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  3 2021-06-22T00:14:08  <luke-jr> hebasto: any reason you limited palette updates to macOS?
  4 2021-06-22T00:15:26  <hebasto> luke-jr: not limited, rather focused on macOS
  5 2021-06-22T00:17:10  <hebasto> and macOS has auto-change of appearance feature
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  8 2021-06-22T01:12:55  <luke-jr> hebasto: #ifdef Q_OS_MACOS
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 10 2021-06-22T01:13:47  <hebasto> windows and linux were not goals for that pr, and were not tested
 11 2021-06-22T01:14:40  <hebasto> I agree it could be accepted for other platforms
 12 2021-06-22T01:18:12  <luke-jr> limiting features to one platform arbitrarily doesn't seem to make sense, especially when it's the hardest-to-test platform :P
 13 2021-06-22T01:19:55  <hebasto> I don't understand your point. it was not "arbitrarily" -- there was users' request
 14 2021-06-22T01:21:05  <hebasto> getting dark mode work on linux highly depends on DE, btw
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 18 2021-06-22T01:22:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22305: build: Avoid fcntl64@GLIBC_2.28 in libsqlite3.a (master...210622-fcntl) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22305
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 20 2021-06-22T01:23:25  <luke-jr> hebasto: but it's certain to have the same issues without this code
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 22 2021-06-22T01:25:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] amitiuttarwar opened pull request #22306: [test] Improvements to p2p_addr_relay.py (master...2021-06-addr-tests) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22306
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 25 2021-06-22T01:29:14  <hebasto> luke-jr: ofc, because it was not its goal to change behavior on Linux or Windows
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 29 2021-06-22T02:11:00  <kanzure> win 5
 30 2021-06-22T02:11:02  <kanzure> whoops
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 39 2021-06-22T04:03:03  <robertspigler> re: travel restrictions for developer meetup, the Kayak travel website has a world map where you can select any origin country, and then see all the restrictions
 40 2021-06-22T04:29:42  <Bullit> Yeah if you didnt know google has 1379 members and the stockbroker application Alphabet A and Alphabet C are runaway CEO´s saddly what is suggested about the kayak is googles suggestion in from europe to america by kayak
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 56 2021-06-22T06:13:52  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 57 2021-06-22T06:13:53  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/398dd6783389...672870ab7ba5
 58 2021-06-22T06:13:53  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 168b6c3 Josiah Baker: add dummy file param to fix jupyter
 59 2021-06-22T06:13:53  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 672870a MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22201: test: Fix TestShell to allow running in Jupyt...
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 62 2021-06-22T06:14:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22201: test: Fix TestShell to allow running in Jupyter Notebook (master...josibake-parse-only-known-arguments-in-testshell) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22201
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 83 2021-06-22T07:46:41  *** lkqwejhhgasdjhgn <lkqwejhhgasdjhgn!~kljkljklk@p200300d46f03bc00c3c989967c4d9cc5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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 86 2021-06-22T08:07:20  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
 87 2021-06-22T08:07:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] rebroad opened pull request #22307: Detect when GETBLOCKTXN requests are ignored. (master...DetectIngoredGetblocktxns) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22307
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 90 2021-06-22T08:07:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22308: wallet: Add missing BlockUntilSyncedToCurrentChain (master...2106-wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22308
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101 2021-06-22T09:08:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22309: blockstorage: Add missing atomic include (master...2106-include) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22309
102 2021-06-22T09:08:37  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
103 2021-06-22T09:17:25  <fanquake> wumpus / sipa:  can you please block Davidbrizio
104 2021-06-22T09:22:06  <laanwj> fanquake: can't find the user
105 2021-06-22T09:23:38  <fanquake> I think they've been deleted  already: https://github.com/Davidbrizio
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107 2021-06-22T09:28:34  *** ChristianDecker[ is now known as cdecker[m]
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146 2021-06-22T13:54:41  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
147 2021-06-22T13:54:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/672870ab7ba5...327e2691f6e0
148 2021-06-22T13:54:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa2d21f MarcoFalke: add missing atomic include
149 2021-06-22T13:54:42  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 327e269 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22309: blockstorage: Add missing atomic include
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152 2021-06-22T13:54:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22309: blockstorage: Add missing atomic include (master...2106-include) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22309
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181 2021-06-22T17:21:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ariard opened pull request #22310: test: Add functional test for replacement penalty check  (master...2021-06-add-rbf5-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22310
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191 2021-06-22T17:45:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22311: test: Add missing syncwithvalidationinterfacequeue in p2p_blockfilters (master...2106-testsyncwithvalidationinterfacequeue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22311
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199 2021-06-22T18:09:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] siv2r opened pull request #22312: changes for wait_for_getheaders to include hash_list (master...modify-wait-getheaders) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22312
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204 2021-06-22T18:17:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22313: test: Add missing sync_all to feature_coinstatsindex (master...2106-testSync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22313
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214 2021-06-22T18:56:19  <jamesob> I know this is an age old and time honored tradition, but just for fun: when's the last time someone looked seriously at replacing leveldb with something bespoke for our access patterns?
215 2021-06-22T18:56:49  <jamesob> not saying it's something I want to do but may be a fun project for a new contributor/summer intern or something who's so inclined
216 2021-06-22T18:57:17  <jamesob> even having a relatively thorough enumeration of those access patterns and what exactly we need from such a library would be interesting
217 2021-06-22T18:58:31  <laanwj> having the entire utxo set in memory still works best :-)
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220 2021-06-22T19:03:14  <laanwj> could just write it out as a linear file on shutdown (and read it in on startup); the drawback of not using a database is, besides the memory use, that unexpected crashes of the daemon lose the entire state, as it cannot be written incrementally
221 2021-06-22T19:03:15  <jamesob> laanwj: absolutely :)
222 2021-06-22T19:03:36  <jamesob> but ofc we don't want to make running a full node require 10gb of memory or whatever it is these days
223 2021-06-22T19:04:35  <laanwj> probably not, and after the initial sync the performance tradeoff becomes different anyway
224 2021-06-22T19:06:10  <laanwj> after that there's pretty much two use cases, either you want verification to go as quickly as possible (e.g. miners), which warrants keeping everything in memory, or the speed is pretty much irrelevalt (personal nodes)
225 2021-06-22T19:07:05  <laanwj> in which case leveldb is good enough?
226 2021-06-22T19:09:34  <jeremyru_> jamesob: i think it'd be fun to have some decidedly *worse* databases too -- e.g. a Filesystem tree
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228 2021-06-22T19:10:02  <jamesob> jeremyru_: totally; would be fun to see to what extent that degrades performance
229 2021-06-22T19:11:41  <jamesob> laanwj: right absolutely. I guess I'm just compelled to think about it because I wonder if we couldn't come up with something equally robust/performant but simpler. After dealing with the issue underlying #22263 I was reminded that leveldb definitely isn't perfect and drags in some stuff we may not need (e.g. snaphots)
230 2021-06-22T19:11:42  <jeremyru_> it'd also be interesting to put in sqlite because then you can build out more indexing stuff, and sqlite is already a dependency for wallet
231 2021-06-22T19:11:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22263 | refactor: wrap CCoinsViewCursor in unique_ptr by jamesob · Pull Request #22263 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
232 2021-06-22T19:12:03  <laanwj> back in the day we tried some experiments with LMDB but while read performance was somewhat better, write performance was worse
233 2021-06-22T19:12:06  <jamesob> jeremyru_: problem with that is that would drag sqlite into consensus which we definitely don't want
234 2021-06-22T19:12:47  <laanwj> snapshots are useful for being able to run utxo statistics or backup in the background
235 2021-06-22T19:13:22  <jamesob> yeah that's a good point, and probably not something we'd want to implement ourselves
236 2021-06-22T19:13:48  <jeremyru_> jamesob: true, just thinking more generally about things a node operator might want to have, as experimental/run as an internal API node stuff
237 2021-06-22T19:13:59  <laanwj> i doubt we need more indexing stuff, a key/value database is fine for utxos
238 2021-06-22T19:14:05  <jamesob> right
239 2021-06-22T19:14:08  <sipa> we tried sqlite
240 2021-06-22T19:14:20  <sipa> at the time it had terrible performance for this kind of load
241 2021-06-22T19:14:23  <laanwj> yes
242 2021-06-22T19:14:34  <sipa> i don't think that has changed; it's just not designed for this
243 2021-06-22T19:15:30  <jeremyru_> having everything in memory performance wise should be doable mostly as command line options right on cache sizes? I guess the flushes need to be sync on some responses.
244 2021-06-22T19:16:04  <sipa> if you run with -dbcache=infinity and reindex you'll effectively do the entire sync without a single db write
245 2021-06-22T19:16:10  <jamesob> jeremyru_: mem only a nonstarter for reasons laanwj mentioned; need to have durability for crashes
246 2021-06-22T19:16:16  <sipa> (the blocks will be written to disk, but no flushes would occur)
247 2021-06-22T19:16:32  <jeremyru_> sipa: what happens on crash?
248 2021-06-22T19:16:40  <laanwj> jamesob: I mean it's fine for specific scenarios where you have UPS backup, or fallback nodes
249 2021-06-22T19:16:50  <jamesob> right but we can't assume that as a generality ofc
250 2021-06-22T19:17:17  <laanwj> sure, but if you want to specialize for use cases
251 2021-06-22T19:17:22  <sipa> jeremyru_: you'll start over from scratch
252 2021-06-22T19:17:23  <jamesob> nor can we assume a lot of RAM... but I do like this idea of an optional "sync as fast as you can" mode that ensures sufficient memory and just blazes through an ibd
253 2021-06-22T19:17:44  <sipa> jamesob: that exists, just set dbcache to all your memory
254 2021-06-22T19:17:45  <jamesob> (not to mention makes tip maintenance as fast as possible for miners)
255 2021-06-22T19:18:10  <jamesob> sipa: right
256 2021-06-22T19:18:37  <jamesob> sipa: although I guess such a mode would preclude periodic flushing?
257 2021-06-22T19:18:47  <jeremyru_> jamesob that should give you a good estimate on how much gain to be had
258 2021-06-22T19:18:50  <laanwj> sipa: yes, it just lacks a way to read in the entire database at node restart at the moment
259 2021-06-22T19:19:00  <sipa> laanwj: right, that would be easy to add
260 2021-06-22T19:19:24  <laanwj> sure
261 2021-06-22T19:19:44  <jeremyru_> jamesob: you could make a double buffered thing if memory really = infinity
262 2021-06-22T19:20:03  <jamesob> jeremyru_: right
263 2021-06-22T19:20:12  <jeremyru_> so that you just copy the entire utxo cache, and then write the snapshot periodically
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265 2021-06-22T19:20:13  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] nourou4them opened pull request #22314: doc: Install WSL on non-system drive and compile Bitcoin (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22314
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267 2021-06-22T19:20:19  <jeremyru_> avoid the restart from scratch issue
268 2021-06-22T19:20:45  <jeremyru_> or you could add another cache layer temoporarily
269 2021-06-22T19:21:09  <jeremyru_> so that all the reads/writes while flushing are temporarily against another layer while you flush
270 2021-06-22T19:22:08  <sipa> that's surprisingly hard to do right
271 2021-06-22T19:22:31  <sipa> in combination with the "delete entries that are spent if they have been created before the last flush"
272 2021-06-22T19:22:52  <sipa> optimization (which we benefit massively from, as all utxos are written once, read once, deleted once)
273 2021-06-22T19:24:23  <jamesob> haha you know I'm now remembering why I arrived at "screw all this ~10% optimization stuff, let's just work on assumeutxo"
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275 2021-06-22T19:26:15  <jeremyru_> jamesob: hmm
276 2021-06-22T19:26:17  <jeremyru_> one idea:
277 2021-06-22T19:26:32  <jeremyru_> just write your assumeutxo rolling hashes to disk as you go
278 2021-06-22T19:26:44  <jeremyru_> fully verified, but you could re download if you corrupt?
279 2021-06-22T19:27:10  <jamesob> that's kind of interesting, but you've still gotta keep the block data (and index) somewhere
280 2021-06-22T19:27:25  <jamesob> anyway sounds precarious/complex relative to the benefits
281 2021-06-22T19:27:52  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
282 2021-06-22T19:27:52  <bitcoin-git> [gui] luke-jr opened pull request #366: Dark Mode fixes/portability (master...gui_palettechange) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/366
283 2021-06-22T19:27:53  <jamesob> I think it's one thing if there's a sizable optimization we can make for tip maintenance (like avoiding synchronous flushes), but otherwise maybe not worth it to get too fancy
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285 2021-06-22T19:29:56  <sipa> i had a design a few years ago that would permit concurrent flushing with cache updating (so it doesn't need stop-the-clock and wipe-all-memory on every flush), but it was pretty nontrivial
286 2021-06-22T19:30:30  <sipa> while still maintaining the soon-spend-never-hits-disk optimization within some window of blocks
287 2021-06-22T19:32:26  <jamesob> also the long-neglected #17487 seems pretty relevant here
288 2021-06-22T19:32:31  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17487 | coins: allow write to disk without cache drop by jamesob · Pull Request #17487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
289 2021-06-22T19:33:23  <jamesob> > the soon-spend-never-hits-disk optimization
290 2021-06-22T19:33:23  <jamesob> yeah this one is pretty interesting, feel like there's some potential there
291 2021-06-22T19:34:08  <sipa> well, we already use it
292 2021-06-22T19:34:14  <sipa> it's the reason why -dbcache=huge is so much faster than smaller caches
293 2021-06-22T19:34:34  <sipa> it's not just avoiding reads from disk - it's mostly preventing things from being written in the first place
294 2021-06-22T19:35:08  <sipa> but combining it with partial flushing is hard, because it leaves you in an inconsistent state
295 2021-06-22T19:35:38  <sipa> every utxo individually on disk will be consistent with the state it had at some point between the last fully flushed block, and the last processed block
296 2021-06-22T19:35:46  <sipa> but you can't guarantee they're all consistent with each other
297 2021-06-22T19:38:24  <jamesob> so basically you'd have to use an ordered map for cacheCoins to do any better than we're doing right now I think, right? or have some index for insertion order
298 2021-06-22T19:39:01  <sipa> insertion order does not help
299 2021-06-22T19:39:10  <sipa> or at least, not on its own
300 2021-06-22T19:39:19  <jamesob> will younger coins are more likely to be spent, right?
301 2021-06-22T19:39:22  <jamesob> *well
302 2021-06-22T19:39:26  <jeremyru_> if you were to, say, download N blocks at a time, you could make a lookahead cache that tells you what you should flush to disk and what will be deleted before you actually process the blocks.
303 2021-06-22T19:39:46  <sipa> the problem is that the order in which you delete never-written-to-disk entries from your cache isn't the same as the order the utxos are created it
304 2021-06-22T19:39:47  <jamesob> jeremyru_: there's some kind of optimization like that the utreexo guys are doing
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306 2021-06-22T19:40:12  <sipa> jamesob: oh you just mean as an access optimization? i don't think that's the bottleneck
307 2021-06-22T19:40:32  <jamesob> sipa: no, I mean when partial flushing, avoid flushing coins that are likely soon to be spent
308 2021-06-22T19:40:44  <sipa> jamesob: there is no solution for that problem
309 2021-06-22T19:40:58  <sipa> you just need to keep track of the range of blocks that your state on disk corresponds to
310 2021-06-22T19:41:10  <sipa> and on restart, reprocess those blocks to fix the db
311 2021-06-22T19:41:21  <sipa> we do that already btw, to a limited extent, if you crash in the middle of a disk flush
312 2021-06-22T19:41:26  <jamesob> right
313 2021-06-22T19:41:54  <sipa> but doing it asynchronously makes tracking a lot harder, because you can have reorgs mixing different histories that all get written to disk at once
314 2021-06-22T19:42:13  <sipa> (and triggering a full flush on reorg would be disasterous for orphan rates)
315 2021-06-22T19:42:59  <sipa> right now we only have an inconsistent state on disk from the moment a flush begins until the point where it finishes
316 2021-06-22T19:43:31  <sipa> continuously partial flushing (which would be far better for performance) would mean you're effectively *always* inconsistent on disk, but need to retain the ability to recover from it
317 2021-06-22T19:44:11  <jeremyru_> sipa: if crash during that do we corrupt recoverably? detectably? or just requires reindex?
318 2021-06-22T19:44:40  <sipa> jeremyru_: it gets detected at startup, and reliably recovered without full reindex
319 2021-06-22T19:44:49  <sipa> (unless you have disk errors of course)
320 2021-06-22T19:45:29  <sipa> at the start of a flush, a record is written of the form "sync started, block range A...B" where B is the current tip, and A is the old tip that was flushed to
321 2021-06-22T19:45:50  <sipa> at the end, that record is removed and replaced with "synced to block B"
322 2021-06-22T19:46:31  <sipa> at startup, if a range block is present, those blocks are processed again, and their UTXO updated are applied to disk, without any other validation
323 2021-06-22T19:49:11  <sipa> one problem with this is that due to fewer consistency guarantees at that point, certain optimizations can't be used, and this reprocessing is surprisingly slower than actual validation
324 2021-06-22T19:49:26  <sipa> so if the range is too big, it's actually slower than just a reindex
325 2021-06-22T20:19:21  *** belcher <belcher!~belcher@user/belcher> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
326 2021-06-22T20:33:15  <dhruv> BIP324 question: Does the 3-byte encrypted length in the proposed AEAD construct include the 3 bytes of the length itself? The test vector here seems to imply so but it would be nice to confirm: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/327e2691f6e0498aa868af965bb4a951c5be17c5/src/test/crypto_tests.cpp#L710
327 2021-06-22T20:35:03  <dongcarl> meshcollider: Do you remember why you added a -r flag here: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gitian.sigs/blob/dfaecb5fa5062a3b2443e1f93933139b864745d8/scripts/files-touched-check.py#L16
328 2021-06-22T20:35:07  <dongcarl> I don't see it documented anywhere
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340 2021-06-22T21:10:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/327e2691f6e0...c93e123dc72b
341 2021-06-22T21:10:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fadb550 MarcoFalke: wallet: Add missing BlockUntilSyncedToCurrentChain
342 2021-06-22T21:10:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa27baa MarcoFalke: Revert "test: Add temporary logging to debug #20975"
343 2021-06-22T21:10:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c93e123 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22308: wallet: Add missing BlockUntilSyncedToCurrent...
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346 2021-06-22T21:11:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22308: wallet: Add missing BlockUntilSyncedToCurrentChain (master...2106-wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22308
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367 2021-06-22T23:02:08  <darosior> morcos: why does the fee estimator disregard CPFP? You mentioned in https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06405.html that it would skew estimates, but how so? I don't have statistics but i think CPFP is widely used on the network and might be even more in the future with package relay and it becoming a first
368 2021-06-22T23:02:08  <darosior> class citizen in L2 protocols. It seems to me it could bias estimates downward as you would see a low-fee transaction (or actually lot of them) being confirmed quickly whereas you should not rely on their feerate as a decent estimate for being confirmed quickly. Accounting for their parent might be conservative, and accounting for it as a package
369 2021-06-22T23:02:08  <darosior> would be accurate
370 2021-06-22T23:02:45  <darosior> s/for their parent/for their child/
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