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 44 2021-09-24T01:25:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #23079: test: use MiniWallet for p2p_filter.py (master...202109-test-use_MiniWallet_for_p2p_filter) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23079
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 47 2021-09-24T01:28:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #23080: test: check abandoned tx in listsinceblock (master...2021-09-improv-test-listsinceblock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23080
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 51 2021-09-24T01:31:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] stevebanik opened pull request #23081: Updated for better readability (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23081
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 66 2021-09-24T02:04:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #23081: Updated for better readability (master...patch-2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23081
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126 2021-09-24T04:37:09  <bitcoin-git> [gui] jarolrod opened pull request #430: Improvements to the open up transaction in third-party link action (master...3party-tx-links-cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/430
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199 2021-09-24T07:42:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #23082: build: improve gexauxval() detection, remove getauxval() weak linking (master...remove_weak_auxval) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23082
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235 2021-09-24T08:59:55  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23083: rpc: Fail to return undocumented or misdocumented JSON (master...2108-docRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23083
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247 2021-09-24T09:29:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #23083: rpc: Fail to return undocumented or misdocumented JSON (master...2108-docRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23083
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250 2021-09-24T09:30:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #23083: rpc: Fail to return undocumented or misdocumented JSON (master...2108-docRpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23083
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284 2021-09-24T10:43:22  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #23084: test: assert on result instead of log in asmap-addrman test (master...asmap-addrman-test-assert-on-result-instead-of-log) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23084
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294 2021-09-24T11:10:11  <laanwj> can someone who uses signet please test #23021 and sign off on it; Sjors' old node is no longer active so it's fairly important to replace it
295 2021-09-24T11:10:12  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23021 | net: switch to signet DNS seed by Sjors · Pull Request #23021 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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307 2021-09-24T11:42:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors closed pull request #23000: net: update signet seeds (master...2021/09/signet-seed) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23000
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317 2021-09-24T12:07:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b7e360081506...8e9801bfc4ac
318 2021-09-24T12:07:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa086ef MarcoFalke: test: Remove unused ~TestChain100Setup
319 2021-09-24T12:07:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faa4698 MarcoFalke: test: Remove version argument from build_next_block in p2p_segwit test
320 2021-09-24T12:07:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fadb2ef MarcoFalke: test: Add extra_args argument to TestChain100Setup constructor
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323 2021-09-24T12:07:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #22818: test: Activate all regtest softforks at height 1, unless overridden (master...2108-regtestSoft) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22818
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344 2021-09-24T12:52:25  <darosior> Lol  #23074 uncovered another functional test flakiness.. feature_taproot's os.killlpg() doesn't exist on Windows and might make Win CI fail
345 2021-09-24T12:52:26  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23074 | Package-aware fee estimation by darosior · Pull Request #23074 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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347 2021-09-24T12:55:13  <darosior> oO it's in test_runner.py actually
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352 2021-09-24T13:08:07  <darosior> Ok, opened an issue: wanted to open a quick PR but it seems non trivial https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23085
353 2021-09-24T13:08:34  <darosior> Or at least less trivial than i though, because Windows stuff
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355 2021-09-24T13:09:08  <darosior> Can someone (again) re-kick CI on #23074 please?
356 2021-09-24T13:09:10  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23074 | Package-aware fee estimation by darosior · Pull Request #23074 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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363 2021-09-24T13:23:46  <jonatack> darosior: I think the task will auto-restart (in ~35 minutes)
364 2021-09-24T13:24:05  <darosior> Oh, neat
365 2021-09-24T13:25:18  <jonatack> in any case, didn't see the "re-run" button available yet, maybe it has to fail n times first
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369 2021-09-24T13:33:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23086: test: Add -testactivationheight tests to rpc_blockchain (master...2109-testActH) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23086
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420 2021-09-24T15:10:14  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8e9801bfc4ac...01b5cfb9511a
421 2021-09-24T15:10:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faca688 MarcoFalke: test: Add MiniWallet get_descriptor function
422 2021-09-24T15:10:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa32cb2 MarcoFalke: test: Use MiniWallet in mempool_persist
423 2021-09-24T15:10:14  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fafb7b7 MarcoFalke: test: pep8
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426 2021-09-24T15:10:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #23047: test: Use MiniWallet in mempool_persist (master...2109-testMempool) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23047
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469 2021-09-24T16:39:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 10 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/01b5cfb9511a...03cb2b480bd5
470 2021-09-24T16:39:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eed99cf Martin Ankerl: bench: update nanobench from 4.3.4 to 4.3.6
471 2021-09-24T16:39:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 468b232 Martin Ankerl: bench: remove unnecessary & incorrect  multiplication in MuHashDiv
472 2021-09-24T16:39:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 153e686 Martin Ankerl: bench: change AddrManGood to AddrManAddThenGood
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475 2021-09-24T16:39:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #23025: bench: update nanobench add `-min_time` (master...2021-09-update-nanobench) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23025
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521 2021-09-24T18:19:27  <prayank> vasild: I read your response in the CJDNS PR. Agree with almost everything. It makes sense. However wanted to know your thoughts on GNUnet.
522 2021-09-24T18:19:43  <prayank> My opinion: 1. Software works as expected 2. Website looks good in terms of documentation, honesty, philosophy etc.
523 2021-09-24T18:19:52  <prayank> 3. Martin(one of the maintainers) in this presentation: https://git.gnunet.org/gnunet-videos-2020.git/plain/FOSDEM20/dip_gnunet.webm had explained things nicely. I like lot of things he mentioned in video. 4. Still not ready for Bitcoin Core mainnet.
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528 2021-09-24T18:29:58  *** promag <promag!~promag@188.250.84.129> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
529 2021-09-24T18:34:13  <promag> the user korbanr seems to be spamming
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532 2021-09-24T18:41:18  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
533 2021-09-24T18:41:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto reopened pull request #17786: refactor: Nuke policy/fees->mempool circular dependencies (master...20191221-mempool-circ-dep) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17786
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542 2021-09-24T18:53:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #23089: ci: Increase the dynamic port range to the maximum on native Windows (master...210924-portrange) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23089
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547 2021-09-24T19:00:29  <meshcollider> #startmeeting
548 2021-09-24T19:00:30  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Sep 24 19:00:29 2021 UTC.  The chair is meshcollider. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
549 2021-09-24T19:00:30  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
550 2021-09-24T19:00:34  <meshcollider> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 aj amiti ariard bluematt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag
551 2021-09-24T19:00:34  <meshcollider> provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild wumpus
552 2021-09-24T19:00:44  <achow101> hi
553 2021-09-24T19:00:49  <michaelfolkson> hi
554 2021-09-24T19:01:32  <sipa> hi
555 2021-09-24T19:01:36  <meshcollider> I don't think there are any proposed topics, last minute proposals?
556 2021-09-24T19:02:21  <michaelfolkson> I'll ask a couple of questions on achow101's recent Twitch streams/PRs that he's been working on if nothing else
557 2021-09-24T19:03:28  <meshcollider> After another user earlier this week asking about upgrading an old wallet and why they're still only getting legacy addresses, I was wondering if we should add an easier way to fully flush the keypool after an upgrade
558 2021-09-24T19:04:14  <meshcollider> achow101: what's the reason we keep using the old pre-HD keypool after upgrade until it has run out? Why not just use the new HD keys immediately?
559 2021-09-24T19:04:23  <achow101> it wouldn't be particularly hard to add a function like "newkeypool"
560 2021-09-24T19:05:10  <meshcollider> Yeah it'd be super easy, could overload keypoolrefill too, but I wanted to discuss the rationale first
561 2021-09-24T19:05:19  <sipa> fwiw, when upgrading from unencrypted to encypted wallet, this already happens
562 2021-09-24T19:05:24  <sipa> so i'm sure that code exists
563 2021-09-24T19:05:45  <achow101> meshcollider: I don't remember, would have to check the original PR
564 2021-09-24T19:06:07  <achow101> sipa: there's a convenient NewKeypool() function :)
565 2021-09-24T19:07:34  <prayank> I had one question
566 2021-09-24T19:07:38  <meshcollider> Hmm was it #12560
567 2021-09-24T19:07:41  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/12560 | [wallet] Upgrade path for non-HD wallets to HD by achow101 · Pull Request #12560 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
568 2021-09-24T19:08:44  <achow101> I think so
569 2021-09-24T19:10:16  <meshcollider> Strange, the OP says "When it is used for such an upgrade, the keypool will be regenerated."
570 2021-09-24T19:10:26  <meshcollider> So you must have changed it for some reason through the reviews
571 2021-09-24T19:10:34  <achow101> meshcollider: I remember now. It's because -upgradewallet would do the wallet before syncing
572 2021-09-24T19:11:08  <achow101> I think it had something to do with the wallet being upgraded and then losing coins due to sync?
573 2021-09-24T19:11:16  <achow101> maybe not
574 2021-09-24T19:11:32  <achow101> I'm pretty sure it was implemented that way because of this comment: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/12560#issuecomment-377567454
575 2021-09-24T19:11:49  <meshcollider> Interesting
576 2021-09-24T19:12:11  <meshcollider> So I feel like we should change it now to flush the keypool on upgrade from non-HD to HD
577 2021-09-24T19:12:37  <meshcollider> Or even after every upgrade?
578 2021-09-24T19:13:21  <achow101> oh, I think part of it was that it was basically impossible to show a warning to users that they had to make a new backup after -upgradewallet
579 2021-09-24T19:13:26  <achow101> but that's no longer relevant with the upgradewallet RPC
580 2021-09-24T19:13:51  <achow101> I think it would be reasonable to have upgradewallet flush after upgrading to HD
581 2021-09-24T19:13:54  <meshcollider> Cool, I'll open a PR after the meeting then
582 2021-09-24T19:14:00  <achow101> as well as a dedicated flush keypool RPC
583 2021-09-24T19:14:12  <meshcollider> prayank: Sure, what was your question :)
584 2021-09-24T19:14:17  <prayank> I wanted to start working on things explained in this issue and create a draft PR but don't want to waste time and end up with NACKs in few minutes. So what are your thoughts on it?
585 2021-09-24T19:14:21  <prayank> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22424
586 2021-09-24T19:15:23  <achow101> can you briefly explain the idea?
587 2021-09-24T19:15:32  <prayank> Yes
588 2021-09-24T19:15:42  <michaelfolkson> Dirty coins are dumped into a subwallet and can't be spent in the original wallet?
589 2021-09-24T19:15:54  <prayank> Right
590 2021-09-24T19:16:14  <prayank> This was suggested in a discussion by harding
591 2021-09-24T19:16:19  <prayank> Let me find the link
592 2021-09-24T19:16:35  <meshcollider> Its on the issue, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22018#issuecomment-850803134
593 2021-09-24T19:17:08  <michaelfolkson> Always upsides and downsides but one downside appears to be reduction in the success rate of BnB
594 2021-09-24T19:17:17  <michaelfolkson> Less UTXOs at its disposal
595 2021-09-24T19:18:16  <prayank> Let me explain with one example
596 2021-09-24T19:18:27  <achow101> I would generally avoid automatically creating new wallet files when certain behavior occurs
597 2021-09-24T19:19:03  <achow101> a "sub wallet" should just be an internal structure
598 2021-09-24T19:19:18  <prayank> Alice creates a new address. Bob sends multiple times to it. Becomes dirty. Detected by Core and moved to New wallet with keys and all meta data.
599 2021-09-24T19:20:03  <michaelfolkson> achow101: Can a subwallet with UTXOs that can't be spent by the original wallet fit into that "internal structure"? I'm guessing not
600 2021-09-24T19:20:22  <michaelfolkson> The divide is pretty clear
601 2021-09-24T19:20:26  <achow101> michaelfolkson: it's a program, you can make anything work :)
602 2021-09-24T19:20:50  <michaelfolkson> Ha ok, I don't know what you mean by an internal structure then ;)
603 2021-09-24T19:21:27  <prayank> michaelfolkson: Maybe not show user a new wallet is created
604 2021-09-24T19:21:47  <achow101> with meshcollider's persistent utxo locks, it seems like it would be fairly easy to detect these "dirty utxos" and apply a utxo lock on them
605 2021-09-24T19:22:26  <meshcollider> Doesn't avoid_reuse basically do that anyway
606 2021-09-24T19:22:34  <achow101> later users can go in, manually unlock those utxos, and do whatever with them. I think that approximately achieves what #22424 describes
607 2021-09-24T19:22:34  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22424 | Sub wallet for dirty coins · Issue #22424 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
608 2021-09-24T19:23:11  <meshcollider> Could possibly make it easier to do so with an RPC "consolidatedirty" or something
609 2021-09-24T19:23:19  <michaelfolkson> meshcollider: Isn't avoid_reuse avoidance rather than making it impossible?
610 2021-09-24T19:23:59  <achow101> but in general, I don't particularly like the idea of outright disabling users from spending certain UTXOs just because they are reused
611 2021-09-24T19:24:06  <achow101> it is trivial to lock people out of funds by dust spam
612 2021-09-24T19:24:13  <achow101> s/is/becomes
613 2021-09-24T19:24:33  <michaelfolkson> To me avoidance seems fine. Literally dumping the private key so that the original wallet can't spend a UTXO in any circumstances seems overkill
614 2021-09-24T19:24:37  <prayank> meshcollider: avoid_reuse has issues
615 2021-09-24T19:25:21  <prayank> achow101: Won't be default. Only for user who want this level of privacy can use it.
616 2021-09-24T19:25:34  <achow101> prayank: perhaps improve avoid_reuse rather than throwing it out?
617 2021-09-24T19:26:15  <michaelfolkson> prayank: What are the issues?
618 2021-09-24T19:26:20  <meshcollider> I like achow101's suggestion of simply locking the UTXOs, but I think then there should be some way to distinguish these types of UTXO for when you do want to consolidate (e.g. red on GUI as suggested)
619 2021-09-24T19:26:40  <prayank> achow101: well 2 issues that exist are 1. Unable to spend unconfirmed UTXO 2. OUTPUT_GROUP_MAX_ENTRIES = 100 and I was told both will get NACKs if I try to fix them
620 2021-09-24T19:26:57  <achow101> meshcollider: we could add a "lock reason"
621 2021-09-24T19:27:28  <achow101> prayank: that's avoidpartialspends, not avoid_reuse
622 2021-09-24T19:28:31  <achow101> there is a subtle difference IIRC
623 2021-09-24T19:28:32  <prayank> Okay they looked similar things maybe I misunderstood. avoid_reuse is a just a flag right in wallet?
624 2021-09-24T19:28:42  <meshcollider> Yes
625 2021-09-24T19:28:54  <meshcollider> WALLET_FLAG_AVOID_REUSE
626 2021-09-24T19:30:14  <jonatack> hi
627 2021-09-24T19:30:28  <achow101> avoid_reuse will cause coin selection to exclude UTXOs that have already been spent previously
628 2021-09-24T19:30:41  <prayank> jonatack: any opinion on this?
629 2021-09-24T19:31:07  <jonatack> prayank: maybe have a look at src/wallet-init.cpp:47 regarding avoidpartialspends, and grep for it in the codebase
630 2021-09-24T19:31:36  <achow101> so it seems like having a wallet with avoid_reuse already solves the problem?
631 2021-09-24T19:31:45  <meshcollider> I think a consolidatedirty RPC could still be useful
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633 2021-09-24T19:32:13  <meshcollider> No actually that would basically be impossible to do well
634 2021-09-24T19:32:51  <meshcollider> Is there an easy way to list the dirty UTXOs being avoided by avoid_reuse?
635 2021-09-24T19:33:21  <achow101> meshcollider: listunspent has a "reused" value
636 2021-09-24T19:34:01  <meshcollider> True, okay, in that case it should still be possible to manually run them through a mixer or something if desired
637 2021-09-24T19:34:38  <achow101> in any case, I think prayank needs to have a look at avoid_reuse in combination with avoidpartialspends first
638 2021-09-24T19:34:57  <achow101> before we have any further discussions with changes to make
639 2021-09-24T19:35:05  <prayank> Okay I will check these things in detail
640 2021-09-24T19:35:20  <prayank> Thanks everyone
641 2021-09-24T19:35:23  <meshcollider> prayank: thanks! Glad you have some good ideas for this though :)
642 2021-09-24T19:35:30  <meshcollider> Any other topics?
643 2021-09-24T19:35:41  <michaelfolkson> A couple of quick ones
644 2021-09-24T19:36:02  <meshcollider> michaelfolkson: Go ahead
645 2021-09-24T19:36:18  <michaelfolkson> One, any way to speed up the Proposed Timeline for Legacy Wallet and BDB removal?
646 2021-09-24T19:36:30  <jonatack> don't worry prayank, it takes time, gathering and slowly accumulating context helps
647 2021-09-24T19:36:37  <michaelfolkson> 27.0 and 2024 seems long
648 2021-09-24T19:36:46  <michaelfolkson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20160
649 2021-09-24T19:37:04  <michaelfolkson> Given there is migration code
650 2021-09-24T19:37:19  <achow101> maybe, but it's intentionally slow and drawn out
651 2021-09-24T19:37:32  <michaelfolkson> I just wonder if it is too drawn out :)
652 2021-09-24T19:37:43  <achow101> the point is to ease the transition, especially since the migration might not migrate everything
653 2021-09-24T19:37:45  <prayank> jonatack: True :)
654 2021-09-24T19:38:02  <achow101> (it is difficult to replicate everything that ismine would match on)
655 2021-09-24T19:38:12  <michaelfolkson> achow101: Oh the migration might not... ok I didn't consider that
656 2021-09-24T19:38:23  <michaelfolkson> Ok that is a reason for being extra cautious
657 2021-09-24T19:38:47  <meshcollider> michaelfolkson: why would you like it brought forward? Just code legacy code maintaince reasons?
658 2021-09-24T19:39:04  <achow101> the idea is that there will be time to migrate while all of the legacy wallet stuff is still there so that if there are any issues, a backup can be used and the user could just make a new descriptor wallet and move coins
659 2021-09-24T19:39:11  <sipa> also, we regularly see people on stackexchange trying to recover funds from wallet.dat files from 2013 or older
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661 2021-09-24T19:39:33  <achow101> also, 2024 is not as far away as you think it is :p
662 2021-09-24T19:39:47  <michaelfolkson> Ok fair enough, leave as is
663 2021-09-24T19:39:48  <sipa> it's closer to today than segwit's activation
664 2021-09-24T19:39:50  <meshcollider> Scary thought
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666 2021-09-24T19:40:22  <michaelfolkson> And second question, what was the point of the coin selection simulations? Just see how often the different algorithms were used?
667 2021-09-24T19:40:53  <achow101> the coin selection simulations are to compare how the algorithms perform
668 2021-09-24T19:41:18  <achow101> with perform being somewhat subjective hence all of the data output by the simulation
669 2021-09-24T19:41:43  <michaelfolkson> To check that the preference for BnB makes sense? And check that Knapsack and SRD are equal second preference?
670 2021-09-24T19:42:19  <michaelfolkson> The conclusion was SRD wasn't quite as good as we thought but not materially enough to change that preference ordering?
671 2021-09-24T19:42:38  <achow101> not really check anything specific
672 2021-09-24T19:42:52  <meshcollider> There is no preferred order after the new waste metric approach is there
673 2021-09-24T19:42:55  <achow101> but moreso see what the effects are in general, e.g. how the utxo set is affected, how fees are affected, etc.
674 2021-09-24T19:43:01  <michaelfolkson> I guess if SRD became third preference it would never get used. Knapsack never fails right?
675 2021-09-24T19:43:12  <achow101> with the waste metric, there's no explicit preference
676 2021-09-24T19:43:16  <sipa> don't forget that these algorithms affect eachother
677 2021-09-24T19:43:31  <sipa> introducing one means your wallet's UTXO composition changes
678 2021-09-24T19:43:38  <sipa> which may affect the behavior of the other algorithms
679 2021-09-24T19:43:56  <michaelfolkson> Hmm ok interesting
680 2021-09-24T19:44:23  <achow101> the point of the simulations is to compare the different strategies we could use and see how they behave with a common dataset and common metrics
681 2021-09-24T19:44:32  <achow101> and then somewhat try to rationalize why we see certain behaviors
682 2021-09-24T19:44:53  <michaelfolkson> Ok cool, makes sense
683 2021-09-24T19:44:59  <michaelfolkson> Ok I'm done, thanks
684 2021-09-24T19:45:21  <achow101> I have some old gists with other simulation results from a variety of combinations of BnB + knpsack and other things that were proposed in the past
685 2021-09-24T19:45:41  <achow101> with some things like different min change targets, different feerates, etc.
686 2021-09-24T19:46:06  <michaelfolkson> I knew it wasn't pointless :) Just didn't know what the major objective(s) was
687 2021-09-24T19:46:23  <meshcollider> Just briefly, re: #23065, do people think all unlocks should remove both persistent and non-persistent locks, or should it be possible to temporarily unlock a persistent lock
688 2021-09-24T19:46:25  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23065 | Allow UTXO locks to be written to wallet DB by meshcollider · Pull Request #23065 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
689 2021-09-24T19:46:57  <achow101> I think it should remove both
690 2021-09-24T19:47:27  <meshcollider> Ok
691 2021-09-24T19:47:47  <meshcollider> That's all then, no more topics?
692 2021-09-24T19:48:17  <achow101> just a review beg for #17526
693 2021-09-24T19:48:19  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17526 | Add Single Random Draw as an additional coin selection algorithm by achow101 · Pull Request #17526 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
694 2021-09-24T19:48:35  <meshcollider> Topical :)
695 2021-09-24T19:48:37  <meshcollider> #endmeeting
696 2021-09-24T19:48:38  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
697 2021-09-24T19:48:38  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Sep 24 19:48:37 2021 UTC.
698 2021-09-24T19:48:38  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-09-24-19.00.moin.txt
699 2021-09-24T19:49:43  <michaelfolkson> What's the waste metric PR?
700 2021-09-24T19:50:07  <michaelfolkson> Thanks meshcollider achow101 et al
701 2021-09-24T19:50:11  <achow101> #22009
702 2021-09-24T19:50:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22009 | wallet: Decide which coin selection solution to use based on waste metric by achow101 · Pull Request #22009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
703 2021-09-24T19:51:11  <michaelfolkson> Ok I don't understand how there can be no preference but I guess I need to understand #22009
704 2021-09-24T19:51:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22009 | wallet: Decide which coin selection solution to use based on waste metric by achow101 · Pull Request #22009 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
705 2021-09-24T19:51:37  <meshcollider> michaelfolkson: it just tries all picks the "best"
706 2021-09-24T19:52:18  <meshcollider> "best" in this case is defined as the lowest waste
707 2021-09-24T19:53:12  <michaelfolkson> Ok, BnB was only being used 20 percent of the time from the simulations (presumably that was before the waste metric). Would be much less after the waste metric
708 2021-09-24T19:53:33  <prayank> meshcollider: Thanks for working on this PR to add persistence. I will have few beers the day it gets merged to celebrate we improved privacy. Although small change but things like this can surely help.
709 2021-09-24T19:53:51  <sipa> prayank: i really don't understand what reuse persistance has to do with privacy
710 2021-09-24T19:54:06  <sipa> either you need persistence, or you don't
711 2021-09-24T19:54:17  <sipa> if you do, you're out of luck without it; if you don't, it has no effect
712 2021-09-24T19:54:19  <prayank> sipa: lockunspent persistence
713 2021-09-24T19:54:27  <sipa> sorry, that's what i meant
714 2021-09-24T19:54:44  <sipa> i see you bringing this up in various places as a major win for privacy, and i don't understand it :)
715 2021-09-24T19:54:49  <sipa> to be it's just missing functionality being fixed
716 2021-09-24T19:54:52  <sipa> *to me
717 2021-09-24T19:54:59  <sipa> s/fixed/added/
718 2021-09-24T19:55:28  <prayank> Right now it makes locks useless. So privacy is improved with the change.
719 2021-09-24T19:55:52  <sipa> well, only for people (a) that want to use locks and (b) can't because they're not persistent
720 2021-09-24T19:56:11  <sipa> is there a particular use case you have in mind?
721 2021-09-24T19:56:22  <prayank> Yes. Let me explain.
722 2021-09-24T19:56:52  <shiza> Is that to prevent forced reuse attack, I'm starting to understand your motivation.
723 2021-09-24T19:57:06  <shiza> If* is that to...
724 2021-09-24T19:57:23  <prayank> A user can lock 1 UTXO associated with some transaction to avoid using it. After few days user relaunches Bitcoin Core, forgets about lock being removed, sends some bitcoin to Binance in which this UTXO is used. Binance asks for source of funds etc.
725 2021-09-24T19:57:47  <sipa> ok, but why would they lock anything?
726 2021-09-24T19:58:00  <prayank> To keep things separate
727 2021-09-24T19:58:10  <sipa> use separate wallets if you want to keep things separate
728 2021-09-24T19:58:18  <prayank> I don't want to use same coins for all type of transactions
729 2021-09-24T19:58:39  <sipa> perhaps, but i expect you're not a representative user
730 2021-09-24T19:58:40  <promag> ^ thats what I suggested in the past
731 2021-09-24T19:58:46  <prayank> That's a workaround
732 2021-09-24T19:59:41  <sipa> it's not like suddenly everyone is going to start micromanaging their utxo pool like that
733 2021-09-24T19:59:59  <promag> separate it's better no? it won't spend from multiple wallets and you don't have to remember to lock
734 2021-09-24T20:00:01  <prayank> They already do in other wallets.
735 2021-09-24T20:00:04  <michaelfolkson> Do you lock UTXOs prayank?
736 2021-09-24T20:00:08  <prayank> Yes
737 2021-09-24T20:00:57  <prayank> Even new wallets like sparrow has better options
738 2021-09-24T20:01:12  <michaelfolkson> So it is solving a use case for you as a user
739 2021-09-24T20:02:13  <prayank> It's fixing a problem which exists since 2012 because maybe all users who care about privacy either started using other wallets or figured out workarounds
740 2021-09-24T20:03:29  <promag> I had a case where unspents were locked for a short period before actually sending the spending tx, and we wanted it to be resilient to daemon restart
741 2021-09-24T20:04:04  <promag> for that reason we had to store locks externally
742 2021-09-24T20:04:13  <sipa> prayank: to me the solution was having multiwallet support
743 2021-09-24T20:05:34  <prayank> Anyway I am happy and this change motivated me.
744 2021-09-24T20:05:34  <promag> sipa: one case I think makes sense is when you re-receive on an address and don't want to use that utxo
745 2021-09-24T20:06:13  <achow101> promag: but avoid_reuse deals with that problem
746 2021-09-24T20:06:49  <promag> havent seen that one in detail - does it avoid entirely?
747 2021-09-24T20:07:03  <michaelfolkson> prayank: Yeah seems good. I'm not always convinced by some of your plugging privacy leak suggestions but this seems convincing :)
748 2021-09-24T20:07:20  <achow101> promag: yes
749 2021-09-24T20:08:14  <achow101> sipa: perhaps some people want to have UTXO separation but also one place to see their full balance?
750 2021-09-24T20:09:11  <achow101> there's also possibly something like grouping UTXOs, but they can remove between groups
751 2021-09-24T20:09:21  <achow101> s/remove/move
752 2021-09-24T20:09:52  <promag> the gui/cli can sum balances from loaded wallets
753 2021-09-24T20:11:02  <achow101> promag: where in the gui?
754 2021-09-24T20:11:24  <promag> somewhere ^^
755 2021-09-24T20:11:54  <jonatack> for -getinfo someone could pick up #19092
756 2021-09-24T20:11:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19092 | cli: display multiwallet total balance in -getinfo by jonatack · Pull Request #19092 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
757 2021-09-24T20:12:43  <promag> personally I dont see a reason/case to have some locks persistent and others not
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759 2021-09-24T20:13:28  <achow101> I think non-persistent locks have some use for fundrawtx
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761 2021-09-24T20:13:36  <promag> how so?
762 2021-09-24T20:14:06  <achow101> e.g. funding multiple txs at the same time without them conflicting with each other
763 2021-09-24T20:14:13  <promag> fundraw lock=true ... (abort) ... unloadwallet -> no locks in the wallet?
764 2021-09-24T20:14:43  <achow101> yeah maybe not
765 2021-09-24T20:14:54  <promag> achow101: how does persistent interfere with that?
766 2021-09-24T20:15:33  <promag> I think laanwj wants to avoid behavior changes - but I'd be surprise if people rely on the current behavior
767 2021-09-24T20:15:39  <promag> *surprised
768 2021-09-24T20:15:49  <achow101> indeed
769 2021-09-24T20:17:03  <promag> next thing is people wanting to store a "reason" in the lock
770 2021-09-24T20:17:31  <achow101> I think that's completely reasonable
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778 2021-09-24T20:38:36  <prayank> shiza: Right. One of the goal.
779 2021-09-24T20:42:05  *** promag <promag!~promag@188.250.84.129> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
780 2021-09-24T20:42:24  * shiza approves
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