1 2021-07-15T00:00:04  <Bilnon> I dont know how these idiot get their papers published, this is a terrible idea written by morons who clearly cant grasp even the basic concepts of bitcoin
  2 2021-07-15T00:00:14  <Bilnon> how the hell is this paper on arvix
  3 2021-07-15T00:01:01  <Bilnon> all this paper is useful for is reference material to backup an elaborate scam project
  4 2021-07-15T00:01:07  <sipa> arxiv is not "published"; it's a preprint server
  5 2021-07-15T00:01:11  <sipa> it is not reviewed
  6 2021-07-15T00:01:39  <Bilnon> ah i see
  7 2021-07-15T00:01:58  <Bilnon> where would I find published papers
  8 2021-07-15T00:02:03  <roconnor> Published in: 2019 IEEE International Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency (ICBC)
  9 2021-07-15T00:02:33  <sipa> now, that's more concerning
 10 2021-07-15T00:03:06  <Bilnon> what is more concerning sipa?
 11 2021-07-15T00:05:09  <sipa> oh, roconnor was just giving an example, not claiming this particular paper was also published in ICBC?
 12 2021-07-15T00:05:28  <Bilnon> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/home.jsp > 5,357,020 articles X'D
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 14 2021-07-15T00:05:51  <Bilnon> sipa yes i believe he was just pointing me in the right direction
 15 2021-07-15T00:06:25  <Bilnon> I think Vitalik is a complete fraud too tbh
 16 2021-07-15T00:06:59  <Bilnon> I thought his "Ethereum 2.0" whitepaper was a shambles, and most of what he says online just seems to be regurgitated copy-pasta
 17 2021-07-15T00:07:37  <sipa> this is getting off-topic
 18 2021-07-15T00:07:41  <Bilnon> a pseudo intellectual - just trying to maintain a peg as a creditable voice within cypto
 19 2021-07-15T00:10:13  <Bilnon> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339481056_Blockchain_and_Machine_Learning_for_Communications_and_Networking_Systems/link/5eb26602a6fdcc7050ad720b/download
 20 2021-07-15T00:10:53  <Bilnon> this guy is just as bad, rattles on about some nonsense for most of it treating the reader like they just picked up a "teach yourself ML for dummies in 6 hours" book
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 22 2021-07-15T00:12:31  <Bilnon> urgh they all revolve around using ML as intelligent mining alternatives so unorignal and vague, throw these sub-humans in the blender plz
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 24 2021-07-15T00:13:33  <roconnor_> Bilnon's arxiv paper was published at that IEEE conference.
 25 2021-07-15T00:14:09  <roconnor_> sorry, you are right this is off topic
 26 2021-07-15T00:14:12  <Bilnon> "hybrid consensus (DAG PoS + uPoW)"
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 28 2021-07-15T00:14:28  <Bilnon> suggested ontopic grouo?
 29 2021-07-15T00:16:03  <Bilnon> what gets to me the most with acronyms like "uPoW" is how much these people take for granted the proof-of-work scheme used in bitcoin, like that useful proofs of work could be integrated at all without converting the entire system to a PoS system,
 30 2021-07-15T00:16:38  <Bilnon> how can people be this thick and not understand how PoW works at all, completely miss the point of what makes it such a good system.
 31 2021-07-15T00:17:28  <sipa> you're preaching to the choir here
 32 2021-07-15T00:17:39  <sipa> and it's unrelated to the development of the bitcoin core software
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 34 2021-07-15T00:23:33  <Bilnon> just throwing it out there, thought there might be some people who agree
 35 2021-07-15T00:25:55  <Bilnon> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8855738 - "Is Bitcoin Mining Halal? Investigating the Sharia Compliance of Bitcoin Mining"
 36 2021-07-15T00:28:43  <sipa> last warning: this is off topic
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 63 2021-07-15T05:37:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/531c2b7c0489...fdf9b3eba3bc
 64 2021-07-15T05:37:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0c845e3 Hennadii Stepanov: test: Fix wallet_listdescriptors.py if bdb is not compiled
 65 2021-07-15T05:37:51  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fdf9b3e fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22446: test: Fix wallet_listdescriptors.py if bdb is...
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 68 2021-07-15T05:38:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #22446: test: Fix wallet_listdescriptors.py if bdb is not compiled (master...210714-desc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22446
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 74 2021-07-15T06:31:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fdf9b3eba3bc...e2c4ac7cfb58
 75 2021-07-15T06:31:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5a1ed96 Jon Atack: test: whitelist rpc_rawtransaction peers to speed up tests
 76 2021-07-15T06:31:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a3d6ec5 Jon Atack: test: move rpc_rawtransaction tests to < 30s group
 77 2021-07-15T06:31:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e2c4ac7 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22447: test: whitelist rpc_rawtransaction peers to s...
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 80 2021-07-15T06:32:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #22447: test: whitelist rpc_rawtransaction peers to speed up tests (master...speed-up-rpc_rawtransaction-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22447
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 83 2021-07-15T06:36:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e2c4ac7cfb58...97153a702600
 84 2021-07-15T06:36:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa11fec MarcoFalke: doc: Move buried deployment doc to the enum that enumerates them
 85 2021-07-15T06:36:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa5658e MarcoFalke: Use DeploymentEnabled to hide VB deployments
 86 2021-07-15T06:36:25  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 97153a7 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22385: refactor: Use DeploymentEnabled to hide VB de...
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 89 2021-07-15T06:36:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22385: refactor: Use DeploymentEnabled to hide VB deployments (master...2107-dep) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22385
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100 2021-07-15T09:05:48  <jnewbery> laanwj MarcoFalke: looks like #22415 is RFM
101 2021-07-15T09:05:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22415 | Make m_mempool optional in CChainState by jamesob · Pull Request #22415 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
102 2021-07-15T09:49:29  <tutwidi[m]> Why satoshi 21.1 only one peers in real connected? Can you explain
103 2021-07-15T09:55:23  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
104 2021-07-15T09:55:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22453: fuzz: Speed up rolling_bloom_filter fuzz test (master...2107-fuzzRoll) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22453
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106 2021-07-15T10:11:40  <tutwidi[m]> there really shouldn't be any debate here.  this should be the place to focus on better development
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113 2021-07-15T10:38:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22454: fuzz: Limit max ops in tx_pool fuzz targets (master...2107-fuzzPool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22454
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120 2021-07-15T11:42:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/97153a702600...c0224bc96287
121 2021-07-15T11:42:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6176617 James O'Beirne: validation: make CChainState::m_mempool optional
122 2021-07-15T11:42:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46e3efd James O'Beirne: refactor: move UpdateMempoolForReorg into CChainState
123 2021-07-15T11:42:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4abf077 James O'Beirne: refactor: no mempool arg to GetCoinsCacheSizeState
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126 2021-07-15T11:42:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22415: Make m_mempool optional in CChainState (master...2021-07-mempool-ptr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22415
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129 2021-07-15T11:48:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #22455: addrman: detect on-disk corrupted nNew and nTried during unserialization (master...addrman_detect_negative) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22455
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132 2021-07-15T12:04:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #22456: [WIP] build: Use specific cross-compilers instead of multilib one (master...210715-multilib) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22456
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136 2021-07-15T12:14:06  <vasild> jnewbery: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22455 -- the underlying issue is that nNew came as -1 from disk (fuzzer), from here one way or another we are f**d up
137 2021-07-15T12:17:50  <vasild> one more clarification: if ResetI2PPorts() is removed from Unserialize() (== remove commit e0a2b39), then that fuzzer input does not produce a crash, which may create the impression that ResetI2PPorts()/e0a2b39 is the problem, but it is not. It does not crash because that fuzzer input contains nNew=-1 and only "tried" entries (no "new" ones) and in order to crash later in serialize it is
138 2021-07-15T12:17:57  <vasild> necessary to have at least one "new" and nNew=-1
139 2021-07-15T12:18:45  <vasild> ResetI2PPorts() just adds one "new" entry
140 2021-07-15T12:19:32  <vasild> It should be possible to produce an input which crashes even when ResetI2PPorts()/e0a2b39 is removed: nNew=1 and one new entry
141 2021-07-15T12:19:48  <vasild> I mean nNew=-1 and one new entry
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143 2021-07-15T12:50:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/c0224bc96287...21998bc028d6
144 2021-07-15T12:50:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 566357f Jon Atack: refactor: move GetRandomNodeEvictionCandidates() to test utilities
145 2021-07-15T12:50:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5adb064 Jon Atack: bench: add peer eviction protection benchmarks
146 2021-07-15T12:50:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 02e411e Jon Atack: p2p: iterate eviction protection only on networks having candidates
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149 2021-07-15T12:50:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22284: p2p, refactor: performance improvements to ProtectEvictionCandidatesByRatio() (master...ProtectEvictionCandidatesByRatio-perf-enhancements) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22284
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152 2021-07-15T12:56:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22457: refactor: Remove unused disconnectpool is nullptr feature (master...2107-refactorDisconnectPool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22457
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155 2021-07-15T12:57:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/21998bc028d6...d86e6625e857
156 2021-07-15T12:57:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2584929 Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: Add steps for transifex to release process
157 2021-07-15T12:57:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a16378e Wladimir J. van der Laan: doc: Remove unnecessary steps from translations update process
158 2021-07-15T12:57:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d86e662 W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22369: doc: Add steps for Transifex to release proce...
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161 2021-07-15T12:58:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22369: doc: Add steps for Transifex to release process (master...update-transifex-release-process) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22369
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174 2021-07-15T14:43:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d86e6625e857...853ac47705c8
175 2021-07-15T14:43:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa84cae Brian Liotti: doc: added info to bitcoin.conf doc
176 2021-07-15T14:43:54  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 853ac47 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22393: doc: added info to bitcoin.conf doc
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179 2021-07-15T14:44:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22393: doc: added info to bitcoin.conf doc (master...patch-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22393
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182 2021-07-15T14:54:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/853ac47705c8...a88fa1a55519
183 2021-07-15T14:54:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ba45f02 Vasil Dimov: net: relay I2P addresses even if not reachable (by us)
184 2021-07-15T14:54:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8674281 Vasil Dimov: test: use NODE_* constants instead of magic numbers
185 2021-07-15T14:54:04  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 33e211d Vasil Dimov: test: implement ser/unser of I2P addresses in functional tests
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188 2021-07-15T14:54:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22211: net: relay I2P addresses even if not reachable (by us) (master...i2p_IsRelayable) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22211
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191 2021-07-15T15:01:25  <laanwj> rc1 looks pretty close? just #22387 (well-reviewed, alsmost ready to merge?) and #22421 (rfm, but a small refactor is requested, no need for it to be a blocker though), #21711 (documentation, ready to go, but could go in later)
192 2021-07-15T15:01:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22387 | Rate limit the processing of rumoured addresses by sipa · Pull Request #22387 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
193 2021-07-15T15:01:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
194 2021-07-15T15:01:32  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21711 | guix: Add full installation and usage documentation by dongcarl · Pull Request #21711 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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196 2021-07-15T15:04:26  <laanwj> depending on #22450 i guess
197 2021-07-15T15:04:27  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450 | addrman serialize: nNew was wrong, oh ow · Issue #22450 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
198 2021-07-15T15:10:06  <laanwj> depending on how serious that problem is we might still do rc1 without it, just to get wider testing going, as there will likely be many other issues (due to changing the build system, for example), it'd be unlikely for rc1 to be final
199 2021-07-15T15:11:46  <jonatack> yay!  (will propose an update for the hardcoded seeds and doc/i2p.md -- warn it can be slow for IBD and maybe some info about routers, that people continue to report / ask for -- those can go in later)
200 2021-07-15T15:13:51  <laanwj> great! yes might be a good idea to make those wait for after rc1, a lot of people will likely be testing with I2p for the first time so i suppose there will be more changes there
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206 2021-07-15T15:32:25  <robertspigler> Exciting times!
207 2021-07-15T15:36:49  *** TheRec <TheRec!~toto@user/therec> has quit IRC ()
208 2021-07-15T15:44:20  *** jarthur <jarthur!~jarthur@2603-8080-1540-002d-3440-ee66-189d-dbb7.res6.spectrum.com> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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210 2021-07-15T16:10:27  <ariard> #proposemeetingtopic coredev quick updates
211 2021-07-15T16:23:37  <ron-slc> any word on why bitcoin.org is down?
212 2021-07-15T16:23:46  *** Talkless <Talkless!~Talkless@mail.dargis.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
213 2021-07-15T16:24:09  <luke-jr> ron-slc: Cobra was ranting about it being DDoS'd on Twitter
214 2021-07-15T16:24:16  *** jonatack <jonatack!~jonatack@user/jonatack> has quit IRC (Quit: Client closed)
215 2021-07-15T16:24:21  <luke-jr> off-topic here tho, further ?s to #bitcoin please
216 2021-07-15T16:35:09  <jnewbery> laanwj: it looks to me like #22112 introduced a way for addrman's data to become inconsistent. I think we need a fix for that before we cut an rc1
217 2021-07-15T16:35:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22112 | Force port 0 in I2P by vasild · Pull Request #22112 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
218 2021-07-15T16:38:47  <sipa> that sounds scary
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220 2021-07-15T16:47:55  <jnewbery> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450#issuecomment-880602891
221 2021-07-15T16:52:29  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
222 2021-07-15T16:52:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #22461: wallet: Change ScriptPubKeyMan::Upgrade default to True (master...implement-desc-upgrade) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22461
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229 2021-07-15T17:22:49  <laanwj> it wasn't clear to me how the bug can be triggered
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234 2021-07-15T18:19:08  *** sipa <sipa!~pw@user/sipa> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
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238 2021-07-15T18:27:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #22457: refactor: Remove unused "disconnectpool is nullptr" feature (master...2107-refactorDisconnectPool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22457
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240 2021-07-15T18:31:43  *** kiran <kiran!~quassel@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
241 2021-07-15T18:32:08  <MarcoFalke> This should only affect I2P?
242 2021-07-15T18:32:22  <MarcoFalke> which is experimental anyway
243 2021-07-15T18:41:24  <laanwj> it affects nodes that have I2P addresses in their addrman, but i guess pre-0.22 won't store them
244 2021-07-15T18:42:50  <laanwj> but it may cause problems later, as they accumulate; as long as we don't know the exact cause it's risky
245 2021-07-15T19:00:17  <laanwj> #startmeeting
246 2021-07-15T19:00:17  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Jul 15 19:00:17 2021 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
247 2021-07-15T19:00:17  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
248 2021-07-15T19:00:23  <hebasto> hi
249 2021-07-15T19:00:24  <meshcollider> hi
250 2021-07-15T19:00:37  <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos
251 2021-07-15T19:00:39  <laanwj> nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
252 2021-07-15T19:00:51  <achow101> Hi
253 2021-07-15T19:00:56  <kvaciral[m]> hi
254 2021-07-15T19:00:58  <laanwj> one proposed meeting topic: coredev quick updates (ariard)
255 2021-07-15T19:01:01  <laanwj> any last minute ones?
256 2021-07-15T19:01:04  <ariard> hi
257 2021-07-15T19:01:59  <laanwj> #topic 22.0
258 2021-07-15T19:01:59  <core-meetingbot> topic: 22.0
259 2021-07-15T19:02:52  <MarcoFalke> blocked by #22450, I guess (per previous discussion)
260 2021-07-15T19:02:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450 | addrman serialize: nNew was wrong, oh ow · Issue #22450 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
261 2021-07-15T19:03:01  *** jonatack <jonatack!~jonatack@user/jonatack> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
262 2021-07-15T19:03:05  <laanwj> we're getting even closer, the last PRs are nearly ready for merge https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/47 , after which we should tag rc1 imo, but some last-minute issue came up while fuzzing addrman serialization (#22450)
263 2021-07-15T19:03:05  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22450 | addrman serialize: nNew was wrong, oh ow · Issue #22450 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
264 2021-07-15T19:03:07  <jonatack> hi
265 2021-07-15T19:04:22  <MarcoFalke> sipa: What is the status of #22421 ?
266 2021-07-15T19:04:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
267 2021-07-15T19:04:28  <jamesob> hi
268 2021-07-15T19:05:12  <laanwj> it seems to do what is said, so i'm fine with merging it as-is and doing the requested refactor later
269 2021-07-15T19:05:51  <laanwj> but as rc1 is blocked on something else there is no need to rush
270 2021-07-15T19:06:34  <MarcoFalke> Agree that there is no rush, but I have a slight preference to merge code that will be removed again right after
271 2021-07-15T19:06:43  <MarcoFalke> *not
272 2021-07-15T19:07:30  <gene> hi
273 2021-07-15T19:07:33  *** sipa <sipa!~pw@108-65-77-11.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
274 2021-07-15T19:07:39  <sipa> hi
275 2021-07-15T19:07:44  <laanwj> that's what i mean with there being no rush, we can wait a few days probably for sipa to change it or someone else to open a PR that takes it over if he isn't able to
276 2021-07-15T19:07:58  <sipa> sorry, my computed died
277 2021-07-15T19:08:09  <laanwj> if we wanted to cut rc1 tonight it'd be different and we could just merge it as-is
278 2021-07-15T19:08:15  <laanwj> but that's not going to happen
279 2021-07-15T19:08:25  <sipa> what do you need me to change?
280 2021-07-15T19:08:58  <luke-jr> [19:04:24] <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
281 2021-07-15T19:09:00  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22421 | Make IsSegWitOutput return true for taproot outputs by sipa · Pull Request #22421 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
282 2021-07-15T19:09:11  <sipa> oh, the switch case? will do
283 2021-07-15T19:09:18  <laanwj> MarcoFalke's suggestion about using a switch statement so future added TxoutTypes will turn up ac ompiler warning about a missing case
284 2021-07-15T19:09:20  <laanwj> yes
285 2021-07-15T19:11:09  <laanwj> #topic Coredev quick updates (ariard)
286 2021-07-15T19:11:09  <core-meetingbot> topic: Coredev quick updates (ariard)
287 2021-07-15T19:12:01  <ariard> hi
288 2021-07-15T19:12:27  <ariard> so i sent the invits beginning of weeks, have already 19 yes
289 2021-07-15T19:12:34  <ariard> half-americans/half-europeans
290 2021-07-15T19:12:43  <laanwj> nice!
291 2021-07-15T19:13:00  <ariard> bad news, the health policy of the location has changed drastically in the last 48 hours
292 2021-07-15T19:13:05  <luke-jr> >_<
293 2021-07-15T19:13:13  <ariard> 19, excluding orgas
294 2021-07-15T19:13:30  <ariard> the nos so far are in majority are aussies friends :/
295 2021-07-15T19:13:41  <ariard> hard to them to leave the country
296 2021-07-15T19:13:49  <hebasto> ariard: is there a link to the updated list of vaccines that are approved by France?
297 2021-07-15T19:14:10  <ariard> hebasto: i think that's an european thing, but will check and follow with you
298 2021-07-15T19:14:19  <hebasto> thanks!
299 2021-07-15T19:14:21  <MarcoFalke> The thing that changes was the "health passport"?
300 2021-07-15T19:14:25  <MarcoFalke> *changed
301 2021-07-15T19:14:28  <jonatack> i've been following things very closely.  the announcement is potentially pretty inconvenient for the non-treated. however, it remains to be seen what will be passed.
302 2021-07-15T19:14:33  <ariard> we crunched a bit of news with orgas on the last days and it sounds this health pass will be really applied
303 2021-07-15T19:14:54  <ariard> MarcoFalke: yep, and really enforcement of it and clear will of local authorities to harden it
304 2021-07-15T19:15:00  <luke-jr> "non-treated"?
305 2021-07-15T19:15:01  <jonatack> for now, it's only an announcement by macron and the "science council"
306 2021-07-15T19:15:25  <jonatack> luke-jr: those who did not get the injection, as the french govt would say
307 2021-07-15T19:15:32  <ariard> luke-jr: either recovery/vaccinate or PCR every 48h to do any kind of public activities
308 2021-07-15T19:16:03  <jonatack> PCR or antigen or a test result in the last 6 months that one was positive
309 2021-07-15T19:16:07  <ariard> it's still super early and we have the option to change the location in another country, more peaceful
310 2021-07-15T19:16:13  <ariard> still with the same date as a fixed point
311 2021-07-15T19:16:19  <luke-jr> tbh that sounds reasonable tho
312 2021-07-15T19:16:25  <sipa> will they recognize vaccinations given in other countries? the US doesn't really give you any kind of recognizable certificate
313 2021-07-15T19:16:38  <sipa> just a piece of paper that the pharmacist fills in
314 2021-07-15T19:16:49  <ariard> sipa: i think so, at least it's expected to make thing bearable for us tourists
315 2021-07-15T19:17:20  <jonatack> for entry, as before, and what macron is asking is for all of the shopping centers, bars, and restaurants to check identity and health status for each customer....i'm not sure how realistic it is
316 2021-07-15T19:17:24  <ariard> though things can change from a week to another, and the eu wake up a morning and withdraw a vaccin from the authorized list
317 2021-07-15T19:17:45  <jonatack> again, law not passed, only proposed by the executive
318 2021-07-15T19:18:17  <sipa> the location does seem a bit annoying to reach, though
319 2021-07-15T19:18:28  <sipa> needs 1+ extra flight compared to most major european cities
320 2021-07-15T19:18:30  <ariard> yeah french curfew wasn't effectively applied in the last week of its validity in may/june
321 2021-07-15T19:18:52  <ariard> sipa: i know though restrictions if existent will be far more cool, which was the rational
322 2021-07-15T19:19:01  <ariard> given it's not major hub
323 2021-07-15T19:19:08  <sipa> hmm, i don't follow
324 2021-07-15T19:19:20  <sipa> but ok, doesn't really matter for me
325 2021-07-15T19:19:34  <ariard> countryside might not enforce covid restrictions
326 2021-07-15T19:19:43  <jonatack> there can be pretty wide gulf between what is said and what is done
327 2021-07-15T19:19:49  <sipa> ah, i'd expect it to be country-wide, but perhaps that makes sense
328 2021-07-15T19:19:59  <jonatack> this is a latin country ;)
329 2021-07-15T19:20:27  <ariard> sipa: yeah it's france there is was decreted in paris and the rest of the country
330 2021-07-15T19:20:32  <jonatack> the police don't want to enforce it.  will likely be enforced via exceptions, not the rule.
331 2021-07-15T19:20:32  <ariard> s/was/what/g
332 2021-07-15T19:21:11  <sipa> well, people still need to be able to enter the county
333 2021-07-15T19:21:13  <sipa> +r
334 2021-07-15T19:21:30  <jonatack> we were talking about destinations that have no restrictions.  atm seems like mexico and costa rica.
335 2021-07-15T19:21:31  <ariard> that said, we reviewed quickly alternative europeans/middle america locations with loosened covid restrictions
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337 2021-07-15T19:22:23  <ariard> sipa: us can enter eu since beginning of june for tourisms travels purpose
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339 2021-07-15T19:23:19  <sipa> well, keep us posted
340 2021-07-15T19:23:41  <ariard> the question: is it worhty to play a safer fallback plan now, with lesser covid restrictions to replace france ?
341 2021-07-15T19:23:46  <ariard> like portugal or switzerland
342 2021-07-15T19:23:59  <laanwj> right, let's see how this develops for a bit, better to not book travel yet
343 2021-07-15T19:24:15  <ariard> agree, or if you do so tick the repleacable box for once
344 2021-07-15T19:24:27  <jonatack> portugal just became a hot zone that is hard to return from
345 2021-07-15T19:24:27  <BlueMatt> ariard: I mean the restrictions as-proposed don't seem insane or even that annoying, its moreso if those restrictions change.
346 2021-07-15T19:24:40  <ariard> okay let's how things evolve, we keep in mind a sound fallback plan if we have to do so
347 2021-07-15T19:25:01  <ariard> BlueMatt: yeaaah it should be okay for now if it stays as so...
348 2021-07-15T19:25:05  <luke-jr> less restrictions now could mean more later due to COVID spread?
349 2021-07-15T19:25:10  <BlueMatt> right, also that
350 2021-07-15T19:25:30  <BlueMatt> not to mention less restrictions now could mean people dont want to go if there's covid spread there come end-of-year lol
351 2021-07-15T19:25:45  <jonatack> BlueMatt: TBH what they want is vaccinations, if you are then you're good. for those who aren't, it could be more inconvenient. that is their goal.
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353 2021-07-15T19:26:02  <ariard> luke-jr: we're considering really geographically isolated places with stable covid restrictions on the last 9 months
354 2021-07-15T19:26:35  <jonatack> unless they close the borders again but last year that didn't happen until december IIRC
355 2021-07-15T19:26:39  <BlueMatt> jonatack: I mean have y'all bothered to ask if people *are* vaccinated? In my experience among bitcoin *developers* its like 100%. among bitcoin twitter users its much different.
356 2021-07-15T19:26:55  <jamesob> not vax'd
357 2021-07-15T19:26:58  <luke-jr> definitely not 100%
358 2021-07-15T19:26:59  <ariard> BlueMatt: lol i'm not and don't plan to do so :p
359 2021-07-15T19:27:02  <sipa> wut
360 2021-07-15T19:27:06  <luke-jr> I know at least 3 who aren't
361 2021-07-15T19:27:24  <jonatack> BlueMatt: nope, many aren't and a number indicated to me that they won't come if it's a requirement
362 2021-07-15T19:27:28  <BlueMatt> ariard: sure, some qualify under "had postitive test and thus dont care" :)
363 2021-07-15T19:27:49  <ariard> BlueMatt: mainly that if you've aready bee positive in the last months
364 2021-07-15T19:27:59  <sipa> oh, sure
365 2021-07-15T19:28:17  <ariard> we have also few folks in countries when its *hard* to get a vaccin :/
366 2021-07-15T19:28:33  <sipa> that may change in the coming months though
367 2021-07-15T19:28:42  <ariard> hopefully, yes
368 2021-07-15T19:28:58  <BlueMatt> let me rephrase, is there anyone who (a) hasn't *had* covid such that they otherwise qualify, (b) haven't been vax'd, and (c) want to come in spite of the fact that they have no antibodies to covid?
369 2021-07-15T19:29:08  <jonatack> BlueMatt: yes
370 2021-07-15T19:29:15  <ariard> BlueMatt: yes
371 2021-07-15T19:29:20  <sipa> that seems to be the key word around this event, "hopefully"
372 2021-07-15T19:29:44  <ariard> sipa: hopefully we won't have covid restrictions 2 years from now but who knows?
373 2021-07-15T19:29:49  <sipa> of course
374 2021-07-15T19:29:52  <ariard> we might yet-another year running on this pace
375 2021-07-15T19:30:27  <BlueMatt> well another option then is the us pending watching restrictions over the coming month or so. it seems likely the us will relax the inbound-tourist restirctions given eu pressure on the us to be symmetric.
376 2021-07-15T19:30:46  <BlueMatt> and once here there's much less likely to be any new restrictions on movement/gathering than other places.
377 2021-07-15T19:30:53  <luke-jr> FL hasn't really ever had any restrictions if you can get into the country :p
378 2021-07-15T19:30:58  <ariard> okay let's play hope for now, keep a consistant fallback plan if france get in some administrative folly, and don't take travel plans without cancelling options
379 2021-07-15T19:31:14  <ariard> luke-jr: was there a month ago, nice state :)
380 2021-07-15T19:31:22  <sipa> so the plan is still same date, same place?
381 2021-07-15T19:31:26  <sipa> barring other news?
382 2021-07-15T19:31:33  <ariard> BlueMatt: yeah if the us really relax fallbacking on NYC/boston could be easy
383 2021-07-15T19:31:48  <ariard> sipa: for now, yes and we're keeping a strong eye on evolution
384 2021-07-15T19:31:57  <BlueMatt> right, nyc is probably easy.
385 2021-07-15T19:32:09  <jonatack> the US is difficult for many people.  would suggest a destination people can enter
386 2021-07-15T19:32:24  <sipa> US is not easy to enter i assume, right now
387 2021-07-15T19:32:35  <BlueMatt> right, that's assuming the entering restriction is relaxed, but there's lots of eu pressure on dc to do that sooner rather than later.
388 2021-07-15T19:32:36  <luke-jr> maybe El Salvador would make exceptions as needed XD
389 2021-07-15T19:32:37  <ariard> yes have this issue with UK, not legally friendly hmmmm
390 2021-07-15T19:32:49  <BlueMatt> I dont think the UK is an option right now.
391 2021-07-15T19:33:11  <jonatack> nope (csw etc)
392 2021-07-15T19:33:33  <ariard> i know some contributors who had issues getting in the us in the past
393 2021-07-15T19:33:54  <ariard> well, not other news :)
394 2021-07-15T19:34:04  <laanwj> any other topics?
395 2021-07-15T19:34:39  <laanwj> #endmeeting
396 2021-07-15T19:34:39  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
397 2021-07-15T19:34:39  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Jul 15 19:34:39 2021 UTC.
398 2021-07-15T19:34:39  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-07-15-19.00.moin.txt
399 2021-07-15T19:34:55  <luke-jr> fwiw achow101 made gitian descriptors that do the guix build for you
400 2021-07-15T19:35:09  <luke-jr> #22439
401 2021-07-15T19:35:10  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22439 | build: Use guix within gitian by achow101 · Pull Request #22439 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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404 2021-07-15T19:54:52  <gene> thanks for the meeting everybody
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408 2021-07-15T20:00:58  <robertspigler> What's the purpose of using guix within gitian? Doesn't that reintroduce dependencies/security concerns that were the purpose of transitioning from gitian->guix?
409 2021-07-15T20:04:45  <luke-jr> robertspigler: it's familiar, and more secure. Guix doesn't actually provide most of the benefits claimed.
410 2021-07-15T20:04:54  <laanwj> only for the people that use it that way, assuming they'll compare their output to builders that use guix differently, they'll notice
411 2021-07-15T20:06:36  <luke-jr> unfortunately, even within gitian there is still a huge increase in resource cost and debatable reduction in security, but it's better than nothing
412 2021-07-15T20:06:46  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
413 2021-07-15T20:06:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kiminuo opened pull request #22463: [TESTBED][NO-MERGE] Verbosity level 3 getblock rebase (master...verbosity-level-3-getblock-rebase) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22463
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415 2021-07-15T20:06:52  <kanzure> catching up on the backlog- so france is still the pick?
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417 2021-07-15T20:08:19  <luke-jr> kanzure: yes, but "wait and see"
418 2021-07-15T20:10:35  <robertspigler> Does it not make the build bootstrappable? And solve the issue of a malicious compiler?
419 2021-07-15T20:11:41  <luke-jr> robertspigler: no, it makes it even less bootstrappable than it was under Ubuntu
420 2021-07-15T20:12:13  <luke-jr> robertspigler: you *have* to use Guix's third party binaries
421 2021-07-15T20:12:55  <robertspigler> My understanding was that gitian was reproducible, but not bootstrappable, and that guix is an improvement to bootstrappable and reproducible
422 2021-07-15T20:12:58  <luke-jr> (Ubuntu was more 3p bins, but at least you could build them yourself if you wanted to)
423 2021-07-15T20:14:33  <luke-jr> robertspigler: maybe someday
424 2021-07-15T20:15:34  <dongcarl> robertspigler: Hi, the 3p binaries in Guix are significantly smaller, and can be reproduced with `guix build bootstrap-tarballs`
425 2021-07-15T20:15:49  <luke-jr> dongcarl: not really
426 2021-07-15T20:15:55  <luke-jr> using them to reproduce themselves doesn't count
427 2021-07-15T20:16:24  <dongcarl> Ubuntu's the same situation then.
428 2021-07-15T20:16:36  <luke-jr> no, you can build all of Ubuntu with non-Ubuntu compilers
429 2021-07-15T20:17:48  <luke-jr> and Ubuntu was run in a VM for gitian
430 2021-07-15T20:17:54  <luke-jr> which gets back to the original question:
431 2021-07-15T20:18:03  <luke-jr> this is why one would run Guix inside gitian ;)
432 2021-07-15T20:18:26  <robertspigler> dongcarl: that makes sense
433 2021-07-15T20:18:42  <robertspigler> Which brings me back to my original question - why run guix in gitian
434 2021-07-15T20:18:56  <dongcarl> Sure, I'm not going to stop anyone from choosing their own security model, that's their own choice! :-)
435 2021-07-15T20:19:05  <robertspigler> luke-jr: but those compilers aren't bootsrappable
436 2021-07-15T20:19:15  <luke-jr> robertspigler: ?
437 2021-07-15T20:19:21  <luke-jr> Guix's compiler is the only one that isn't bootstrappable
438 2021-07-15T20:20:22  <luke-jr> going from A to A proves nothing
439 2021-07-15T20:20:25  <robertspigler> It has the smallest binary seed bootstrap
440 2021-07-15T20:20:34  <luke-jr> irrelevant, it's still a binary seed
441 2021-07-15T20:21:20  * dongcarl goes back to work
442 2021-07-15T20:22:07  <robertspigler> :)
443 2021-07-15T20:24:18  <luke-jr> pretty sure the binary seed won't boot or inspect itself either, so it's snake oil really ;)
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447 2021-07-15T21:12:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #22464: bench: fix 32-bit narrowing warning in bench/peer_eviction.cpp (master...fix-32bit-narrowing-warning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22464
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449 2021-07-15T21:13:09  <jonatack>   /query hebasto
450 2021-07-15T21:13:29  <hebasto> jonatack: testing...
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452 2021-07-15T21:14:19  <jonatack> hebasto: thanks (wanted to ask you how to do a 32-bit depends build)
453 2021-07-15T21:14:54  <hebasto> what system on?
454 2021-07-15T21:15:15  <jonatack> debian (Debian 5.10.40-1 (2021-05-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux)
455 2021-07-15T21:16:14  <hebasto> `apt install g++-multilib`
456 2021-07-15T21:16:42  <hebasto> it could conflict with other packages (
457 2021-07-15T21:17:28  <hebasto> ^ related to #22456 (draft)
458 2021-07-15T21:17:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22456 | [WIP] build: Use specific cross-compilers instead of multilib one by hebasto · Pull Request #22456 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
459 2021-07-15T21:17:43  <jonatack> thanks -- installed it and seems to be ok
460 2021-07-15T21:18:18  <hebasto> conflicts are if you made cross builds for other archs
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462 2021-07-15T21:53:58  *** bombingmiami <bombingmiami!~Guest57@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
463 2021-07-15T21:54:09  <bombingmiami> belcher is a liar piece of shit is that right belcher? He got 50.000 dollars from hrf.org to attack me and my organization. I had edit privileges on Bitcoin Wiki since 2015 with the username "humanrightsfoundation" https://web.archive.org/web/20151031001911/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1025908.40. On 2020 Jun belcher was attacked me and
464 2021-07-15T21:54:09  *** bombingmiami was kicked by gribble (>_>)
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470 2021-07-15T23:09:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #22456: [WIP] build: Use specific cross-compilers instead of multilib one (master...210715-multilib) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22456
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