1 2021-06-04T00:16:14  *** lightlike <lightlike!~lightlike@user/lightlike> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
  2 2021-06-04T00:18:28  <hebasto> something strange with github right now -- cannot checkout the latest `v0.20.2rc2` tag
  3 2021-06-04T00:18:47  <sipa> git fetch -t upstream ?
  4 2021-06-04T00:19:38  <hebasto> ah, `-t`-- yes, thank you
  5 2021-06-04T00:20:02  <hebasto> should go sleep, certainly
  6 2021-06-04T00:22:20  <hebasto> sipa: but usually `fetch` fetched tags without `-t`...
  7 2021-06-04T00:27:13  <achow101> I ran into that problem too. usually fetch fetches tags but for some reason it didn't today
  8 2021-06-04T00:27:53  <hebasto> is this tag a lightweight one?
  9 2021-06-04T00:29:58  <hebasto> oh, I found out -- https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5d2ebdd2b71fadfcbadc32d074c83e1ff92043b5 does not belong to the 0.20 branch
 10 2021-06-04T00:30:33  <achow101> ah, so laanwj forgot to push the branch itself
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 16 2021-06-04T03:38:08  <jarolrod> has boost been taking a long time to download using depends recently or is it just me
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 24 2021-06-04T05:26:13  <martinus> ankerl
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 47 2021-06-04T07:30:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22146: Reject invalid coin height and output index when loading assumeutxo (master...2106-auHeight) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22146
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 50 2021-06-04T07:48:14  *** lkqwejhhgasdjhgn <lkqwejhhgasdjhgn!~kljkljklk@p200300d46f03bc00ce1eb7ce7a269f20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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 52 2021-06-04T07:52:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c7dd9ff71b9c...a748782a11f0
 53 2021-06-04T07:52:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3d552b0 Sjors Provoost: [doc] explain why CheckBlock() is called before AcceptBlock()
 54 2021-06-04T07:52:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a748782 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#15545: [doc] explain why CheckBlock() is called befo...
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 57 2021-06-04T07:52:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #15545: [doc] explain why CheckBlock() is called before AcceptBlock (master...2019/03/clarify-checkblock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/15545
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 60 2021-06-04T08:04:53  <vasild> michaelfolkson: for me the meetings' time of the day is a showstopper
 61 2021-06-04T08:06:02  <michaelfolkson> vasild: Without doxing your specific location are you Asia Pacific timezone?
 62 2021-06-04T08:06:37  <vasild> michaelfolkson: I am in Central Europe (GMT+2)
 63 2021-06-04T08:07:29  <michaelfolkson> Oh ok, just other commitments in evenings? I am GMT+1 and timings are fine for me
 64 2021-06-04T08:07:52  <vasild> family time, dinner, sleep early :)
 65 2021-06-04T08:08:08  <michaelfolkson> Fair enough :)
 66 2021-06-04T08:08:18  <michaelfolkson> I feel bad for Asia Pacific people, often in the middle of the night for them
 67 2021-06-04T08:08:32  <vasild> yeah, that's even worse
 68 2021-06-04T08:11:54  <vasild> jnewbery: wrt running the fuzzer in CI, I did not follow the discussion closely, was something decided about it? It occurred to me that it makes sense to run the fuzzer on CI on every pull request using the pre-generated seeds if that increases the code coverage. E.g. if without the fuzzer a CI run gets 80% coverage of a pull and if with the fuzzer that gets to e.g. 85% then it makes sense to run
 69 2021-06-04T08:12:00  <vasild> it on every pull
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 71 2021-06-04T08:13:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 1 commit to 0.20: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8b5c83b4aa8c...5d2ebdd2b71f
 72 2021-06-04T08:13:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/0.20 5d2ebdd W. J. van der Laan: build: Bump version to 0.20.2rc2
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 74 2021-06-04T08:13:46  <MarcoFalke> laanwj: sipa: hebasto: Fixed by typing "git push bitcoin-core 5d2ebdd2b71fadfcbadc32d074c83e1ff92043b5:0.20"
 75 2021-06-04T08:14:23  <MarcoFalke> At least that fixed it for me: " * [new tag]               v0.20.2rc2 -> v0.20.2rc2"
 76 2021-06-04T08:15:26  <MarcoFalke> vasild: I'd be a hard NACK removing the fuzz tests. Might as well remove all other tests
 77 2021-06-04T08:16:21  <vasild> I agree, but this was discussed in a meeting recently, IIRC due to some sporadic timeouts
 78 2021-06-04T08:16:40  <_aj_> MarcoFalke: once #21496 is done, could run against the existing fuzz corpus without actually compiling for fuzzing -- could see that being worth a try
 79 2021-06-04T08:16:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21496 | fuzz: execute each file in dir without fuzz engine by AnthonyRonning · Pull Request #21496 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
 80 2021-06-04T08:18:01  <vasild> some problems in my pulls were discovered only by the fuzz+some-sanitizer CI
 81 2021-06-04T08:59:04  <laanwj> MarcoFalke: thanks for fixing it, i was wondering what went wrong
 82 2021-06-04T09:09:56  <michaelfolkson> vasild: I saw you added to P2P current priorities "Add some basic docs/howto at doc/i2p.md, similarly to doc/tor.md"
 83 2021-06-04T09:10:44  <michaelfolkson> vasild: Feel free to use any of this SE post https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/103402/how-can-i-use-bitcoin-core-with-the-anonymous-network-protocol-i2p
 84 2021-06-04T09:11:18  <michaelfolkson> vasild: I quite like the idea of using StackExchange as a staging ground or place for drafts before they are ready to add to Core docs :)
 85 2021-06-04T09:11:32  <jonatack> michaelfolkson: there is a wide range of area within the CET timezone (maybe other timezones too but CET I know well), e.g. sun setting and rising much "earlier" in the eastern parts
 86 2021-06-04T09:11:43  <vasild> michaelfolkson: thanks for the link, I should do that before 22.0 release
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 93 2021-06-04T11:56:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a748782a11f0...3ac5209662ce
 94 2021-06-04T11:56:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e4356f6 Daniel Kraft: Testcase for wallet issue with orphaned rewards.
 95 2021-06-04T11:56:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3ac5209 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#18795: Test: wallet issue with orphaned rewards
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 98 2021-06-04T11:56:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #18795: Test: wallet issue with orphaned rewards (master...orphanedreward-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/18795
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103 2021-06-04T12:32:54  <jnewbery> MarcoFalke: saying "we might as well remove all other tests" is not helpful. The point is that we've loaded so many additional tasks onto the CI that it gives frequent false failures.
104 2021-06-04T12:33:48  <jnewbery> If developers first thought when seeing a failing CI is "it's probably a spurious failure, I'll hit re-run", then it's worse than useless.
105 2021-06-04T12:34:45  <jnewbery> and the approach of "let's just spend money and throw more CPU at the problem" isn't a good solution
106 2021-06-04T12:34:51  <hebasto> it appears that `lupdate` can produce XLIFF file directly; the drawback is that `-locations relative` does not work in this case
107 2021-06-04T12:35:16  <hebasto> laanwj: luke-jr: ^
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110 2021-06-04T12:40:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] sdaftuar opened pull request #22147: p2p: Protect last outbound HB compact block peer (master...2021-06-reserve-outbound-hb) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22147
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113 2021-06-04T12:43:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3ac5209662ce...346e52afd6d5
114 2021-06-04T12:43:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa4245d MarcoFalke: doc: Various validation doc fixups
115 2021-06-04T12:43:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 346e52a fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22121: doc: Various validation doc fixups
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118 2021-06-04T12:43:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #22121: doc: Various validation doc fixups (master...2106-docVal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22121
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123 2021-06-04T13:06:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22149: test: Add temporary logging to debug #20975 (master...2106-testDebug) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22149
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126 2021-06-04T13:20:53  <MarcoFalke> jnewbery: Sure but then the first attempt should be to fix the spurious failure, not to remove the whole test config
127 2021-06-04T13:22:15  <MarcoFalke> Without any way to run the fuzz tests in CI, they will quickly become stale
128 2021-06-04T13:23:21  <MarcoFalke> We've already moved the fuzz memory sanitizers out of the ci config. The memory issues are rare enough that they can be fixed up after a merge
129 2021-06-04T13:24:04  <MarcoFalke> Though the other issues (logic bugs in the fuzz code, other sanitizer issues, ...) are far more frequent and need to be dealt with in the pull that introduces the issue
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131 2021-06-04T13:27:54  <MarcoFalke> If there is a specific fuzz test that is slow and not too helpful, we could remove that one
132 2021-06-04T13:29:44  <MarcoFalke> Also, we have plenty of intermittent failures in the functional test suite, which are waiting to be fixed
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134 2021-06-04T13:37:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22150: test: Remove unused node from feature_nulldummy (master...2106-testFaster) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22150
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163 2021-06-04T16:18:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22151: build: Follow Transifex docs to prepare XLIFF source (master...210604-xliff) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22151
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182 2021-06-04T16:47:30  <ryanofsky> A compromise short of disabling unreliable tests, could be adding a way to mark them flaky. Flaky tests would still run but just collect debug info and not cause the CI to fail
183 2021-06-04T16:47:40  <ryanofsky> This would also let us track which tests are unreliable over time
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189 2021-06-04T16:51:06  <luke-jr> hebasto: can we postprocess to remove the locations entirely? (do they serve a purpose?)
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198 2021-06-04T17:13:19  <hebasto> luke-jr: do you mean for the source file?
199 2021-06-04T17:13:56  <hebasto> probably locations are used by Qt Linguist
200 2021-06-04T17:14:14  <hebasto> but not sure
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203 2021-06-04T18:08:48  <achow101> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic subtract fee from recipients intended behavior and edge cases
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209 2021-06-04T19:00:37  <achow101> #startmeeting
210 2021-06-04T19:00:38  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Jun  4 19:00:37 2021 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
211 2021-06-04T19:00:38  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
212 2021-06-04T19:00:49  <sipa> hi
213 2021-06-04T19:00:54  <jonatack> hi
214 2021-06-04T19:01:08  <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd
215 2021-06-04T19:01:09  <achow101> phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
216 2021-06-04T19:01:34  <achow101> I have a topic, but are there any other topics for today?
217 2021-06-04T19:01:51  <sipa> topic suggestion: what to prioritize for taproot wallet support? there are probably half a dozen things that need to be done
218 2021-06-04T19:01:58  <michaelfolkson> hi
219 2021-06-04T19:02:06  <jarolrod> hi
220 2021-06-04T19:02:17  <fjahr> hi
221 2021-06-04T19:02:40  <achow101> #topic subtract fee from recipients intended behavior and edge cases (achow101)
222 2021-06-04T19:02:40  <core-meetingbot> topic: subtract fee from recipients intended behavior and edge cases (achow101)
223 2021-06-04T19:03:05  <achow101> What is the exact behavior and use case we expect for the subtract fee from recipients feature?
224 2021-06-04T19:03:35  <sipa> can you give an example of where the expected behavior isn't clear?
225 2021-06-04T19:03:45  <ryanofsky> (context is https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22008#pullrequestreview-676528963)
226 2021-06-04T19:03:55  <achow101> ryanofsky noticed that the current implementation (after 17331 removed the loop) will increase the recipient amounts if a dropped change output was more than the required fee
227 2021-06-04T19:04:22  <achow101> I looked at the previous looping implementation, and it looks like that would actually just overpay the fees in that case. it would reduce the fee from the recipients, then drop the change output to fee
228 2021-06-04T19:04:35  <achow101> I think neither of these things are what we want to do
229 2021-06-04T19:05:42  <michaelfolkson> Your view is... achow101? :)
230 2021-06-04T19:05:46  <sipa> what does dropped mean here? don't you "start" from a transaction without change, and add it if necessary?
231 2021-06-04T19:06:04  <achow101> michaelfolkson: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22008#issuecomment-854880614
232 2021-06-04T19:06:18  <jonatack> sipa: was wondering this too
233 2021-06-04T19:06:36  <achow101> sipa: we start from a transaction with change, then subtract the fees from it. then if it is below dust or the exact match window, we remove the change output
234 2021-06-04T19:06:52  <achow101> with subtract fee from output, we skip the "subtract fees from it" step
235 2021-06-04T19:07:06  <sipa> achow101: only in the current knapsack?
236 2021-06-04T19:07:14  <achow101> sipa: always
237 2021-06-04T19:07:22  <achow101> we do this regardless of the algorithm
238 2021-06-04T19:07:52  <achow101> with BnB, the change always ends up in the exact match window since we do the same math, so the change is always dropped
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240 2021-06-04T19:08:10  <ryanofsky> IMO the choice is just between slightly overpaying fees and being pedantic about the word "subtract". Or just keeping current behavior and mostly subtracting sometimes adding to recipient when it's most efficient
241 2021-06-04T19:09:01  <ryanofsky> This is good for the use-case of transferring funds between wallets, which is at least is where I've used subtract from recipient before
242 2021-06-04T19:09:04  <michaelfolkson> I do think paying a little more than the recipient is expecting is strange behavior for both the sender and the receiver
243 2021-06-04T19:09:38  <ryanofsky> It deserves to be documented, sure
244 2021-06-04T19:09:39  <achow101> what we've always done is overpay fees, probably too much
245 2021-06-04T19:09:40  <sipa> ryanofsky: i think that's the most important use case
246 2021-06-04T19:09:51  <sipa> moving all funds from one wallet to another
247 2021-06-04T19:09:56  <ryanofsky> But I think you choose behavior based on use cases, not on being pedantic about terminology
248 2021-06-04T19:10:12  <achow101> ryanofsky: the use case I've seen the most is moving all funds from one wallet to another, in which case this discussion doesn't matter
249 2021-06-04T19:10:33  <achow101> but we don't really know what people actually use this for
250 2021-06-04T19:10:46  <ryanofsky> achow101, it matters because in one case you overpay the miner, in the other case you have a little more funds in your new wallet
251 2021-06-04T19:11:21  *** Guest37 <Guest37!~Guest37@116.68.83.230> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
252 2021-06-04T19:11:53  <sipa> is this a long term problem? i'd imagine that in a BnB + SRD world, you have two algorithms one that aims for no-change solutions, and one that aims for with-change solutions, and you pick the best one
253 2021-06-04T19:11:59  <ryanofsky> but it doesn't matter that much, it is always a case where amount is less than the estimated cost of creating & spending the utxo
254 2021-06-04T19:12:09  <Guest37> Im looking for a developer, anyone freelancing?
255 2021-06-04T19:12:11  <sipa> and if the with-change solution results in too low change, you just discard that solution
256 2021-06-04T19:12:24  <michaelfolkson> Guest37: Sorry, in the middle of a meeting
257 2021-06-04T19:12:28  <sipa> or you convert it to a no-change one, and consider it in that form
258 2021-06-04T19:13:02  <jonatack> use case: i subtractfeefromamount in the case of say, selling btc to a party who chooses the fee rate they want to use for the txn
259 2021-06-04T19:13:11  <Guest37> its okay, after call me.paying big bucks for a bitcoin competitor. "Bitcoin Green" - Runs 100% sustainable. No electricity used ever.
260 2021-06-04T19:13:16  <sipa> Guest37: go away
261 2021-06-04T19:13:17  <Guest37> PM me before u miss the launch
262 2021-06-04T19:13:17  <ryanofsky> sipa, this is all after coin selection, when the algorithm has already run and then we discover the change output is uneconomical
263 2021-06-04T19:13:41  <Guest37> *scoff* nerds
264 2021-06-04T19:13:45  <achow101> I think this case is an extreme edge case
265 2021-06-04T19:13:50  <ryanofsky> so we discard the change output, and pay slightly more fees in the normal case
266 2021-06-04T19:13:57  <achow101> especially after effective value
267 2021-06-04T19:14:19  <ryanofsky> and in the subtract from recipients case we can do a little better and send the extra amount to recipients, which is what the code is doing now
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269 2021-06-04T19:14:34  <ryanofsky> but agree it is not very important
270 2021-06-04T19:14:56  <sipa> ryanofsky: which means it increases the waste metric (once that's in use), and will hopefully not be favored if an actual no-change solutions exists too
271 2021-06-04T19:15:17  <sipa> ?
272 2021-06-04T19:15:37  <ryanofsky> Not sure, I'm not familiar with the waste metric yet
273 2021-06-04T19:15:52  <achow101> sipa: I don't think the waste metric accounts for change being dust, yet
274 2021-06-04T19:16:03  <sipa> it should, i think
275 2021-06-04T19:16:13  <sipa> overpaying fee is waste
276 2021-06-04T19:16:36  <achow101> right, we do consider that when we know there is no change
277 2021-06-04T19:17:38  <achow101> actually, thinking on it, I don't think knapsack can even find a solution where change would be dust.
278 2021-06-04T19:17:47  <achow101> since it targets a minimum change value
279 2021-06-04T19:18:41  <ryanofsky> Then maybe it is even more rare and only happens with manual coin selection
280 2021-06-04T19:18:52  <sipa> i'm thinking something similar
281 2021-06-04T19:19:21  <achow101> indeed
282 2021-06-04T19:19:23  <jonatack> test coverage on this may be nice, if missing
283 2021-06-04T19:19:29  <sipa> in whatever situation where you'd end up with change that's uneconomical (which dust definitely is), there *should* exist a better no-change solution that BnB would find
284 2021-06-04T19:20:09  <sipa> at the very least, the one that's exactly the same but with the change converged to fee
285 2021-06-04T19:20:16  <sipa> (but possibly, a better one too)
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287 2021-06-04T19:20:24  <ryanofsky> Either way, I'm just defending current behavior, and don't see a benefit in changing besides being more strict about "subtract". But I don't think it would be a huge deal to change
288 2021-06-04T19:21:11  <achow101> ryanofsky: the current behavior is accidental though, and if you look at before 17331, we would always overpay
289 2021-06-04T19:21:48  <ryanofsky> Ok, I did write the code intentionally that way when I suggested in in the other PR, but maybe I misread previous behavior
290 2021-06-04T19:22:41  <achow101> I didn't realize that at that time. if I did, we would have had this discussion several weeks ago
291 2021-06-04T19:22:48  <ryanofsky> I was trying not to change behavior, but I think I was basing it on your existing changes in that PR not the previous code.
292 2021-06-04T19:23:45  <ryanofsky> Anyway, that would be another reason to change, which is fine
293 2021-06-04T19:24:40  <achow101> I'll do some further analysis on the actual conditions this could occur and we can revisit this later
294 2021-06-04T19:24:50  <achow101> as usual, coin selection remains inscrutable
295 2021-06-04T19:25:11  <achow101> #topic what to prioritize for taproot wallet support? (sipa)
296 2021-06-04T19:25:11  <core-meetingbot> topic: what to prioritize for taproot wallet support? (sipa)
297 2021-06-04T19:25:20  <ryanofsky> Sure, and you should really do what you want there ultimately
298 2021-06-04T19:26:27  <michaelfolkson> Can you give an update on where we are with Taproot wallet support to start with sipa? I saw this PR though haven't looked through it yet https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21365
299 2021-06-04T19:26:35  <sipa> so a rough list of missing things in master: signing support, descriptor inference support, multisig support (multi(k,...) doesn't exist in taproot), actual PSBT support with extensions so spending paths can be conveyed, support for easily constructing no-keypath descriptors, ...
300 2021-06-04T19:27:05  <sipa> do we want to try to get signing support in 22.0?
301 2021-06-04T19:27:17  <achow101> I think we should try to get signing support for 22.0
302 2021-06-04T19:27:24  <achow101> and basic descriptor inference
303 2021-06-04T19:27:47  <fjahr> hell yeah :)
304 2021-06-04T19:28:17  <sipa> signing for basic stuff is done (which is really only useful for keypath signing, but in theory does script paths too)
305 2021-06-04T19:28:17  <achow101> michaelfolkson: we have tr() descriptor construction with keys only now. you can import them into a watch only descriptor wallet
306 2021-06-04T19:28:59  <sipa> so we punt multisig support and other descriptor extensions
307 2021-06-04T19:29:11  <sipa> and just try to get basic key path signing to work
308 2021-06-04T19:29:16  <achow101> I think that's reasonable
309 2021-06-04T19:29:54  <achow101> also 22.0 should be released before taproot activates, so I don't think we need to have support for everything at the very beginning
310 2021-06-04T19:29:56  <sipa> we'll want PSBT extensions for taproot (and musig, once that's a bit further along), but that's a larger discussion than just the bitcoin core wallet
311 2021-06-04T19:30:44  <michaelfolkson> So that would just be #21365 that needs review and merging for 22.0?
312 2021-06-04T19:30:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21365 | Basic Taproot signing support for descriptor wallets by sipa · Pull Request #21365 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
313 2021-06-04T19:30:58  <sipa> plus inference support
314 2021-06-04T19:31:20  <achow101> basic inference support shouldn't be particularly hard
315 2021-06-04T19:31:52  <achow101> do we need to add OutputType::BECH32M?
316 2021-06-04T19:32:05  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6981:7880::3> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
317 2021-06-04T19:32:08  <sipa> that's a good question
318 2021-06-04T19:32:13  <sipa> i'd say yes
319 2021-06-04T19:32:28  <sipa> because it's something receivers care about
320 2021-06-04T19:32:35  <achow101> agreed
321 2021-06-04T19:32:55  <achow101> that also shouldn't be hard
322 2021-06-04T19:33:04  <sipa> indeed
323 2021-06-04T19:33:18  <sipa> i don't know much about the interaction with descriptor wallets, but i can try
324 2021-06-04T19:33:40  <achow101> I can look at it
325 2021-06-04T19:33:50  <achow101> I don't think it requires much in the wallet itself
326 2021-06-04T19:34:06  <michaelfolkson> Inference support is just docs, error messages, things like that?
327 2021-06-04T19:34:27  <sipa> lots of RPCs report inferred descriptors
328 2021-06-04T19:34:59  <achow101> michaelfolkson: inference support is getting the descriptor for a given scriptPubKey
329 2021-06-04T19:35:08  <michaelfolkson> Oh ok, thanks
330 2021-06-04T19:35:46  <achow101> reminder that feature freeze is in ~10 days
331 2021-06-04T19:36:40  <achow101> anything else to discuss?
332 2021-06-04T19:37:05  <sipa> GetDestinationForKey... doesn't need BECH32M support, right?
333 2021-06-04T19:37:45  <sipa> that's only for legacy wallets i assume (and hope)
334 2021-06-04T19:38:14  <achow101> sipa: should be for legacy wallets only
335 2021-06-04T19:38:16  <achow101> so no
336 2021-06-04T19:38:42  <sipa> dumpwallet is disabled for descriptor wallets?
337 2021-06-04T19:38:46  <achow101> yes
338 2021-06-04T19:39:35  <achow101> #endmeeting
339 2021-06-04T19:39:36  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
340 2021-06-04T19:39:36  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Jun  4 19:39:35 2021 UTC.
341 2021-06-04T19:39:36  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-06-04-19.00.moin.txt
342 2021-06-04T19:40:01  <michaelfolkson> Did you ever consider doing a wallet current priorities page? Like the P2P one on the dev wiki? https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/P2P-Current-Priorities
343 2021-06-04T19:41:30  <michaelfolkson> When people update it it makes it easier to follow what people are working on wallet related
344 2021-06-04T19:41:44  <achow101> we could add one
345 2021-06-04T19:42:19  <michaelfolkson> Sounds like Taproot support is the current priority generally for the wallet
346 2021-06-04T19:42:40  <warren> BTW did anyone announce the move of #bitcoin-core-dev to Libera? Libera had retweeted those announcements for other projects.
347 2021-06-04T19:44:05  <michaelfolkson> warren: It was announced in some places, there are always going to be more places it could be announced in. You want a tweet specifically from say a Bitcoin Core Twitter account?
348 2021-06-04T19:44:46  <sipa> laanwj: want to tweet about the IRC move from bitcoincoreorg?
349 2021-06-04T19:45:11  <laanwj> sure
350 2021-06-04T19:46:16  <laanwj> no problem with that, though i generally don't tweet IRC related things, definitely not on the bitcoincoreorg account, it seems more developer-internal than announcement
351 2021-06-04T19:46:19  <ryanofsky> Wow, I thought the whole reason we used IRC was so no one would find us. Maybe this tweeting thing will turn over a new leaf :)
352 2021-06-04T19:46:23  <sipa> laanwj: that's fair
353 2021-06-04T19:46:27  <laanwj> ryanofsky: that
354 2021-06-04T19:46:47  <sipa> we don't really have "user facing" stuff on IRC, maybe other projects do
355 2021-06-04T19:47:13  <warren> that's a good point, I guess it matters for the other channels not this
356 2021-06-04T19:47:17  <achow101> I do remember seeing (and tweeting) a few wtf tweets when freenode closed the channel
357 2021-06-04T19:47:25  <warren> but there is no "official" account to tweet for the user channels
358 2021-06-04T19:47:35  <laanwj> if you want to make a "community channel" that's okay but it probably shouldn't be here
359 2021-06-04T19:47:49  <warren> I retract that question.
360 2021-06-04T19:47:57  <laanwj> at least with libera we have free well-working bridging to matrix
361 2021-06-04T19:48:09  <laanwj> so if you want a lot of people here, just ask
362 2021-06-04T19:48:22  <jonatack> no tweet sgtm
363 2021-06-04T19:48:30  <warren> Is Matrix good? I hadn't heard about code quality and association with altcoin devs made me suspicious early on.
364 2021-06-04T19:48:52  <laanwj> yes, matrix is basically discord but free software
365 2021-06-04T19:49:08  <achow101> sipa: what about bech32m in the gui?
366 2021-06-04T19:49:26  <sipa> achow101: we probably want that too, but i don't think it's a short term requirement
367 2021-06-04T19:49:41  <sipa> as long as we don't intend to expose creation of taproot wallets by default
368 2021-06-04T19:49:44  <laanwj> +e2e encryption
369 2021-06-04T19:49:56  <laanwj> but not if you IRC bridge ofc
370 2021-06-04T19:50:10  <achow101> sipa: I suppose right now if you can make a taproot wallet, you can also use the cli to get addresses
371 2021-06-04T19:50:48  <sipa> right
372 2021-06-04T19:51:09  <sipa> you'll need RPC to import the descriptor anyway
373 2021-06-04T19:53:16  <laanwj> warren: not sure where you get the association with altcoin devs from--but in any case it's used in large scale outside cryptocurrency, for example FOSDEM 2021 was done entirely on matrix
374 2021-06-04T20:01:08  <achow101> sipa: are you going to do both OutputType::BECH32M and infer support, or would you like me to take a look at one (or both) of them?
375 2021-06-04T20:01:37  <sipa> i'll do inference
376 2021-06-04T20:01:57  <achow101> ok, I'll do outputtype then
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378 2021-06-04T20:02:02  <warren> laanwj: apparently major early funding came from altcoin ecosystems. glad to hear it doesn't matter now.
379 2021-06-04T20:02:40  <michaelfolkson> Added a wallet current priorities page/IRC meetings page on the dev wiki https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/Wallet-Current-Priorities-and-IRC-meetings
380 2021-06-04T20:02:46  <michaelfolkson> (for the wallet)
381 2021-06-04T20:02:58  <laanwj> warren: fair enough, it's the same thing that makes me skeptical about radicle as a decentralized github at the moment
382 2021-06-04T20:03:46  <warren> same problem with signal  I guess
383 2021-06-04T20:03:57  <michaelfolkson> I drafted an example for you sipa, hope you don't mind :)
384 2021-06-04T20:04:02  <laanwj> i have been trying to keep track of it but really it's too much about tokens and "governance" instead of delivering useful functionality
385 2021-06-04T20:04:04  <michaelfolkson> Please correct if inaccurate
386 2021-06-04T20:04:22  <laanwj> yes
387 2021-06-04T20:05:38  <sipa> who would have thought that money corrupts
388 2021-06-04T20:06:26  <sipa> "Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy."
389 2021-06-04T20:07:34  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
390 2021-06-04T20:07:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mzumsande opened pull request #22153: test: Fix p2p_leak.py intermittent failure (master...202106_fix_p2p_leak) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22153
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392 2021-06-04T20:07:59  <laanwj> hehe, yes it's supposed to be a motivation for people to do useful things, i'm not convinced
393 2021-06-04T20:09:58  <michaelfolkson> Some people manage to stay just as productive post money. Admittedly some don't :)
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399 2021-06-04T20:29:23  <hebasto> observing vandal-like actions in Ukrainian translation on Transifex; made local backups just in case
400 2021-06-04T20:30:55  <sipa> hebasto: i hope it has history, and changes can be reverted?
401 2021-06-04T20:31:39  <hebasto> sipa: right, on per-message basis
402 2021-06-04T20:34:03  <hebasto> I've send a message to that user asking for more attention (in case his three actions in a row were made by accident)
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404 2021-06-04T20:39:12  <hebasto> is 0.20.2rc2 supposed to be signed for windows only, or macos as well?
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409 2021-06-04T21:23:08  <achow101> hebasto: it should have a macos sig too, just waiting on jonasschnelli
410 2021-06-04T21:23:25  <hebasto> achow101: ok
411 2021-06-04T21:23:55  <achow101> sipa: what about importing tr() descriptors and bech32m addresses into legacy wallets? I guess it would make sense to be able to watch them with a legacy wallet?
412 2021-06-04T21:25:22  <sipa> achow101: just watching would be easy i guess, just convert them to watched scripts
413 2021-06-04T21:25:45  <achow101> but that would also end up watching the p2sh wrapped versions too (I think)
414 2021-06-04T21:25:52  <sipa> right
415 2021-06-04T21:26:06  <sipa> that could be avoided with more special casing, i guess
416 2021-06-04T21:26:20  <sipa> but also doing more (like enabling updating PSBT with that, once there are extensions) will be hard
417 2021-06-04T21:26:37  <achow101> my thought was to just completely disallow bech32m for legacy wallets
418 2021-06-04T21:26:44  <sipa> i think that makes sense
419 2021-06-04T21:26:47  <achow101> which should take care of any future things too
420 2021-06-04T21:37:13  <sipa> right
421 2021-06-04T21:48:00  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
422 2021-06-04T21:48:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #22154: Add OutputType::BECH32M and related wallet support for fetching bech32m addresses (master...outputtype-bech32m) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22154
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437 2021-06-04T23:11:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #22155: wallet test: Add test for subtract fee from recipient behavior (master...pr/subfee) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22155
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441 2021-06-04T23:40:58  <sipa> achow101: this is a much harder problem than i thought
442 2021-06-04T23:41:04  <sipa> inferring tr descriptors
443 2021-06-04T23:41:19  <sipa> fun edge case: what if you have repeated subtrees
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446 2021-06-04T23:43:59  <achow101> sipa: for 22.0, I think we can have just the minimum of "OP_1 <pubkey>" -> "tr(<pubkey>)"
447 2021-06-04T23:44:08  <sipa> sure
448 2021-06-04T23:44:20  <sipa> well, that's not correct
449 2021-06-04T23:44:35  <sipa> even single-key cases get tweaked
450 2021-06-04T23:44:52  <sipa> but still, that wouldn't be hard to do
451 2021-06-04T23:45:18  <achow101> but the tweak is reversible?
452 2021-06-04T23:45:25  <sipa> no
453 2021-06-04T23:45:45  <sipa> it's similar to P2PKH in a way
454 2021-06-04T23:45:56  <sipa> you can't infer the pubkey from the scriptPubKey
455 2021-06-04T23:46:31  <sipa> but if you started from an expanded descriptor, you have enough information in the SigningProvider to infer
456 2021-06-04T23:48:08  <achow101> ah, without the internal key, you can't get the tweak
457 2021-06-04T23:48:21  <sipa> right, the tweak is literally just H(internal key)
458 2021-06-04T23:50:06  <achow101> but with access to the SigningProvider, it is possible to get at least the internal key
459 2021-06-04T23:50:32  <sipa> the rest too
460 2021-06-04T23:50:49  <sipa> it's just a bit tricky to infer a tree structure from a bunch of leaves
461 2021-06-04T23:50:53  <achow101> how is the tree stored in the SigningProvider?
462 2021-06-04T23:51:06  <sipa> as a map (script -> controlblock)
463 2021-06-04T23:51:16  <sipa> which is kind of how i expect it to end up in PSBT as well
464 2021-06-04T23:51:40  <sipa> though obviously the internal structure can change if some other approach is taken
465 2021-06-04T23:52:10  <sipa> if the internal structure is literally the tree it'd be easier, but i think that would be hard to map to something PSBT-like I think
466 2021-06-04T23:52:22  <sipa> unless it's a field of the form "here is the serialized tree, go nuts"
467 2021-06-04T23:52:52  <achow101> that would be the easiest
468 2021-06-04T23:52:58  <achow101> but perhaps not privacy preserving
469 2021-06-04T23:53:16  <sipa> right, it'd be nice if it was possible to give "this is the only branch you need to care about"
470 2021-06-04T23:53:58  <achow101> so the problem is if you have the same script in different parts of the tree
471 2021-06-04T23:54:07  <sipa> oh
472 2021-06-04T23:54:09  <sipa> lol
473 2021-06-04T23:54:16  <sipa> this problem just cannot occur
474 2021-06-04T23:54:22  <achow101> phew
475 2021-06-04T23:54:29  <sipa> because to have repeated subtrees, you need repeated leaves
476 2021-06-04T23:54:40  <sipa> and repeated leaves can't be encoded in a (script -> control) map
477 2021-06-04T23:54:44  <sipa> it'd need to be a multimap
478 2021-06-04T23:54:48  <achow101> I was going to point that out
479 2021-06-04T23:54:52  <sipa> thanks!
480 2021-06-04T23:55:24  <achow101> why couldn't we have repeated leaves?
481 2021-06-04T23:55:56  <sipa> in descriptor form they're possible
482 2021-06-04T23:56:05  <sipa> but not in the SigningProvider form i have now
483 2021-06-04T23:56:12  <sipa> (they're also pointless...)
484 2021-06-04T23:56:49  <achow101> so we could just disallow them
485 2021-06-04T23:57:42  <sipa> yeah, though they can't be detected in descriptor form
486 2021-06-04T23:57:47  <sipa> only after derivation
487 2021-06-04T23:58:07  <sipa> e.g. you could have tr(KEY,{xpub/*,pubkey}), and pubkey matches the xpub/* derivation at index 1923098173981
488 2021-06-04T23:59:29  <achow101> hmm