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409 2021-11-11T10:35:11  <hebasto> Cirrus CI fails with a "Building AOSP is only supported via ROM-builders organization!" banner which links to https://github.com/ROM-builders -- why our repos are affected?
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429 2021-11-11T12:33:30  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
430 2021-11-11T12:33:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f63bf05e73ea...d217ee25a397
431 2021-11-11T12:33:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 467fe57 Pavel Safronov: test: Correct MyPy typing for subtest decorator
432 2021-11-11T12:33:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d217ee2 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23420: test: Correct MyPy typing for subtest decorat...
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435 2021-11-11T12:33:47  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #23420: test: Correct MyPy typing for subtest decorator (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23420
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440 2021-11-11T13:12:37  <xbxice> hola
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443 2021-11-11T13:28:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d217ee25a397...bc03823e26d1
444 2021-11-11T13:28:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6cac99a Alex Groce: Add a brief overview of fuzzing/Bitcoin Core fuzzing
445 2021-11-11T13:28:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bc03823 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23482: doc: Add a brief overview of fuzzing/Bitcoin ...
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448 2021-11-11T13:29:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23482: doc: Add a brief overview of fuzzing/Bitcoin Core fuzzing (master...patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23482
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596 2021-11-11T16:22:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23486: rpc: Avoid returning P2SH for witness_v1_taproot in decodescript (master...2111-rpcScript) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23486
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619 2021-11-11T18:43:17  <laanwj> hebasto:strange
620 2021-11-11T18:44:23  <laanwj> that's an android thing apparently?!?
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624 2021-11-11T18:54:34  <fjahr> #proposedmeetingtopic Some ASMap questions
625 2021-11-11T18:56:52  <hebasto> laanwj: reported to support, and it is fixed now
626 2021-11-11T18:57:05  <laanwj> hebasto: thanks
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628 2021-11-11T19:00:09  <laanwj> #startmeeting
629 2021-11-11T19:00:09  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 11 19:00:09 2021 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
630 2021-11-11T19:00:09  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
631 2021-11-11T19:00:19  <hebasto> hi
632 2021-11-11T19:00:24  <provoostenator> hi
633 2021-11-11T19:00:28  <fjahr> hi
634 2021-11-11T19:00:37  <michaelfolkson> hi
635 2021-11-11T19:00:45  <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball
636 2021-11-11T19:00:47  <laanwj> morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
637 2021-11-11T19:01:16  <ariard> hi
638 2021-11-11T19:01:26  <larryruane> Hi
639 2021-11-11T19:01:41  <laanwj> one proposed meeting topic for this week: Some ASMap questions (fjahr)
640 2021-11-11T19:02:42  <laanwj> any other topics people want to discuss in the meeting?
641 2021-11-11T19:03:23  <michaelfolkson> Maybe quickly on bitcoincore.org
642 2021-11-11T19:03:24  <laanwj> #topic High priority for review
643 2021-11-11T19:03:24  <core-meetingbot> topic: High priority for review
644 2021-11-11T19:03:32  <sipa> hi
645 2021-11-11T19:03:33  <laanwj> michaelfolkson: ok
646 2021-11-11T19:03:36  <dongcarl> hi
647 2021-11-11T19:04:05  <laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8   currently 11 blockers, 1 chasing concept ACK
648 2021-11-11T19:04:18  <laanwj> anything to add, remove, or that is almost ready for merge?
649 2021-11-11T19:05:26  <sipa> what is the status with #23114 ?
650 2021-11-11T19:05:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23114 | Add minisketch subtree and integrate into build/test by fanquake · Pull Request #23114 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
651 2021-11-11T19:06:01  *** gene <gene!~gene@gateway/tor-sasl/gene> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
652 2021-11-11T19:06:09  <laanwj> sipa: i think it's ready or very close to
653 2021-11-11T19:07:52  <sipa> yeah just not sure if anyone is waiting for something
654 2021-11-11T19:08:11  <laanwj> sipa: no, thanks for reminding me
655 2021-11-11T19:09:11  <laanwj> nothing to change in blockers? moving on to next topic, then
656 2021-11-11T19:09:27  <laanwj> #topic Some ASMap questions (fjahr)
657 2021-11-11T19:09:27  <core-meetingbot> topic: Some ASMap questions (fjahr)
658 2021-11-11T19:09:38  <fjahr> Hi! In coordination with Gleb I am working on getting ASMap bucketing the attention that it deserves. As many probably know, the feature was merged almost 2 years ago and is currently opt-in.
659 2021-11-11T19:09:49  <fjahr> If you want to use the feature without trusting someone’s random file you have to build and run a couple of scripts in order to create the file yourself. This was intentional, allowing those interested and savvy enough to use the feature with making it the default. It seems now the time has come to make asmap the default.
660 2021-11-11T19:10:13  <fjahr> I am still doing a lot of research on what the process of creating the “official” asmap file should look like ideally. I will come back with more info on that, but for now I have a few questions with the goal of nailing down a few other pieces of the puzzle.
661 2021-11-11T19:10:39  <fjahr> First of all I want to renew Gleb’s call to action here (see https://blog.bitmex.com/call-to-action-testing-and-improving-asmap/) and ask anyone to share feedback if there is any that you haven’t shared with Gleb already. Please let me know if you have been running the feature made any experiences worth sharing (good or bad could both be helpful)!
662 2021-11-11T19:11:14  <laanwj> yes, it now has been experimental for quite a while, people tested it and didn't find any critical issues
663 2021-11-11T19:11:35  <sipa> i think the big questions are around tooling & process for distributing/integrating an asmap file
664 2021-11-11T19:11:40  <laanwj> though there are some practical issues with integrating the file into the build process
665 2021-11-11T19:11:41  <sipa> not the lookup code itself
666 2021-11-11T19:12:04  <laanwj> right
667 2021-11-11T19:12:23  <fjahr> sipa: what is the lookup code?
668 2021-11-11T19:13:33  <sipa> fjahr: the currently integrated asmap code in bitcoin core, i mean
669 2021-11-11T19:13:44  <sipa> that looks up ASNs in the asmap file
670 2021-11-11T19:13:53  <fjahr> ah, ok, yeah
671 2021-11-11T19:14:36  <fjahr> So, one question on tooling in the wider sense: Technically #18573 has received enough concept acks but I liked Sjors’ suggestion to put it into bitcoin-util, which might make it easier to pull out the functionality later on. Some people have noted that putting it in a separate library would be good for reuse in other projects, others would like to see that code shipped with core. I think this is a good middle ground for now. Does
672 2021-11-11T19:14:36  <fjahr> anyone have objections? (I know a better question to ask in the issue but I thought, while I am here…)
673 2021-11-11T19:14:37  <laanwj> e.g. one thing to consider, besides deterministic build details, is how to ship it, to embed the data into the binary is not practical because then bitcoind and bitcoin-qt would both need a copy
674 2021-11-11T19:14:37  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18573 | [RFC] bitcoin-asmap utility by sipa · Pull Request #18573 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
675 2021-11-11T19:15:49  <laanwj> no, no objections with adding it to bitcoin-util
676 2021-11-11T19:15:58  <_aj_> +1 on adding it to bitcoin-util
677 2021-11-11T19:16:01  <sipa> the problem is really that it can't be made deterministic, as there is no authoritative source
678 2021-11-11T19:16:23  <fjahr> laanwj: hm, my impression was that shipping it included in a release would be the most practical option
679 2021-11-11T19:16:25  <luke-jr> separate is usually better
680 2021-11-11T19:16:32  <laanwj> better than adding yet another binary
681 2021-11-11T19:16:48  <sipa> there are many ways of gathering source data of ASNs, like downloading it from certain providers, or if you're BlueMatt, generating it from your own BGP router
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683 2021-11-11T19:17:22  <laanwj> fjahr: yes, but that would imply a deterministic build, and some way for the bitcoind/bitcoin-qt to automatically find the file that was downloaded with the distribution, i mean
684 2021-11-11T19:17:36  <fjahr> sipa: yes, I am actively researching this part so I would like to keep this discussion for another time :)
685 2021-11-11T19:17:41  <sipa> fjahr: surew
686 2021-11-11T19:17:51  <laanwj> it could be something simple like 'look in the directory of the binary' or a relative path or whatnot
687 2021-11-11T19:18:28  <sipa> what tooling do we expect to have? i think we want ways to encode/decode/lookup (as the current code has), but probably always ways of diffing/patching, and perhaps other kinds of analysis
688 2021-11-11T19:18:29  <laanwj> in any case it's something that needs to be considered, clearly not in thismeeting
689 2021-11-11T19:18:33  <luke-jr> laanwj: the directory of the binary can be /usr/bin :p
690 2021-11-11T19:18:47  <sipa> do we imagine all of these to become separate commands in bitcoin-util?
691 2021-11-11T19:18:49  <laanwj> luke-jr: yes, it's different for linux and windows maybe
692 2021-11-11T19:18:55  <laanwj> sipa: i suppose so
693 2021-11-11T19:19:31  <luke-jr> why the push to put it in the Core repo? it has nothing to do with Bitcoin and is a generally useful thing…?
694 2021-11-11T19:19:44  <_aj_> sipa: either "bitcoin-util asmap {encode,decode,lookup}" or "bitcoin-util {asmap-encode,asmap-decode,asmap-lookup}"
695 2021-11-11T19:19:55  <fjahr> yeah, that's what I am thinking too but I first want to have a clear picture which commands are really helpful
696 2021-11-11T19:20:24  <sipa> luke-jr: well the obvious question is which is most likely to progress - there are barriers/overhead to creating yet another repository to maintain
697 2021-11-11T19:20:41  <sipa> i agree it's potentially generally useful though, but as long as it doesn't get built, it's nothing at all
698 2021-11-11T19:20:42  <laanwj> luke-jr: not sure if you're talking about the utilities or the file here, but the asmap file is not going to be in the repo, the idea is to put the utilities there for now it can always be spun off
699 2021-11-11T19:20:54  <sipa> i was talking about the tools
700 2021-11-11T19:21:30  <sipa> so my thinking is that if starting the project as being something integrated into core results in it being actually useful/used, it can be spun off
701 2021-11-11T19:21:35  <laanwj> if someone wants to maintain separate asmap utilties might be better to wait until other projects actually want to use it
702 2021-11-11T19:21:41  <fjahr> luke-jr: also some people noted it would be better to have the the tools right there so people would not need to get another tool for the auditing. But long term I absolutely agree.
703 2021-11-11T19:22:14  <luke-jr> they're no more "right there" than any other tool :/
704 2021-11-11T19:22:44  <fjahr> sipa, laanwj: I agree, let's see if there is actual interest
705 2021-11-11T19:23:04  <sipa> i don't think the "right here" matters that much - normal users won't be using these tools
706 2021-11-11T19:23:13  <sipa> it's just a matter of getting the project going
707 2021-11-11T19:24:00  <michaelfolkson> +1
708 2021-11-11T19:24:03  <laanwj> i'm also against scope creep, but, in bitcoin-util doesn't seem to be a big problem, it's some maintenance cost, sure, but no attack surface or bug risk for running nodes
709 2021-11-11T19:24:04  <luke-jr> the only overhead I know of is writing a configure script; if that's the issue, I can try to make time to put one together
710 2021-11-11T19:24:27  <laanwj> of course, there already *is* the bitcoin-maintainer-tools repository where it could go
711 2021-11-11T19:24:31  <sipa> luke-jr: there is also just management overhead; you need maintainers for a project, who are active, ...
712 2021-11-11T19:24:33  <laanwj> but that's also bitcoin speicifc
713 2021-11-11T19:24:39  <sipa> reviewers, who care to look at the repo
714 2021-11-11T19:24:44  <luke-jr> sipa: that's true no matter what repo it's part of
715 2021-11-11T19:24:49  <laanwj> (well, github-merge.py does see some externral use)
716 2021-11-11T19:25:14  <lightlike> if the plan is  to have some kind of ceremony for each release, in which multiple contributors are going to build the asmap that would be distributed with it and compare these in some way, I think it might make sense to have it in the repo
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718 2021-11-11T19:26:13  <laanwj> lightlike: i don't think it matters for that if the tools are in the repo or a separate one for that?
719 2021-11-11T19:26:52  <sipa> we'll definitely wants scripts/tooling specific to the creation/ceremony of the bitcoin-core-shipped asmap file in our repo, but that doesn't require the software tools involved to be there too
720 2021-11-11T19:27:13  <laanwj> the main difference is whether they're versioned in tandem with bitcoin core itself
721 2021-11-11T19:27:16  <sipa> right
722 2021-11-11T19:27:40  <laanwj> sipa: yes, true
723 2021-11-11T19:28:06  <_aj_> unless the format changes, you'd want to use the latest asmap file even if you're running an old bitcoind for some reason, no?
724 2021-11-11T19:28:25  <sipa> _aj_: that's a good point
725 2021-11-11T19:28:39  <laanwj> that makes sense
726 2021-11-11T19:28:42  <fjahr> yeah, I would suggest we create a new repo in the org which hosts all of the asmap files that are shipped with each release. The historic ones would be interesting for auditing and the newest ones can be used by users of older releases that still wish to run with a newer asmap file.
727 2021-11-11T19:29:09  <laanwj> agree, a separate repository for the asmap files definitely a good idea
728 2021-11-11T19:29:40  <laanwj> the build process has to get them from somewhere too
729 2021-11-11T19:29:40  <luke-jr> which makes the case for a separate tool repo even stronger IMO
730 2021-11-11T19:30:09  <fjahr> Related to that, in terms of releasing the updated “official” ASMaps I am thinking that once with every release (major and minor) will be sufficient. Some people suggested a higher frequency but it is not clear yet if that is a significant win in terms of security and it would produce more work for maintainers.
731 2021-11-11T19:30:19  <laanwj> what's the argument against putting the tools in bitcoin-maintainer-tools
732 2021-11-11T19:30:33  <fjahr> Of course if my research ends up suggesting otherwise, I would propose a higher frequency
733 2021-11-11T19:30:43  <_aj_> encoding/decoding is presumably easier with all the code already in bitcoind?
734 2021-11-11T19:30:43  <luke-jr> laanwj: they're not Bitcoin-related? :P
735 2021-11-11T19:30:45  <laanwj> it's for maintainers / very involved developers anyway
736 2021-11-11T19:31:13  <_aj_> (though using the python code would probably be just as easy as using the c++ code, i guess?)
737 2021-11-11T19:31:36  <sipa> _aj_: the code in bitcoin core currently only does lookup
738 2021-11-11T19:31:48  <laanwj> the language doesn't matter that much
739 2021-11-11T19:31:53  <_aj_> sipa: i mean #18573
740 2021-11-11T19:31:55  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/18573 | [RFC] bitcoin-asmap utility by sipa · Pull Request #18573 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
741 2021-11-11T19:31:58  <sipa> ah yes
742 2021-11-11T19:32:05  <laanwj> sure, currently all the maintainer tools are python, but there's no reason there couldn't be c++ code there
743 2021-11-11T19:32:11  <luke-jr> fjahr: maybe update them when there are major changes, but at least once every 6 months?
744 2021-11-11T19:32:25  <laanwj> i'm sure that's advantegous from a performance perspective
745 2021-11-11T19:32:40  <laanwj> it's quite a lot of data to crunch isn't it?
746 2021-11-11T19:32:44  <_aj_> i'm +1 on either bitcoin-util or adding to the maintainer tools repo, whichever actually gets a PR
747 2021-11-11T19:33:01  <laanwj> yes, no strong opinion either really
748 2021-11-11T19:33:04  <fjahr> luke-jr: it will be very hard to define what a major change is but I am working on getting a better picture on that
749 2021-11-11T19:33:21  <laanwj> but creating yet another repo for the tools seems suboptimal to me right now
750 2021-11-11T19:34:11  <laanwj> but if someone wants to commit to maintaining this i'm also not strongly against it
751 2021-11-11T19:34:44  <laanwj> exactly, whatever gets a PR
752 2021-11-11T19:34:46  <_aj_> laanwj: should the asmap data be in its own repo, or some other one?
753 2021-11-11T19:35:00  <laanwj> _aj_: asmap *files* should get their own repo
754 2021-11-11T19:35:07  <laanwj> not the same one as the tools in any case :)
755 2021-11-11T19:35:38  <_aj_> sgtm
756 2021-11-11T19:35:39  <laanwj> i think that's straightforward, no maintenance there, just put the file in the repo when it's done
757 2021-11-11T19:35:59  <laanwj> same as the various -sigs ones
758 2021-11-11T19:36:35  <fjahr> Ok, last question for now: I think it would be good to provide a startup parameter that allows switching back to /16 if people feel they want to do that. So basically forcing the 'asmap file missing' case. Should there also be a comfortable option to switch for GUI users or is it not needed? (asking this as a true GUI noob)
759 2021-11-11T19:37:10  <laanwj> if it's a startup parameter it could also be an option in the GUI options dialog
760 2021-11-11T19:37:16  <laanwj> not that much work
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762 2021-11-11T19:37:33  <fjahr> ok, sounds good
763 2021-11-11T19:37:44  <_aj_> fjahr: -noasmap ?
764 2021-11-11T19:38:10  <fjahr> _aj_: didn't think about a name but yeah
765 2021-11-11T19:38:26  <laanwj> though it maybe somewhat obscure and hard to explain for GUI end users, the people diving so deep into network specifics are likely able to edit bitcoin.conf
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767 2021-11-11T19:39:06  <laanwj> e.g. imagine translators being confronted with stuff about autonomous systems :-)
768 2021-11-11T19:39:20  <fjahr> heh, true
769 2021-11-11T19:40:05  <laanwj> next topic?
770 2021-11-11T19:40:07  <fjahr> Unless there are other comments, that's it from me, thanks for the input!
771 2021-11-11T19:40:18  <laanwj> no problem, thanks for your work on this
772 2021-11-11T19:40:28  <sipa> cool
773 2021-11-11T19:40:49  <laanwj> #topic Maybe quickly on bitcoincore.org (michaelfolkson)
774 2021-11-11T19:40:49  <core-meetingbot> topic: Maybe quickly on bitcoincore.org (michaelfolkson)
775 2021-11-11T19:41:22  <michaelfolkson> Ok so I was looking through bitcoincore.org and I was wondering if I was missing some historical context on the purpose of the site
776 2021-11-11T19:41:50  <laanwj> it basically has one purpose: downloading the software
777 2021-11-11T19:41:53  <michaelfolkson> It was heavily used for the SegWit soft fork and for things like RBF info to users but hasn't been used at all for Taproot information really
778 2021-11-11T19:42:05  <michaelfolkson> Ok and that's deliberate right?
779 2021-11-11T19:42:15  <laanwj> there's also developer documentation on it under the doxygen subdomain
780 2021-11-11T19:42:19  <laanwj> yes
781 2021-11-11T19:42:39  <michaelfolkson> Ok that answers my question :)
782 2021-11-11T19:43:25  <laanwj> agree there's some really outdated information on it
783 2021-11-11T19:43:30  <michaelfolkson> I wondered if it was just because harding had less time these days or something. But good to know it is deliberate
784 2021-11-11T19:43:43  <michaelfolkson> I can see the arguments for doing that too
785 2021-11-11T19:43:51  <laanwj> or at least, stuff written against a very old context, like the RBF faq you mention
786 2021-11-11T19:44:14  <michaelfolkson> Most of it is still interesting/a good read but yeah slightly outdated
787 2021-11-11T19:44:26  <_aj_> optech and stackoverflow seem more popular places for that sort of info today; they weren't really options at the time
788 2021-11-11T19:44:32  <laanwj> that's also part of the reason, there's also no one to do it, but i'm also not sure it should be done, there's enough information in other places
789 2021-11-11T19:44:40  <laanwj> yes optech is great
790 2021-11-11T19:44:51  <michaelfolkson> Ok cool, thanks
791 2021-11-11T19:45:38  <laanwj> thanks, that concludes the meeting, i think, unless someone has another last minute topic
792 2021-11-11T19:46:28  <laanwj> #endmeeting
793 2021-11-11T19:46:28  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
794 2021-11-11T19:46:28  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Nov 11 19:46:28 2021 UTC.
795 2021-11-11T19:46:28  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2021/bitcoin-core-dev.2021-11-11-19.00.moin.txt
796 2021-11-11T19:48:06  <laanwj> fjahr: let me know when you need the asmap files repository (or i could just create it already)
797 2021-11-11T19:50:03  <fjahr> laanwj: thanks, I will let you know or just go ahead, as you like :)
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809 2021-11-11T20:16:42  <laanwj> fjahr: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/asmap-data
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814 2021-11-11T20:38:01  <fjahr> laanwj: nice, thanks!
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