's a waste of everyone's time
564 2021-04-22T19:46:34  <michaelfolkson> Is this an emergency PR? If it is I agree it needs emergency measures. If it isn't I think this is a waste of time for all of us
565 2021-04-22T19:46:52  <ariard> imo it's not a good precedent to have admin of the github org substituting to the lack of bip editor appointment process
566 2021-04-22T19:47:00  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: it's not a waste of time as this conversation does have to happen now or in the future
567 2021-04-22T19:47:03  <jnewbery> ariard: there is no process
568 2021-04-22T19:47:14  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: and that is true absent the current PR in question
569 2021-04-22T19:47:21  <luke-jr> there are several outstanding issues with BIP 2 that should be revised. I think we identified one more. seems like the action path is best to work on a new BIP to replace BIP 2.
570 2021-04-22T19:47:25  <michaelfolkson> jeremyrubin: It would be easier to have this conversation without this cloud though
571 2021-04-22T19:47:38  <wumpus> ariard: agree
572 2021-04-22T19:47:48  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: I disagree -- then it would be "we have other more pressing things, why have this stupid debate now"
573 2021-04-22T19:47:51  <ariard> jnewbery: we agree on the lack of process, i'm marking my disagreement on fallbacking to github org admins
574 2021-04-22T19:47:55  <luke-jr> ariard: there is precedent for BIP editor to add BIP editors; so no problem assuming we wait for reasonable timing
575 2021-04-22T19:48:09  <wumpus> ariard: then again i'm just trying to do what people in the project want
576 2021-04-22T19:48:10  <jnewbery> luke-jr: that in itself is a problem
577 2021-04-22T19:48:13  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: there's no good time, place, etc for this convo because it's fundamental stupid procedure issues
578 2021-04-22T19:48:20  <wumpus> ariard: if everyone wants kallewoof as BIP editor i'm going to add him
579 2021-04-22T19:48:27  <jnewbery> wumpus: +1
580 2021-04-22T19:48:29  <jeremyrubin> michaelfolkson: but it's still necessary
581 2021-04-22T19:48:40  <harding> +1 kallewoof as BIP editor
582 2021-04-22T19:48:43  *** ctrlbreak_MAD is now known as ctrlbreak
583 2021-04-22T19:48:46  <jeremyrubin> +1 kallewoof
584 2021-04-22T19:49:09  <ariard> wumpus: yes but i think the discussion belongs wider than a core dev meeting, and we should seek consensus on the mailing list
585 2021-04-22T19:49:12  <wumpus> i do prefer it to be proposed on the ML as well
586 2021-04-22T19:49:13  <jeremyrubin> (I'm also +1 to ~anyone else who cares to be editor)
587 2021-04-22T19:49:21  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: a good time is when it's not being used as a tool toward some other purpose
588 2021-04-22T19:49:24  <michaelfolkson> Not knowing the other candidates I wouldn't oppose kallewoof. I don't like it being rushed because of a PR though
589 2021-04-22T19:49:33  <jeremyrubin> we can seek some rough consensus here tho; to make sure it's not wasting mailing list time
590 2021-04-22T19:49:44  <meshcollider> +1 kallewoof with a ML proposal too
591 2021-04-22T19:49:44  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: i think we have consensus here now
592 2021-04-22T19:49:47  <jeremyrubin> if kallewoof is fundamentally objectionable someone should say so
593 2021-04-22T19:49:57  <wumpus> jeremyrubin: no one here is disagreeing on it, just about timing
594 2021-04-22T19:50:14  <jeremyrubin> this reminds me of soft forks and signalling vs not signalling...
595 2021-04-22T19:50:24  <jeremyrubin> there's value in "people said ok" v.s. "no one disagreed"
596 2021-04-22T19:50:25  <jnewbery> wumpus: very happy to send a post to the mailing list asking for anyone to step forward with objections. If no-one has a reasonable objection within a week or so, then perhaps we should go ahead and do it
597 2021-04-22T19:50:27  <ariard> jeremyrubin: right that's a first step but you have a lot of others community dev involved in the bip process than only core
598 2021-04-22T19:50:31  <jnewbery> I think that's a fair process
599 2021-04-22T19:50:35  <wumpus> jnewbery:sgtm
600 2021-04-22T19:50:46  <jeremyrubin> ariard: yep, I'm not nacking going to mailing list
601 2021-04-22T19:51:02  <wumpus> ok, we have another topic ,so let's move on for now
602 2021-04-22T19:51:04  <meshcollider> luke-jr: as we said, if it's just that PR merge you're worried about for propoganda sake, please go and review it now before kalle is added, then there is no problem
603 2021-04-22T19:51:17  <luke-jr> meshcollider: yes, I probably will get a chance within that week timeframe
604 2021-04-22T19:51:19  <wumpus> #topic 0.20.2 (MarcoFalke)
605 2021-04-22T19:51:20  <core-meetingbot> topic: 0.20.2 (MarcoFalke)
606 2021-04-22T19:51:39  <MarcoFalke> Any objections to release 0.20.2 a week or two after 0.21.1?
607 2021-04-22T19:51:42  <luke-jr> 0.20 doesn't have Taproot logic, right?
608 2021-04-22T19:51:48  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: no taproot
609 2021-04-22T19:51:53  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: But bech32m
610 2021-04-22T19:51:59  <wumpus> what is the motivation ? ah right, makes sense then
611 2021-04-22T19:52:00  <luke-jr> at the very least that should be made very clear in the rel notes
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614 2021-04-22T19:52:17  *** mariorz <mariorz!sid490@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdbanvhdpkpvsjgx> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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616 2021-04-22T19:52:20  <MarcoFalke> Pretty sure sipa added release notes
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618 2021-04-22T19:52:23  *** dunk <dunk!sid16@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nfrknonsgbwopvzs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
619 2021-04-22T19:52:34  <jnewbery> MarcoFalke: will there be a taproot v0.20 release shortly after?
620 2021-04-22T19:52:41  *** mmitech___ <mmitech___!sid446259@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcebczregkmlpwrg> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
621 2021-04-22T19:52:43  <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: No, why?
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625 2021-04-22T19:53:11  <luke-jr> jnewbery: IIRC adding Taproot to 0.20 was a can of worms
626 2021-04-22T19:53:27  <jeremyrubin> i think if anyones not following the motivation is "I want to send to addresses people give me, but I run 0.20"
627 2021-04-22T19:53:45  <jnewbery> ah ok then. Never mind
628 2021-04-22T19:53:51  *** fjahr <fjahr!sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvvkqfeiyvkgcmqm> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
629 2021-04-22T19:54:05  <jeremyrubin> TBH I'm skeptical of value -- are bech32m addresses expected to be used before 0.20 falls out of service?
630 2021-04-22T19:54:08  <luke-jr> besides, it won't activate before November
631 2021-04-22T19:54:23  <MarcoFalke> At this point it might be questionable if anyone upgrades to 0.20.2 even, but we have everything prepared for the release
632 2021-04-22T19:54:30  <jeremyrubin> (and does a point release extend that deadline?)
633 2021-04-22T19:54:42  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: well, could do a rc1 and leave it at that if there's no feedback
634 2021-04-22T19:54:48  <jeremyrubin> if the question for the topic is just [4/22/21 12:51] <MarcoFalke> Any objections to release 0.20.2 a week or two after 0.21.1?
635 2021-04-22T19:54:53  <jeremyrubin> then i have no objection :)
636 2021-04-22T19:54:55  <murch> jeremyrubin: I think the bigger issue would be that 0.20.1 recognizes native segwit v1 addresses encoded as Bech32 as correct?
637 2021-04-22T19:55:19  <MarcoFalke> murch: It does
638 2021-04-22T19:55:35  <MarcoFalke> murch: Though, there should be no wallet that produces v1 addresses
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640 2021-04-22T19:56:40  <murch> Well, some wallets implemented experimental Taproot support before BIP350
641 2021-04-22T19:56:56  <luke-jr> but it can't be used before activation..
642 2021-04-22T19:57:35  *** fjahr <fjahr!sid374480@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmvomsklbhcubwkr> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
643 2021-04-22T19:57:49  <jeremyrubin> I think the benefits of releasing it as a compiled binary that a used can discover are relatively slim... that it has been backported at all is OK
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646 2021-04-22T19:58:09  <jeremyrubin> MarcoFalke: I think whatever you decide is OK with me
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654 2021-04-22T19:58:37  <MarcoFalke> It would be good to have some kind of process for this
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656 2021-04-22T19:58:51  <wumpus> there's not much overhead to doing a release so if someone wants a release we can do it
657 2021-04-22T19:58:59  <MarcoFalke> If the process is "just do an rc1", that's fine
658 2021-04-22T19:59:36  <luke-jr> rc1->final is where things are fuzzy; it makes sense to just not go final in some cases
659 2021-04-22T19:59:53  <luke-jr> if people want a final, they can test rc1 and report back
660 2021-04-22T20:00:02  <wumpus> yes
661 2021-04-22T20:00:13  <luke-jr> if not, it stays at rc1 - that's fine too
662 2021-04-22T20:00:22  <luke-jr> IMO
663 2021-04-22T20:00:43  <wumpus> sgtm, at least the backport has a tag then
664 2021-04-22T20:00:50  <MarcoFalke> ok
665 2021-04-22T20:00:52  <wumpus> so it doesn't get dropped when the branch goes away
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667 2021-04-22T20:01:05  <MarcoFalke> bedtime?
668 2021-04-22T20:01:07  <wumpus> (which isn't any time soon but still)
669 2021-04-22T20:01:13  <wumpus> yes, time to conclude the meeting
670 2021-04-22T20:01:18  <wumpus> #endmeeting
671 2021-04-22T20:01:18  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
672 2021-04-22T20:01:18  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Apr 22 20:01:18 2021 UTC.
673 2021-04-22T20:01:18  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-04-22-19.00.moin.txt
674 2021-04-22T20:01:30  <jonatack> ✨ o/
675 2021-04-22T20:02:15  <wumpus> speaking of releases i'm going to merge https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/0.21.1-Release-Notes-draft into the 0.21.1 release notes
676 2021-04-22T20:07:39  <yanmaani> In the test framework, is there any way to import a specific private key and use it as a change address?
677 2021-04-22T20:08:11  <wumpus> i see there's also a release notes fragment that needs to be merged in : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.21/doc/release-notes-20861.md
678 2021-04-22T20:10:53  <MarcoFalke> Jup, that is the bech32m change
679 2021-04-22T20:11:02  <MarcoFalke> Same release note should be in the 0.20 branch
680 2021-04-22T20:12:04  <MarcoFalke> oh, looks like it is not merged yet: #21470
681 2021-04-22T20:12:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21470 | BIP 350: Implement Bech32m and use it for v1+ segwit addresses (0.20 backport) by sipa · Pull Request #21470 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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685 2021-04-22T20:14:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 1 commit to 0.21: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5577e0a4867c...d97d0d31a6f4
686 2021-04-22T20:14:33  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.21 d97d0d3 W. J. van der Laan: doc: Merge release notes fragment, merge taproot description from wiki
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699 2021-04-22T20:43:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #21759: wallet: document coin selection code (master...2021-04-wallet-docs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21759
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720 2021-04-22T22:08:35  <luke-jr> done with the rebasing stuff, so I'll get to BIP PRs soon. but in the interest of getting the ball rolling for kalle, I drafted this email for the ML: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j7_rtK4U6z-Bn00yNLIwJp9ksF3bJW6wXgYO2KQ-0EA/edit?usp=sharing
721 2021-04-22T22:08:37  <luke-jr> anything to add?
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738 2021-04-22T22:56:52  <jeremyrubin> FWIW I think ACKs matter more than NACKs for adding an editor...
739 2021-04-22T22:57:37  <jeremyrubin> consent > lack of nonconsent
740 2021-04-22T23:00:23  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
741 2021-04-22T23:00:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Brightside56 opened pull request #21760: Add -flushwalletinterval command line arg (master...flushwalletinterval) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21760
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743 2021-04-22T23:00:40  <luke-jr> achow101: is https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1100 a NACK?
744 2021-04-22T23:05:58  <achow101> luke-jr: still thinking about it
745 2021-04-22T23:06:07  <luke-jr> k
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