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108 2021-07-12T07:48:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #22432: fix incorrect testmempoolaccept doc (master...2021-07-testmempoolaccept-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22432
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111 2021-07-12T08:03:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8ab0c77299a5...e0fe658b863e
112 2021-07-12T08:03:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e65d1d4 Sebastian Falbesoner: doc: recommend `--disable-external-signer` in OpenBSD build guide
113 2021-07-12T08:03:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e0fe658 W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22335: doc: recommend `--disable-external-signer` in...
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116 2021-07-12T08:03:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22335: doc: recommend `--disable-external-signer` in OpenBSD build guide (master...202106-doc-openbsd_mention_missing_external_signer_support) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22335
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119 2021-07-12T08:08:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e0fe658b863e...842e2a9c54bd
120 2021-07-12T08:08:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2feec3c Vasil Dimov: net: don't bind on if binds are restricted to Tor
121 2021-07-12T08:08:48  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 842e2a9 W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#20234: net: don't bind on if binds are restr...
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124 2021-07-12T08:09:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #20234: net: don't bind on if binds are restricted to Tor (master...bind) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20234
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154 2021-07-12T12:32:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/842e2a9c54bd...839f5d06d6de
155 2021-07-12T12:32:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9169be0 glozow: fix incorrect testmempoolaccept doc
156 2021-07-12T12:32:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 839f5d0 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22432: doc: fix incorrect testmempoolaccept doc
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159 2021-07-12T12:32:32  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #22432: doc: fix incorrect testmempoolaccept doc (master...2021-07-testmempoolaccept-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22432
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171 2021-07-12T14:00:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #22433: init: remove straggling boost thread_group related code (master...struggling_thread_group) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22433
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194 2021-07-12T16:15:52  <prayank> Is there any way to make version spoofing difficult in software like Bitcoin Core?
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198 2021-07-12T16:19:20  <sipa> no
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200 2021-07-12T16:20:07  <sipa> nodes can claim whatever they want, and it really shouldn't matter
201 2021-07-12T16:22:07  <prayank> Agree. In few things it really doesn't matter. Love the freedom as well. Although some websites and analysts or even devs may look at version of different nodes and assume things that may not be correct. Also wanted to know is there any benefit in spying with a node that has old version?
202 2021-07-12T16:24:00  <sipa> if you want to spy, you run custom softwate
203 2021-07-12T16:25:41  <prayank> Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/lb6dpi/vulnerable_bitcoin_nodes/gls5wwp
204 2021-07-12T16:28:34  <sipa> is your question about whether there is a benefit to *using* an old bitcoin core version to spy with (no, spy nodes aren't bitcoin core at all, or heavily modified ones at least), or whether there is a benefit to *claiming* you're an old bitcoin core version when spying (not really, you can claim whatever you want, the data isn't used for anything except statistics etc)
205 2021-07-12T16:32:34  *** lkqwejhhgasdjhgn <lkqwejhhgasdjhgn!~kljkljklk@p200300d46f03bc008501f4d437a1a571.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
206 2021-07-12T16:34:49  <prayank> My question was about claiming. Second one. Was thinking of ways to detect such nodes and ban. Difficult to change such things and wait for merge but can atleast do for our individual nodes if we are okay with running Core with some changes.
207 2021-07-12T16:35:39  <sipa> if you do that, they'll just become better at pretending
208 2021-07-12T16:35:56  <sipa> there is no inherent way from distinguishing a real node from a spy one
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210 2021-07-12T16:40:45  <vasild> sipa: in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22387#issuecomment-878417152, do you mean that if a node is connected to e.g. only 3 others and I am one of those 3, then every time that node chooses 2 random peers to relay to, then I am very likely to be the chosen one?
211 2021-07-12T16:41:14  <sipa> right
212 2021-07-12T16:41:44  <sipa> hmm, may argument doesn't make much sense
213 2021-07-12T16:42:03  <vasild> there are some ipv4, ipv6, i2p and incoming tor ( - https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22387#issuecomment-878426183
214 2021-07-12T16:42:36  <vasild> but even for e.g. ipv4, the fact that it is ipv4 does not mean that a node is not connected to just e.g. 3 others
215 2021-07-12T16:43:02  <vasild> why? because if they are connected to just 3 others, then there would not be much to relay?
216 2021-07-12T16:43:43  <sipa> well, yes, but just fewer peers doesn't mean much, because they'll also be receiving fewer addr announcememts that get a chance to be relayed
217 2021-07-12T16:44:10  <vasild> right
218 2021-07-12T16:45:15  <vasild> It looks like after running for a long time things tend to improve, though
219 2021-07-12T16:45:23  <vasild> (a few hours)
220 2021-07-12T16:46:36  <vasild> hmm, what about starting with m_addr_token_bucket=some-high-number, e.g. 1000?
221 2021-07-12T16:47:25  <sipa> that means spamming is possible again by cycling (connect, send, disconnect) quickly
222 2021-07-12T16:47:37  <vasild> hm, right :/
223 2021-07-12T16:47:45  <vasild> stupid idea
224 2021-07-12T16:48:51  * vasild afk
225 2021-07-12T16:49:15  <sipa> anyway, i'm surprised by your numbers
226 2021-07-12T16:49:22  <sipa> but will run some more metricd myself
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231 2021-07-12T17:10:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/839f5d06d6de...7e1ba37b5dac
232 2021-07-12T17:10:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master aa72ffb fanquake: init: remove straggling boost thread_group code
233 2021-07-12T17:10:08  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7e1ba37 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22433: init: remove straggling boost thread_group re...
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236 2021-07-12T17:10:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22433: init: remove straggling boost thread_group related code (master...struggling_thread_group) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22433
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244 2021-07-12T17:32:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] salemalem opened pull request #22434: Copyright fix to 2021 from 2020 (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22434
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247 2021-07-12T17:38:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #22434: Copyright fix to 2021 from 2020 (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22434
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280 2021-07-12T19:39:20  <prayank> How many ACKs are required for a PR to get merged if the author is not from chaincode labs or blockstream or OG dev for a simple change that doesn't affect functionality in Bitcoin Core?
281 2021-07-12T19:40:20  <prayank> Are 6 enough?
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283 2021-07-12T19:44:45  <prayank> Maybe I was right in avoiding things that would have made me rich. Now I realized how things work. Also right in ignoring funding from Steve Lee. Not every Core hater is correct but they have some points. We need a Core fork. For node and WALLET.
284 2021-07-12T19:45:39  <prayank> Keep your DNS seeds and worship people like god
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287 2021-07-12T19:48:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prayank23 closed pull request #22317: doc: Highlight DNS requests part in tor.md (master...highlight-dns-request) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22317
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290 2021-07-12T19:49:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prayank23 closed pull request #22430: Fix syntax for `getindexinfo` params in help examples (master...getindexinfo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22430
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292 2021-07-12T19:50:20  <achow101> prayank[m]: usually 3 acks are enough. However the main thing is to advocate for yourself. There are 401 PRs currently open; it is unreasonable to expect that the maintainers know the status of every single one. When you believe the PR is ready to merge, you can say so in this channel or in the PR itself. You will notice that all of the people you indirectly mentioned are active participants in the IRC meetings where high priority PRs are
293 2021-07-12T19:50:20  <achow101> discussed. You will notice that frequently, when a PR goes unnoticed for a while, people will say "#X is rfm". This is all part of advocating for work that you care about, instead of just waiting for something to happen.
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295 2021-07-12T19:50:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prayank23 closed pull request #22316: doc: Add 5 privacy recommendations in tor.md (master...tor-privacy-recommend) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22316
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298 2021-07-12T19:51:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prayank23 closed pull request #21755: Add more info about prefix in error message for invalid address (master...error-address) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21755
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300 2021-07-12T19:51:12  <achow101> it's not some conspiracy or a special club of developers. it's literally just that there is so much stuff going on it's hard to keep track of. You need to be proactive and advocate for things you want
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302 2021-07-12T19:51:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prayank23 closed pull request #21870: github: Add `config.yml` for GUI issues (master...issue-templates) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21870
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310 2021-07-12T20:38:54  <robertspigler> prayank: I second achow101 's response - please reopen your PR's.  People are also especially busy right now with the 0.23 release
311 2021-07-12T20:42:01  <robertspigler> Or mark up for grabs.  People are free to fork obviously, but NACK from me (as discussed previously) - I strongly prefer a reference implementation for the 'full stack' (wallet, node, gui)
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314 2021-07-12T21:21:26  <prayank> achow101: please do not take anything for you. Because its not. Maintainers suck, And its for them. Or maybe compromised by now. However, I couldnt find a vulnerability that they introduced so they can enjoy. You need examples: Ex1: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22432 (how to merge quickly) with less ACKs. No merge after few ACKs:
315 2021-07-12T21:21:27  <prayank> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22317
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319 2021-07-12T21:33:56  <prayank> sipa answering 90% questions on SE
320 2021-07-12T21:34:15  <prayank> sipa answering q on IRC
321 2021-07-12T21:34:52  <prayank> and Bitcoin needs nothing?
322 2021-07-12T21:36:05  <prayank> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/107524/which-projects-and-services-are-responsible-for-most-of-the-bitcoin-transactions
323 2021-07-12T21:36:17  <prayank> Can someone answer this?
324 2021-07-12T21:36:29  <prayank> Is anyone working on Dandelion Lite?
325 2021-07-12T21:36:39  <prayank> Thoughts on this issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22424
326 2021-07-12T21:36:43  <prayank> No
327 2021-07-12T21:37:53  <prayank> Because nobody cares about privacy or tx
328 2021-07-12T21:38:02  <sipa> what?
329 2021-07-12T21:38:08  <sipa> excuse me?
330 2021-07-12T21:38:45  <sipa> just because a problem exists doesn't mean every solution is fine
331 2021-07-12T21:38:46  <prayank> sipa: I respect you a lot. And said nothing bad about you.
332 2021-07-12T21:39:16  <sipa> i understand our review and development process is frustrating at times
333 2021-07-12T21:39:23  <sipa> but nobody _owes_ you anything
334 2021-07-12T21:39:56  <sipa> people work on the problems they believe are most impactful, whether that is development or review
335 2021-07-12T21:40:41  <prayank> Why are they not working on simple problems with simple solutions?
336 2021-07-12T21:40:46  <sipa> like?
337 2021-07-12T21:41:04  <sipa> i personally don't believe dandelion is a viable solution, so i'm not spending time on it; i know my opinion is rather extreme, but i think many others share similar sentiments, so they will choose not to work on it
338 2021-07-12T21:41:44  <prayank> Okay I will get to specifics.. Do you care about privacy?
339 2021-07-12T21:41:53  <prayank> Does it matter?
340 2021-07-12T21:41:57  <sipa> of course?
341 2021-07-12T21:42:12  <sipa> you know i co-authored the taproot bips right?
342 2021-07-12T21:42:39  <sipa> and wrote the tor hidden service support in bitcoin core
343 2021-07-12T21:43:12  <prayank> sipa: I never said working on something that improves privacy for something 10% is bad. I am just asking.
344 2021-07-12T21:43:27  <sipa> what 10%?
345 2021-07-12T21:44:16  <prayank> How much do you think is Tor used in Core and how much do you expect Taproot in next 3 years?
346 2021-07-12T21:44:27  <sipa> i hope a lot, but i don't know
347 2021-07-12T21:44:38  <sipa> but i also don't think you can put numbers on it like that
348 2021-07-12T21:45:20  <sipa> if lightning migrates to taproot, as well as some reasonable portion of other types of transactions, i believe that will be a huge privacy boost for a ton of payments
349 2021-07-12T21:45:36  <prayank> Okay I am sorry for the numbers and I cannot talk to you like this
350 2021-07-12T21:45:41  <sipa> note that i don't think that's "sufficient" as a privacy solution, it's an improvement to one rather small aspect
351 2021-07-12T21:45:54  <sipa> but privacy is a big very multi-faceted problem
352 2021-07-12T21:46:11  <prayank> yes that last sentence is everything
353 2021-07-12T21:46:18  <prayank> privacy is a big very multi-faceted problem
354 2021-07-12T21:46:26  <sipa> all i want to say is... please be respectful of people's choices of what they work on, even if seems they disagree with yours
355 2021-07-12T21:47:10  <sipa> if you need attention to PRs of yours, especially if you think they're ready for merge, ping a maintainer
356 2021-07-12T21:47:21  <prayank> People dont care and you know... sipa if you were not there
357 2021-07-12T21:47:21  <sipa> as achow101 says, people can't keep track of everything
358 2021-07-12T21:47:41  <prayank> half questions on SE were unanswered
359 2021-07-12T21:47:49  <sipa> so?
360 2021-07-12T21:48:03  <prayank> people are able to keep track of things they want
361 2021-07-12T21:48:10  <sipa> yes, and they have their own priorities
362 2021-07-12T21:48:13  <sipa> and those aren't yours
363 2021-07-12T21:48:15  <prayank> so? we should improve
364 2021-07-12T21:48:35  <prayank> we need more devs like you
365 2021-07-12T21:48:45  <sipa> okay
366 2021-07-12T21:56:02  <prayank> Idk. I am true to myself and others. I tried everything. Its not helping. I will look for funding or do something to start a better fork (better than Luke Dash Jr). I don't care about anyone to be honest but Bitcoin. Only person I liked during conversations was Pieter Wuille, Greg Maxwell and Sometimes Drunk conversations with others. But I always
367 2021-07-12T21:56:03  <prayank> learnt a lot from sipa and I felt close to development.
368 2021-07-12T21:57:36  <prayank> This is the only reason I was not preferred for funding few weeks back. I had denied it myself and I am not here for more money.
369 2021-07-12T21:57:55  <sipa> i generally find it's most useful to work on many different things, when some of the ones you're working on don't make as much progress as you'd like
370 2021-07-12T21:58:43  <sipa> i'd advise against your own fork; it's very easy to hugely underestimate how much work goes into maintenance
371 2021-07-12T21:59:04  <sipa> but of course you're free to do what you want; it is open source
372 2021-07-12T22:00:23  <prayank> sipa: One last question
373 2021-07-12T22:00:29  <prayank> Thoughts on this issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22424
374 2021-07-12T22:00:47  <sipa> seems reasonable
375 2021-07-12T22:00:52  <prayank> Cool
376 2021-07-12T22:01:06  <sipa> but i'm not going to work on it
377 2021-07-12T22:01:51  <sipa> it does seem a rather invasive change
378 2021-07-12T22:02:01  <prayank> I will work on it or pay for devs
379 2021-07-12T22:02:55  <sipa> i'm not sure if you have enough experience with the codebase to work on something like that
380 2021-07-12T22:03:05  <prayank> Why does everything that improves privacy but not introduced by chaincode labs seems invasive?
381 2021-07-12T22:03:14  <sipa> excuse me?
382 2021-07-12T22:03:32  <prayank> Why is it invasive?
383 2021-07-12T22:03:55  <sipa> i don't see a simple way of introducing something like this
384 2021-07-12T22:04:12  <sipa> so it'll need a bunch of design to figure out how it would fit in
385 2021-07-12T22:04:21  <prayank> Solving complex problems is what for we are here
386 2021-07-12T22:04:25  <sipa> of coyrse
387 2021-07-12T22:04:53  <prayank> else copilot can do better
388 2021-07-12T22:05:13  <prayank> We need humans with intelligence
389 2021-07-12T22:05:14  <sipa> i'm just advising you that if you take on too ambitious problems, you'll just end up more frustrated when they don't make progress
390 2021-07-12T22:05:42  <prayank> It not too ambitious :(
391 2021-07-12T22:05:45  <prayank> sipa
392 2021-07-12T22:05:55  <sipa> i think it is too ambitious for you
393 2021-07-12T22:06:00  <sipa> given what i've seen
394 2021-07-12T22:07:43  <prayank> Okay I will not chat for few weeks. Already have my PowerShell project. Time to prove something. If not. Never take me seriously in life.
395 2021-07-12T22:08:04  <sipa> if you want to improve the tests, please learn python
396 2021-07-12T22:08:18  <prayank> I know python
397 2021-07-12T22:08:47  <prayank> I dont know why does working on PS mean you dont now python
398 2021-07-12T22:09:03  <sipa> i don't understand why you're interested in PS tests
399 2021-07-12T22:09:04  <prayank> I know PS better and feel comfirtable
400 2021-07-12T22:09:22  <sipa> if you can write tests in the existing test framework, and have an actual chance of getting them integrated
401 2021-07-12T22:09:23  <prayank> I will record an audio sometimes
402 2021-07-12T22:09:40  <prayank> I love to test in everything you can
403 2021-07-12T22:09:49  <prayank> like everything
404 2021-07-12T22:10:11  <sipa> what is your goal with these PS tests?
405 2021-07-12T22:13:33  <prayank> Goal: 1. Internship project 2. Nice GUI for script kiddies to play and think Bitcoin is not Digital Gold mem they can play with it and pentest. 3. Reference in Infosec Conf: I dont need followers. Bitcoin needs software devs. 4. Experiment and lets see see if we if find something new
406 2021-07-12T22:13:47  *** belcher_ is now known as belcher
407 2021-07-12T22:15:39  <sipa> okay - as long as you don't have an expectation that these tests will be integrated into the bitcoin core repository or test infrastructure
408 2021-07-12T22:15:52  <sipa> i personally don't see the point, but i also don't know PS
409 2021-07-12T22:15:58  <prayank> yeah never expected that
410 2021-07-12T22:16:18  <prayank> It will stay separate
411 2021-07-12T22:16:39  <sipa> and if it's not going to be integrated it seems like you're missing out on a huge portion of potential impact of your work
412 2021-07-12T22:16:48  <prayank> https://i.imgur.com/muxlcYH.png
413 2021-07-12T22:17:23  <sipa> yes, i saw that - i still don't really get what the goal is
414 2021-07-12T22:17:52  <sipa> but if you think it's useful, good luck
415 2021-07-12T22:19:37  *** lightlike <lightlike!~lightlike@user/lightlike> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
416 2021-07-12T22:21:20  <prayank> sipa I dont know much about you to be honest but I started using bitcoin in 2015 because of some reasons and have some background. I am not as goood as you in programming. But maybe I was never good in anything thats why chatting here today, or I care too much about Bitcoin. I think I have decided that I can do anything for Bitcoin. Younger bro
417 2021-07-12T22:21:20  <prayank> married lots of other things. I just want to focus on learning and doing better. I have issues idk. Lets see. If not Core. Fork. But Bitcoin.
418 2021-07-12T22:21:30  *** lightlike <lightlike!~lightlike@user/lightlike> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
419 2021-07-12T22:22:34  <sipa> prayank: i would encourage you to find other things in life to do too; making everything about bitcoin (or any single thing) is going to drive you nuts
420 2021-07-12T22:22:47  <prayank> And I didn't use bitcoin because of number go up FYI
421 2021-07-12T22:23:35  <sipa> anyway, this is getting off topic, and i have some code to write
422 2021-07-12T22:23:53  <prayank> Thanks for your time
423 2021-07-12T22:24:01  *** prayank <prayank!~prayank@> has quit IRC (Quit: Client closed)
424 2021-07-12T22:29:24  *** Guyver2 <Guyver2!Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
425 2021-07-12T22:35:30  <robertspigler> prayank: I don't understand why you are in such a bad mood today. Burning bridges helps no one.  We are all on the same team here, and you are getting good advice from people you are being a bit rude to. I have enjoyed working on doc changes with you. If you are getting frustrated with the process maybe you need a little vacation. It is like any other job
426 2021-07-12T22:49:49  <luke-jr> he left :/