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 18 2021-09-01T01:56:52  <gnaf> ;;auth gnaf
 19 2021-09-01T01:56:52  <gribble> Request successful for user gnaf, hostmask gnaf!~gnaf@86-91-224-60.opennet.kpn.net. Your challenge string is: zirconium.libera.chat:#bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac
 20 2021-09-01T01:57:20  *** earnestly <earnestly!~earnest@user/earnestly> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 21 2021-09-01T02:05:09  <gnaf> ;;verify https://pastebin.com/nktNNqTa
 22 2021-09-01T02:05:09  <gribble> Error: In order to authenticate, you must be present in one of the following channels: #bitcoin-otc;#bitcoin-bans;#gribble
 23 2021-09-01T02:06:55  <gnaf> ;;verify #bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac
 24 2021-09-01T02:06:55  <gribble> Error: '#bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac' is not a valid http url.
 25 2021-09-01T02:07:26  <gnaf> ;;verify irconium.libera.chat:#bitcoin-otc:8f2f03563f52e38a1022450907e9108c382606db9dfba6f1284e3bac
 26 2021-09-01T02:07:26  <gribble> Error: Only these pastebins are supported: ['http://pastebin.com', 'https://pastebin.com', 'http://paste.debian.net', 'https://paste.debian.net', 'http://sprunge.us']
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 30 2021-09-01T02:11:13  <sipa> gnaf: wrong channel, i assume
 31 2021-09-01T02:12:53  <gnaf> sipa: no just trying to auth with gribble
 32 2021-09-01T02:14:15  <sipa> please don't spam this channel with it
 33 2021-09-01T02:15:29  <gnaf> sipa: ;;auth works but ;;verify http://pastebin.com gives me a problem
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 35 2021-09-01T02:16:59  <sipa> gnaf: i have no clue what it is supposed to do, or what you're trying to achieve; i'm only asking not to do it here
 36 2021-09-01T02:19:30  <gnaf> i am not here to spam the channel, i was trying to auth my username , but i can do without the auth
 37 2021-09-01T02:20:44  <sipa> gnaf: i'm sure you can do it in PM with the bot
 38 2021-09-01T02:22:10  <gnaf> sipa: tnx i fotgot about that one, i havnt used gribble sinds 2014
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 42 2021-09-01T02:52:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #22740: [addrman] Move serialization code to cpp (master...2021-08-move-addrman-serialize) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22740
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 57 2021-09-01T04:26:16  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] lano1106 closed pull request #22830: net: remove reinit of the onion proxy (master...tor_issues) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22830
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 60 2021-09-01T04:59:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a820e79512b6...70676e40d8c6
 61 2021-09-01T04:59:55  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 54de7b4 Andrew Chow: Allow the long term feerate to be configured, default of 10 sat/vb
 62 2021-09-01T04:59:55  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d5069fc Andrew Chow: tests: Use SelectCoinsBnB directly instead of AttemptSelection
 63 2021-09-01T04:59:55  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6a023a6 Andrew Chow: tests: Add KnapsackGroupOutputs helper function
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 66 2021-09-01T05:00:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] meshcollider merged pull request #22009: wallet: Decide which coin selection solution to use based on waste metric (master...cs-waste-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22009
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 70 2021-09-01T05:15:36  *** gnaf <gnaf!~gnaf@86-91-224-60.opennet.kpn.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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 73 2021-09-01T05:21:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] siv2r opened pull request #22851: [WIP] Add Python ChaCha20 implementation and bindings for CPP ChaCha20 implementation (master...chacha20-test-coverage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22851
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100 2021-09-01T07:24:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/70676e40d8c6...b3a2b8c29fda
101 2021-09-01T07:24:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fab53ff MarcoFalke: Remove unused SERIALIZE_METHODS for CBanEntry
102 2021-09-01T07:24:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa3bd9d MarcoFalke: Remove CBanEntry::SetNull
103 2021-09-01T07:24:26  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b3a2b8c MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22849: Remove unused SERIALIZE_METHODS for CBanEntry...
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106 2021-09-01T07:24:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22849: Remove unused SERIALIZE_METHODS for CBanEntry (master...2109-remBanEntrySer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22849
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111 2021-09-01T07:33:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #22853: fuzz: Remove addrdb fuzz target (master...2109-fuzzRemT) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22853
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126 2021-09-01T08:47:46  <laanwj> just reminded again that we don't currently have metadata backup for the GUI repository like we have for bitcoin/bitcoin in zw/bitcoin-gh-meta
127 2021-09-01T08:52:06  <laanwj> this would be useful for ghwatch and the list-pulls script, as well as for archival in general
128 2021-09-01T08:54:43  <jonatack> hm, nor for any of the repos in https://github.com/bitcoin-core, IIUC (?)
129 2021-09-01T08:57:10  <laanwj> right
130 2021-09-01T08:57:37  <laanwj> it would make sense to do it for all repos under bitcoin and bitcoin-core
131 2021-09-01T08:58:34  <laanwj> but it would be a lot of hassle to create a mirror-repo for every one
132 2021-09-01T09:00:23  <laanwj> mmy grouping it into one archive repo would be best-it's not like the most of the other repositories see a lot of traffic on top of what bitcoin/bitcoin gets
133 2021-09-01T09:02:48  <laanwj> secp256k1's discussion would be also pretty important to archive
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135 2021-09-01T09:07:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #22855: RBF move 3/3: improve RBF documentation (master...2021-09-rbf-docs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22855
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177 2021-09-01T14:35:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] darosior closed pull request #22665: policy/rbf: don't return "incorrect" replaceability status (master...rbf_optin_nomempool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22665
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182 2021-09-01T14:44:26  <laanwj> 22.0 has an impressive number of merged PRs
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184 2021-09-01T14:48:47  <vasild> :-)
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201 2021-09-01T15:53:40  *** lkqwejhhgasdjhgn <lkqwejhhgasdjhgn!~kljkljklk@p200300d46f389600b4e4d0b7f431ada8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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205 2021-09-01T16:08:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jesseposner closed pull request #21301: [WIP] Chacha20 py testing (master...chacha20-py-testing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21301
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208 2021-09-01T16:17:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 10 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b3a2b8c29fda...7e75400bb568
209 2021-09-01T16:17:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7f07359 Jon Atack: Test src/node/transaction::GetTransaction() without -txindex
210 2021-09-01T16:17:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8c19d13 Jon Atack: refactor: dedup/reorg createrawtransaction sequence number tests
211 2021-09-01T16:17:50  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0097740 Jon Atack: refactor: txid to constant in rpc_rawtransaction to isolate tests
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214 2021-09-01T16:18:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22437: test, refactor: add GetTransaction() coverage, improve rpc_rawtransaction (master...improve-gettransaction-test-coverage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22437
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233 2021-09-01T17:53:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] shoryak opened pull request #22856: Modifications in ComplexMempool benchmark (master...complexmempool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22856
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247 2021-09-01T19:06:46  <laanwj> added the list of changes and author credits to the 22.0 release notes draft in the wiki, please double-check : https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/22.0-Release-Notes-draft#220-change-log
248 2021-09-01T19:06:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/220 | Wallet and key import and export by sipa · Pull Request #220 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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250 2021-09-01T19:27:11  <sipa> haha
251 2021-09-01T19:27:16  <sipa> silly gribble
252 2021-09-01T19:30:27  <michaelfolkson> gribble wants us to go back to 0.22 versioning. Can't cope
253 2021-09-01T19:31:20  <michaelfolkson> I do wonder if that will cause headaches for other people
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255 2021-09-01T19:33:19  <shiza> It's not too late to roll back such mistake. :D
256 2021-09-01T19:34:44  <michaelfolkson> gribble ACKs that :)
257 2021-09-01T19:48:29  <jonatack> laanwj: heh nice, the script handles unicode in PR titles :D ... a few 22.0 pulls seem to be missing: manually edit the wiki?  send info by IRC?
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260 2021-09-01T20:26:30  <prayank> 1. Is there anything in Bitcoin Core that prevents situation in which my node has 8 outbound connections (2 ipv4, 2 ipv6, 2 onion, 2 i2p) but in reality they are addresses of 2 nodes.
261 2021-09-01T20:26:40  <prayank> 2. If my node has only 2 outbound connections: onion and i2p. What are the things that can help me know they are both addresses of same node?
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264 2021-09-01T20:41:44  <sipa> prayank: there is generally no way to identify nodes, so no, you can't know
265 2021-09-01T20:48:35  <jonatack> prayank: (you know this, but just saying for anyone reading) in addition to the 8 outbound full and 2 outbound block relay peers, there are 8 additional outbound slots one can use for -addnode (manual) connections to peers selected for their diversity, connectedness, honesty or other desirable qualities
266 2021-09-01T20:49:38  <prayank> sipa: blocks synced, UA, rebroadcast txs, version and maybe other p2p messages can help? Question 1 above is about avoiding getting connected to attackers/spy and assume we have different nodes in outbound. Question 2 affects privacy of people listening on multiple networks especially onion and garlic.
267 2021-09-01T20:55:52  <sipa> prayank: if you find a way to tell that two connections are to the same node, it means you can infer the network topology
268 2021-09-01T20:56:08  <sipa> opinions on this differ, but imho, that's undesirable
269 2021-09-01T20:56:40  <sipa> well, not quite the full topology, but it's part of it
270 2021-09-01T20:59:13  <prayank> What should be the best practices? Maybe have lots of outbound and inbound connections? Other things can be avoid using fancy things in UA, don't share addresses on social media and maybe that rebroadcast PR if merged can also help
271 2021-09-01T21:01:40  <michaelfolkson> Any view on I2P versus Tor if you had to choose one jonatack (or anyone else)? I read that I2P is maybe more robust, reliable than Tor which surprised me given that I'd never heard of I2P until you started working on it
272 2021-09-01T21:01:46  <sipa> more connections generally means worse privacy (just more things that can be observed)
273 2021-09-01T21:02:18  <sipa> more connections help the network, and in particular partition resistance
274 2021-09-01T21:02:56  <sipa> michaelfolkson: anonymity set with I2P is smaller, just by being a smaller network
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276 2021-09-01T21:04:46  <michaelfolkson> More connections, harder to be eclipsed
277 2021-09-01T21:05:05  <sipa> yes, that's what partition resistance means
278 2021-09-01T21:05:31  <sipa> well, it's broader - eclipse attacks are attempts to isolate a single target node
279 2021-09-01T21:05:53  <michaelfolkson> Oh I had them as separate things. Partition resistance as the network splitting in two and eclipse as the network potentially being fine but an adversary controlling all your peers
280 2021-09-01T21:05:56  <sipa> partitions are broader, where you just have two groups of nodes that are not interconnected
281 2021-09-01T21:06:23  <sipa> (or only interconnected by attackers)
282 2021-09-01T21:06:31  <michaelfolkson> Global versus local partitions I guess
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284 2021-09-01T21:11:15  <michaelfolkson> Certainly in the Erlay discussions/motivation more connections is seen as a good thing to avoid eclipse attacks and improve tx propagation. Depends if you are interested in that more or privacy more
285 2021-09-01T21:12:43  <michaelfolkson> You can't really have best practices if there are trade-offs and everyone has different preferences with regards to those trade-offs
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287 2021-09-01T21:15:38  <sipa> imho those are design decisions, about how things should work by default
288 2021-09-01T21:15:57  <sipa> you can't assume that people follow best practices, at least not w.r.t your own privacy
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290 2021-09-01T21:16:21  <sipa> and certainly can't assume people read documentatiom
291 2021-09-01T21:17:22  <michaelfolkson> Indeed :)
292 2021-09-01T21:18:02  <prayank> More I read about anything, more I feel there is no privacy online. We are just playing Tom and Jerry. michaelfolkson: i2p vs Tor basic differences: https://github.com/prayank23/Learning-Bitcoin-from-the-Command-Line/blob/i2p/15_0_Using_i2p.md (Tor is better in few things and as sipa mentioned it has more nodes)
293 2021-09-01T21:18:33  <michaelfolkson> Best practices sounds to me like advice or guidance rather than defaults
294 2021-09-01T21:19:38  <michaelfolkson> Choosing a single default for all users is impossible (although you have to land somewhere)
295 2021-09-01T21:19:46  <prayank> Not reusing a bitcoin adress is a best practice
296 2021-09-01T21:21:17  <michaelfolkson> Ok not really a downside to not doing that though apart from marginal additional software complexity
297 2021-09-01T21:22:07  <michaelfolkson> prayank: Thanks, this is the link I was looking for https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/tor
298 2021-09-01T21:22:39  <michaelfolkson> Cool you are contributing to Learning Bitcoin from Command Line
299 2021-09-01T21:24:00  <prayank> michaelfolkson: that page was last updated in 2016, so I had researched few things from other places and wrote in the table
300 2021-09-01T21:24:43  <sipa> prayank: i agree, but just telling people not to reuse addresses isn't going to do much; designing software such that not reusing is easier is
301 2021-09-01T21:25:16  <prayank> +1
302 2021-09-01T21:25:23  <sipa> that's not to say that documentation is pointless; obvioisly not, it goes a long way towards educating
303 2021-09-01T21:25:28  <michaelfolkson> prayank: Nice. I'm assuming the I2P site might be a touch biased in favor of I2P too :)
304 2021-09-01T21:25:40  <sipa> but just that isn't going to cut it
305 2021-09-01T21:25:42  <jonatack> michaelfolkson: for now there are only a few dozen i2p peers, as sipa mentioned.  maybe it depends on your goals, but running dual tor+i2p (or all networks ip/tor/i2p) might be interesting from a robustness standpoint; if one of the privacy networks has issues, like the tor consensus nodes causing network liveness issues last jan and feb, or if
306 2021-09-01T21:25:43  <jonatack> your i2p router stops working and needs to be restarted, the other may function as a backup.
307 2021-09-01T21:25:43  <earnestly> nudge theory is quite a horrible technique in practice
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309 2021-09-01T21:28:50  <michaelfolkson> jonatack: Right for now that makes sense. Just wondering about long term "winner" and if I2P has long term strengths over Tor
310 2021-09-01T21:29:25  <michaelfolkson> Don't know if it is winner take all in privacy protocols, perhaps it isn't
311 2021-09-01T21:29:27  <sipa> in terms of paryition resistance, more networks is just better :)
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315 2021-09-01T21:37:43  <jonatack> bitcoind p2p over i2p generally seems to have higher latency (slower), some router reliability issues afaics (at least, with older versions of i2pd or recent versions on some platforms), and some people say it has a history of bugginess.  otoh, i do not know if the i2p network sees fewer attacks like what tor v3 saw at the start of this year.  at
316 2021-09-01T21:37:43  <jonatack> any rate it's a little early to run only i2p, but some people began their first experiments trying bitcoin over i2p by running onlynet=i2p (and reported two months for IBD)
317 2021-09-01T21:39:36  <jonatack> that's only what i see/hear. it might not be accurate :)
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319 2021-09-01T21:41:27  <michaelfolkson> jonatack: Interesting, have you chatted to I2P devs? Presumably having it in Core is a win for them
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321 2021-09-01T21:46:37  <michaelfolkson> Trusted directory servers (Tor) versus Distributed network database (I2P)
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325 2021-09-01T22:12:49  <b10c> reposting this as I'm not sure how much attention it got already: https://arxiv.org/abs/2108.00815
326 2021-09-01T22:15:13  <sipa> b10c: i saw it
327 2021-09-01T22:15:24  <b10c> prayank: authors claim they (and the entity launching the attack) can find out the addresses for a node listening on multiple interfaces. eg IPv4, IPv6, Tor and I2P
328 2021-09-01T22:16:03  <b10c> sipa: based on my understanding, their claims are reasonable. do you agree?
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330 2021-09-01T22:16:58  <prayank> b10c: Interesting. Reading pdf.
331 2021-09-01T22:19:33  <sipa> b10c: yes, it's a reasonable theory that that's the goal of the attack
332 2021-09-01T22:21:01  <sipa> and i also believe that they indeed can infer connections to the same node... which is why i'd consider it an attack
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334 2021-09-01T22:21:27  <sipa> some of the improvements in 22.0 will make this harder (the rate limiting of addr relay etc), but it won't fix it entirely
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339 2021-09-01T22:51:42  <b10c> sipa: any other, not yet implemented, ways of making similar attacks harder? slight randomness in the addr msg timestamp when relaying or breaking the addr msg fingerprint by replacing IPs with other previously learned IPs if the msg contains >X IPs?
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341 2021-09-01T22:53:18  <sipa> b10c: the real solution, i fear, is having a separate addrman for each network
342 2021-09-01T22:57:08  <b10c> sipa: hmm. thanks though!
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344 2021-09-01T22:59:12  * b10c thinking about building more monitoring for these addr attacks (or P2P anomalies in general) 
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346 2021-09-01T23:01:53  <sipa> b10c: great
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349 2021-09-01T23:11:11  <lightlike> b10c: did you see https://www.dsn.kastel.kit.edu/bitcoin/index.html by the authors of the paper? the "Churn" graph there (I think their nodes try to connect to every node they get an addr for) went into the roof when the addr spam started
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