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  4 2021-10-03T00:02:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Iceymann18777 opened pull request #23163: Create CNAME (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23163
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  7 2021-10-03T00:03:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #23163: Create CNAME (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23163
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 12 2021-10-03T00:09:09  <harding> achow101: awesome, thanks!
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 99 2021-10-03T03:23:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/35a31d5f7e9c...446b70669645
100 2021-10-03T03:23:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fad5a18 MarcoFalke: doc: Combine 23.0 release notes
101 2021-10-03T03:23:20  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 446b706 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23151: doc: Combine 23.0 release notes
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104 2021-10-03T03:23:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #23151: doc: Combine 23.0 release notes (master...2110-docRel) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23151
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121 2021-10-03T03:54:24  <yanmaani> In #10609, it says "getrawtransaction currently works with pruned nodes as long as the transaction has at least one unspent output. I believe this functionality is deprecated though."
122 2021-10-03T03:54:25  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10609 | Feature request: pruned chain and getrawtransaction · Issue #10609 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
123 2021-10-03T03:54:32  <yanmaani> Is this still the case?
124 2021-10-03T03:55:39  <yanmaani> Also, would it be OK to send in a PR that relied on this behaviour and, I suppose, un-deprecated it? Specifically for adding support for non-wallet inputs into fundrawtransaction, which is explicitly marked TODO.
125 2021-10-03T03:56:22  <sipa> i don't see what those have to do with each other
126 2021-10-03T03:56:34  <sipa> why does fundrawtransaction need to be able to look up a TX?
127 2021-10-03T03:58:12  <yanmaani> sipa: Because it has to know the size needed to spend an input.
128 2021-10-03T03:58:32  <yanmaani> If it's a wallet TX, this is fine. If it's a full TX, this is fine. But if it has just the vout, then it has to look up the full TX.
129 2021-10-03T03:58:48  <sipa> i don't understand
130 2021-10-03T03:58:57  <yanmaani> And the database will only have vout -> block. This means it wouldn't work on pruned.
131 2021-10-03T03:59:06  <sipa> why does the size of the TX that created a UTXO matter?
132 2021-10-03T03:59:07  <yanmaani> If I call FRT with a non-wallet input, it will currently error.
133 2021-10-03T03:59:21  <yanmaani> sipa: not the size, but the size to spend it.
134 2021-10-03T03:59:47  <sipa> that's the transaction you're constructing; nothing needs to be looked up...
135 2021-10-03T04:00:01  <yanmaani> sipa: if it's a non-wallet input, I don't think I have that info?
136 2021-10-03T04:00:26  <sipa> well maybe be a bit more concrete... what are you trying to do?
137 2021-10-03T04:00:39  <sipa> how are you going to instruct fundrawtransaction to include a non-wallet TX?
138 2021-10-03T04:00:45  <yanmaani> sipa: add support for non-wallet inputs in fundrawtransaction
139 2021-10-03T04:00:53  <yanmaani> by passing in a transaction that contains a non-wallet input
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142 2021-10-03T04:01:10  <yanmaani> something that I can do right now, but will unconditionally give "insufficient funds" error.
143 2021-10-03T04:01:11  <sipa> i'm rather confused
144 2021-10-03T04:01:37  <sipa> you can't pass in a transaction, you need to somehow make it find a UTXO to spend
145 2021-10-03T04:01:45  <sipa> the simplest way would be giving txid:vout
146 2021-10-03T04:01:57  <sipa> or giving it a UTXO directly, even
147 2021-10-03T04:01:59  <yanmaani> sipa: fundrawtransaction takes a transaction passed in.
148 2021-10-03T04:02:29  <sipa> oh, i see
149 2021-10-03T04:02:37  <yanmaani> If some of these transactions are not ours, it should still be able to fund it. E.g. transaction with 1btc in (from non-wallet), 2btc out, it should be able to add 0.999 or whatever.
150 2021-10-03T04:02:47  <meshcollider> yanmaani: you might be interested in  #17211
151 2021-10-03T04:02:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17211 | Allow fundrawtransaction and walletcreatefundedpsbt to take external inputs by achow101 · Pull Request #17211 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
152 2021-10-03T04:02:55  <yanmaani> so see line 462 on src/wallet/spend.cpp
153 2021-10-03T04:03:06  <sipa> i still don't see what this has to do with looking up transactions though
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155 2021-10-03T04:03:43  <meshcollider> I think 17211 probably addresses what you're trying to do
156 2021-10-03T04:04:26  <yanmaani> meshcollider: yeah, I think so too. Do you know if it works if I send in an already-signed input?
157 2021-10-03T04:04:44  <yanmaani> e.g. 1btc external input, with signature, and then 2btc out. Or would I need to take the signture in and out?
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159 2021-10-03T04:05:11  <sipa> if you add extra inputs or outputs (which is what FRT does), it'll invalidate any signatures that are already there
160 2021-10-03T04:05:59  <achow101> yanmaani: including non-wallet inputs in fundrawtransaction needs more than just being able to look up the transcation. In fact, looking up the transaction is completely unnecessary - the UTXO set is enough. The problem with non-wallet inputs is that data specific to the owning wallet is missing. This data is things like scripts and pubkeys. These cannot be retrieved from previous transactions. 17211 solves that by allowing users to provide
161 2021-10-03T04:05:59  <achow101> that data.
162 2021-10-03T04:06:47  <yanmaani> sipa: yes, but still hopefully use them for calc?
163 2021-10-03T04:07:05  <achow101> yanmaani: you can't pass in scriptSigs or scriptWitnesses
164 2021-10-03T04:07:31  <achow101> they will be clobbered
165 2021-10-03T04:08:11  <yanmaani> achow101: Oh, so it can't use them for fee calc?
166 2021-10-03T04:08:43  <yanmaani> like, if I give it a half-signed tx, you'd think it could figure out that "hmm, it uses 89 bytes to spend it here, maybe it costs 89 bytes to spend??"
167 2021-10-03T04:08:52  <yanmaani> (and then discard that siggy anyway, but still use the information in it)
168 2021-10-03T04:08:53  <achow101> they will be ignored
169 2021-10-03T04:08:56  <achow101> entirely
170 2021-10-03T04:09:03  <yanmaani> mmm, even in 17211?
171 2021-10-03T04:09:05  <achow101> yes
172 2021-10-03T04:09:13  <yanmaani> still works tho, i suppose, just have to pass in separately.
173 2021-10-03T04:09:28  <achow101> with variable signatures sizes, there is no guarantee that any signatures will have the same size afterwards
174 2021-10-03T04:09:42  <yanmaani> variable signature sizes?
175 2021-10-03T04:09:48  <achow101> the signature size can vary
176 2021-10-03T04:10:29  <achow101> DER allows signatures to have a variable size. This size will be dependent on all inputs to the signature algorithm, so if any of those change (e.g. the tx changes), then the size will not be known until the signatures is computed
177 2021-10-03T04:11:08  <achow101> (taproot fixes that problem, but at the same time, if all solving data is present, then it will be possible to predict the same size anyways)
178 2021-10-03T04:11:18  <yanmaani> achow101: but what about SIGHASH_SINGLE etc?
179 2021-10-03T04:11:30  <yanmaani> then the inputs will be known in advance
180 2021-10-03T04:11:54  <sipa> SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY signature in theory stay valid when adding inputs
181 2021-10-03T04:12:03  <achow101> fundrawtransaction may still add a change output
182 2021-10-03T04:12:06  <yanmaani> if I have a tx, 1btc in, 2btc out, and I sign "this goes in and 2btc to here" with key A, then add 0.999btc and sign with multiple
183 2021-10-03T04:12:09  <sipa> and SIGHASH_SINGLE/NONE signature stay valid when adding outputs
184 2021-10-03T04:12:17  <yanmaani> achow101: yeah, but that won't have any bearing on the existing sigs.
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186 2021-10-03T04:12:43  <achow101> yanmaani: depending on your sighash, outputs will have an effect on the message that is signed
187 2021-10-03T04:12:46  <sipa> but fundrawtransaction will also insert change output in a random place if needed, which would break SIGHASH_SINGLE too
188 2021-10-03T04:13:10  <yanmaani> sipa: couldn't it just insert the extra input in the same place?
189 2021-10-03T04:13:12  <achow101> (when I said inputs, I meant "signed messsage", not tx inputs)
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191 2021-10-03T04:13:23  <sipa> yanmaani: it could do lots of things, but doesn't
192 2021-10-03T04:13:27  <yanmaani> achow101: yeah, but if it's a sighash where adding new outputs won't affect anything?
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194 2021-10-03T04:14:03  <yanmaani> sipa: right, but a poor man's (smaller) version of 17211 that only works with already signed inputs with the correct sighash, would not be of interest?
195 2021-10-03T04:14:13  <achow101> non SIGHASH_ALL sighashes are not generally optimized for due to the extra complexity and the fact that few people use them
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198 2021-10-03T04:14:25  <achow101> yanmaani: I would nack it
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200 2021-10-03T04:15:43  <yanmaani> achow101: because it's intrinsically bad or just because 17211 already does it better?
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208 2021-10-03T04:16:46  <achow101> both
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211 2021-10-03T04:18:23  <achow101> as noted above, the size given existing signatures is not guaranteed after the transaction is modified. I think there is exactly one case where the signature would not change and it also requires fundrawtransaction to do a very specific modification
212 2021-10-03T04:19:58  <achow101> because it needs a very specific set of circumstances, such a feature would not be particularly useful, and figuring the exact changes that were made that would allow for the signature to not change would be somewhat complex and difficult to review.
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295 2021-10-03T04:39:04  <yanmaani> achow101: that's a fair point. What about allowing it to fund regardless, but accepting that users are obliged to manually specify change position etc if they use this feature?
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297 2021-10-03T04:39:17  <yanmaani> and then just saying that if users put in the wrong params, they break the signature
298 2021-10-03T04:39:55  <achow101> there's more to it than just the change position
299 2021-10-03T04:40:02  <achow101> inputs are shuffled too
300 2021-10-03T04:40:15  <achow101> so if any inputs are added, they may be added in any position
301 2021-10-03T04:40:27  <yanmaani> isn't there a param to regulate that?
302 2021-10-03T04:41:03  <achow101> no
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304 2021-10-03T04:41:31  <yanmaani> there is "don't add inputs". i mean you could use it like
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306 2021-10-03T04:41:38  <yanmaani> 1) fund
307 2021-10-03T04:41:45  <yanmaani> 2) shuffle inputs back into the right order
308 2021-10-03T04:41:57  <yanmaani> 3) fund again, select "Don't add inputs"
309 2021-10-03T04:42:02  <yanmaani> from the PoV of a caller
310 2021-10-03T04:44:15  <achow101> oh, actually fundtx preserves preset input positions
311 2021-10-03T04:44:39  <yanmaani> so then all that's needed is making sure the change won't destroy anything, in theory?
312 2021-10-03T04:44:53  <yanmaani> like putting it after the concerned outputs
313 2021-10-03T04:45:24  <achow101> no, that's not necessarily safe
314 2021-10-03T04:45:51  <achow101> a sighash_single input with no corresponding output could be clobbered by that, and there's no way around it if a change output must be added
315 2021-10-03T04:46:18  <achow101> e.g. 3 inputs, 2 outputs, with the last being sighash single. if a change output must be added, the sighash will necessarily change because of the way sighash_single works
316 2021-10-03T04:46:25  <achow101> regardless of the position of the change output
317 2021-10-03T04:47:07  <achow101> yanmaani: what are you trying to do that this complexity makes sense to do?
318 2021-10-03T04:47:20  <yanmaani> Wait, a "a sighash_single input with no corresponding output", how is that even valid?
319 2021-10-03T04:47:28  <yanmaani> is it just signing ... nothing?
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321 2021-10-03T04:47:36  <achow101> it signs the number "1" (expanded to 256 bits)
322 2021-10-03T04:47:55  <yanmaani> oh, and is that valid?
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324 2021-10-03T04:48:04  <yanmaani> if so, you would just have to not allow sighash_single
325 2021-10-03T04:48:06  <achow101> yes, it's kind of a bug
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328 2021-10-03T04:49:11  <achow101> I don't think going through the effort to implement this is any less than just trying to get 17211 through
329 2021-10-03T04:49:13  <yanmaani> or, you could, but error if you have to add new outputs.
330 2021-10-03T04:49:35  <yanmaani> yeah, at that point you're not really dealing with a "smaller, easier" version really
331 2021-10-03T04:49:38  <yanmaani> just a shittier one :P
332 2021-10-03T04:50:21  <achow101> exactly
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372 2021-10-03T06:25:58  <meshcollider> Yeah let's try and get 17211 in soon
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462 2021-10-03T09:49:53  <yanmaani> how do you add comments on the code on github? it doesn't seem to let me
463 2021-10-03T09:50:06  <yanmaani> am I just stupid or is it locked down somehow?
464 2021-10-03T09:51:08  <hebasto> yanmaani: in the "Files changed" tab select line(s) you want to comment first
465 2021-10-03T09:51:49  <yanmaani> hebasto: I click the line and it goes yellow, is there something more I need to do?
466 2021-10-03T09:52:02  <yanmaani> usually there's two sets of plus signs
467 2021-10-03T09:53:29  <hebasto> comments are available for lines that actually modified; if it goes yellow then it is not modified
468 2021-10-03T09:54:04  <yanmaani> Wait, so I can't review added lines, just lines that are modified?
469 2021-10-03T09:54:12  <yanmaani> The line is green and has a plus to the left
470 2021-10-03T09:54:35  <yanmaani> huh, just reloading the page fixed it, please forget we ever had this conversation
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584 2021-10-03T14:12:27  <michaelfolkson> prayank: I agree more should be discussed openly even when it is uncomfortable and more time consuming. I definitely feel some are pushing consistently to not have any discussion in public and that makes me uncomfortable
585 2021-10-03T14:13:55  <michaelfolkson> prayank: Having said that I don't think storing up a list of feedback for an individual and drop it when they are proposed as a maintainer isn't the best way to provide feedback
586 2021-10-03T14:14:04  <michaelfolkson> *is the best way
587 2021-10-03T14:14:40  <michaelfolkson> If you don't like something someone has done you should feel free to raise it here or on the mailing list at the time
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590 2021-10-03T14:19:04  <michaelfolkson> I'd like fanquake to engage here with prayank on the specific concerns he's raised. And prayank to provide specific details of the PR numbers etc so he can take a look at them
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594 2021-10-03T14:24:42  <michaelfolkson> Although this is proposed to fight spam it is a significant increase in permissions over the repo. It is a shame GitHub doesn't have more finegrained permissions
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597 2021-10-03T14:29:16  <michaelfolkson> On the Taproot activation params issue I think it is unfair to pin that responsibility on one maintainer because he merged it. No other maintainer has commented afaik that they disagreed with the merge decision
598 2021-10-03T14:30:57  <michaelfolkson> If another maintainer had commented that they had disagreed with the merge decision then we would be in a different place. But they haven't and so in that sense I think it can be perceived as a maintainer team decision rather than an individual maintainer decision
599 2021-10-03T14:34:25  <michaelfolkson> Anyone is free to disagree with that decision but using that as a reason to not give someone more permissions seems unfair to me
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608 2021-10-03T14:50:03  <darosior> +1 on giving more permissions to fanquake.
609 2021-10-03T14:50:03  <darosior> These accusations on Taproot activation strike me as backed by the belief that maintainers would decide the network rules. Correct me if i'm wrong but code is integrated to the repo after being evaluated on a technical basis, not a political one. The PR was reviewed and acknowledged as technically right by contributors knowledgeable in this area.
610 2021-10-03T14:50:03  <darosior> As such i think this makes any objection to giving a maintainer more permission based on the merge of this PR invalid.
611 2021-10-03T14:50:03  <darosior> Another (pretty confused) objection was raised. I would like to ask the objector to first clarify any *objective* concern they might have and second to explain how the proposed increase in permission would make any concern worse (if there is any valid one in the first place).
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615 2021-10-03T14:57:06  <michaelfolkson> darosior: I wouldn't say "political" but there is definitely a community consensus element to decisions like activation params
616 2021-10-03T14:58:38  <michaelfolkson> Some decisions have technical arguments on both sides. Doesn't mean that that is somehow political and avoiding technical discussion
617 2021-10-03T15:00:18  <michaelfolkson> There is also assessing the ACKs, NACKs on a PR which has a lot of subtlety when deciding on whether or when to merge a PR. Again I wouldn't call that political but you can if you want
618 2021-10-03T15:01:39  <michaelfolkson> For example you are free to disagree with Luke but it would be hard to claim he is not a contributor knowledgeable in the area of soft fork activation
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620 2021-10-03T15:05:17  <michaelfolkson> And for the record I don't have a problem with the activation params merge decision. I thought it was the slightly inferior solution and thought Luke had strong arguments but based on reviews I don't think it was wrong to merge it
621 2021-10-03T15:05:28  <darosior> On your last point: i certainly don't claim this, fwiw. His disapproval of 21686 wasn't based on any technical basis?
622 2021-10-03T15:05:41  <darosior> But i don't want to rehash this again tbf :)
623 2021-10-03T15:06:58  <michaelfolkson> darosior: "His disapproval of 21686 wasn't based on any technical basis?" I think it was more community consensus but then that community consensus was built up initially around a technical solution (BIP 8). And he thought BIP 8 was superior that what was merged
624 2021-10-03T15:07:31  <michaelfolkson> darosior: But yeah rehashing history :)
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630 2021-10-03T15:25:30  <michaelfolkson> I'm also a +1 on fanquake permissions
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651 2021-10-03T16:21:50  <darosior> achow101: in descriptor_tests, DoCheck assumes a descriptor with xpubs has no raw keys https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/446b706696451ae1a66ac416f347d734c5741d7c/src/test/descriptor_tests.cpp#L190-L208 . Descriptors with both are supported, right? Just want to be sure
652 2021-10-03T16:22:15  <achow101> yes
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665 2021-10-03T16:51:47  <jarolrod> fanquake is a very active maintainer for a decent amount of time now. fanquake is almost always the first to get rid of spam issues and comments. I don't understand opposition to allow him to deal with spam users.
666 2021-10-03T16:53:46  <fjahr> +1 for giving required permissions to block spammers to fanquake. I think he is doing great work as a maintainer.
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669 2021-10-03T17:00:55  <TallTim> Slow sunday question - Is Taproot "active" at blockheight 709,632 - I realize its locked in...
670 2021-10-03T17:01:22  <TallTim> Given that we're approx 703,390 now
671 2021-10-03T17:01:55  <sipa> 6 weeks
672 2021-10-03T17:02:01  <TallTim> roger that
673 2021-10-03T17:03:33  <sipa> +- nov 16th
674 2021-10-03T17:04:14  <michaelfolkson> jarolrod: This isn't specific to fanquake but this is a significant increase in permissions due to lack of granularity in GitHub permissions. I don't think there is a problem to have a discussion on concerns people have
675 2021-10-03T17:04:37  <michaelfolkson> If there was a GitHub permission to just deal with spam this would be a no brainer
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739 2021-10-03T19:20:23  <bitcoin-git> [gui] luke-jr opened pull request #444: Qt: Network Watch tool (master...gui_netwatch) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/444
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