1 2022-01-20T00:01:47  <theStack_> _aj_: true, though that wouldn't prevent users from burning funds (though one could argue that reducing the supply is just a donation to everyone else)
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  3 2022-01-20T00:05:33  <_aj_> theStack_: "also"
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  5 2022-01-20T00:11:22  <theStack_> _aj_: ah, right
  6 2022-01-20T00:14:27  <theStack_> but UTXO set exclusion is consensus-relevant, no? thinking about utreexo and assumeutxo, it wouldn't be healthy if UTXO sets differ between nodes
  7 2022-01-20T00:15:23  <sipa> So far nothing relies on having a normalized UTXO set, I think.
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  9 2022-01-20T00:15:51  <sipa> Apart from the fact that `gettxoutsetinfo`'s hash will differ - but we can rename the hash field's name to indicate that.
 10 2022-01-20T00:18:22  <_aj_> sipa: if you track the utxos you've excluded via muhash, i think you could just add that to the muhash of the utxos you haven't excluded and get the same result
 11 2022-01-20T00:18:48  <sipa> Interesting!
 12 2022-01-20T00:25:12  <theStack_> nice indeed
 13 2022-01-20T00:25:56  <_aj_> sipa: oh, and since they're unspendable, when you initially go to exclude them, if you go through the utxo set in height order, you should be able to recreate the excluded hashes at every block height fairly efficiently...
 14 2022-01-20T00:26:19  <_aj_> sipa: (ie, without having to look up any blocks from disk)
 15 2022-01-20T00:34:52  <theStack_> currently, if i run let's say a 0.8 node and 22.0 one syncing to the tip, the UTXO sets are equal? or were there already UTXOs exclusions introduced in previous versions?
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 17 2022-01-20T00:40:57  <_aj_> theStack_: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2791 was included in 0.9 not 0.8 i think?
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 21 2022-01-20T00:58:13  <theStack_> _aj_: thanks, interesting
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 25 2022-01-20T01:31:46  <achow101> theStack_: I think that is reasonable
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 28 2022-01-20T01:37:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/06b636976613...7102f7d6f3c4
 29 2022-01-20T01:37:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ce6dd2f fanquake: zeromq 4.3.4
 30 2022-01-20T01:37:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6897c4b fanquake: build: patch depends zeromq to fix building on NetBSD Current
 31 2022-01-20T01:37:23  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7102f7d fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23956: build: use zeromq 4.3.4 in depends & fix NetB...
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 34 2022-01-20T01:37:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #23956: build: use zeromq 4.3.4 in depends & fix NetBSD 10 build (master...zeromq_4_3_4) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23956
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 39 2022-01-20T01:47:17  <fanquake> Blocked 13rAXwNNnaAuCJA3z1REfJbJNMwgK4LBTC from the bitcoin/ org, as they were spamming the wiki in the bips repo
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 51 2022-01-20T03:42:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #24106: policy: treat P2TR outputs with invalid x-only pubkey as non-standard (master...202201-policy-treat_p2tr_with_invalid_xpubkey_as_nonstandard) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24106
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 75 2022-01-20T05:06:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/7102f7d6f3c4...a541e5d51988
 76 2022-01-20T05:06:27  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master dc5d6b0 Andrew Chow: fs: Make compatible with boost 1.78
 77 2022-01-20T05:06:27  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a541e5d fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24104: fs: Make compatible with boost 1.78
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 80 2022-01-20T05:06:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24104: fs: Make compatible with boost 1.78 (master...fix-fs-path-plus) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24104
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 84 2022-01-20T05:14:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a541e5d51988...63fc2f5cce6a
 85 2022-01-20T05:14:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e2ab9f8 fanquake: build: disable external signer on Windows
 86 2022-01-20T05:14:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 63fc2f5 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24065: build: explicitly disable support for externa...
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 89 2022-01-20T05:14:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24065: build: explicitly disable support for external signing on Windows (master...no_external_signer_win_openbsd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24065
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134 2022-01-20T09:57:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] w0xlt opened pull request #24108: Replace RecursiveMutex `cs_addrLocal` with Mutex, and rename it (master...change_cs_addrLocal) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24108
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159 2022-01-20T11:43:41  <michaelfolkson> fanquake: Thanks for the blocking notifications
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173 2022-01-20T13:41:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24111: build: force CRCCheck in Windows installer (master...force_win_installer_crccheck) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24111
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178 2022-01-20T13:59:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/63fc2f5cce6a...1824644a363b
179 2022-01-20T13:59:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a7da140 w0xlt: scripted-diff: rename cs_mapLocalHost -> g_maplocalhost_mutex
180 2022-01-20T13:59:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5e7e4c9 w0xlt: refactor: replace RecursiveMutex g_maplocalhost_mutex with Mutex
181 2022-01-20T13:59:19  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1824644 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24099: Replace `RecursiveMutex cs_mapLocalHost` with...
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184 2022-01-20T13:59:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24099: Replace `RecursiveMutex cs_mapLocalHost` with Mutex, and rename it (master...mutex-mapLocalHost) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24099
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203 2022-01-20T14:49:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24112: build: pass win32-dll to LT_INIT() (master...libtool_init_win32_dll) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24112
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206 2022-01-20T14:49:47  <hebasto> nice to see how #19303 is being fulfilled
207 2022-01-20T14:49:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19303 | Replace all of the RecursiveMutex instances with the Mutex ones · Issue #19303 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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215 2022-01-20T15:12:47  <theStack_> hebasto: indeed \o/ will be tough when it comes to cs_main, the final boss
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217 2022-01-20T15:14:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #24113: test, refactor: add GetTransaction() coverage, part 2 (master...rpc_rawtransaction-test-followups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24113
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244 2022-01-20T17:12:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1824644a363b...b60c477d54bb
245 2022-01-20T17:12:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faedb11 MarcoFalke: refactor tests to fix ubsan suppressions
246 2022-01-20T17:12:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b60c477 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23629: refactor tests to fix ubsan suppressions
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249 2022-01-20T17:12:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23629: refactor tests to fix ubsan suppressions (master...2111-testInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23629
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264 2022-01-20T17:43:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b60c477d54bb...e3ce019667fb
265 2022-01-20T17:43:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 36012ef Antoine Poinsot: qa: test descriptors with mixed xpubs and const pubkeys
266 2022-01-20T17:43:52  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e3ce019 Andrew Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23171: qa: test descriptors with mixed xpubs and con...
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269 2022-01-20T17:44:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #23171: qa: test descriptors with mixed xpubs and const pubkeys (master...desc_test_mix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23171
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284 2022-01-20T18:17:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak opened pull request #24115: ARMv8 SHA2 Intrinsics (master...armv8-shani) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24115
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297 2022-01-20T19:01:22  <laanwj> #startmeeting
298 2022-01-20T19:01:23  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Thu Jan 20 19:01:22 2022 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
299 2022-01-20T19:01:23  <core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
300 2022-01-20T19:01:29  <sipsorcery> hi
301 2022-01-20T19:01:30  <b10c> hi
302 2022-01-20T19:01:40  <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball
303 2022-01-20T19:01:42  <laanwj> morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
304 2022-01-20T19:01:44  <hebasto> hi
305 2022-01-20T19:01:48  <jonatack> hi
306 2022-01-20T19:01:52  <MarcoFalke> hi
307 2022-01-20T19:01:55  <achow101> hi
308 2022-01-20T19:01:58  <_aj_> hi
309 2022-01-20T19:01:59  <lightlike> hi
310 2022-01-20T19:02:01  <kvaciral[m]> hi
311 2022-01-20T19:02:35  <laanwj> hi
312 2022-01-20T19:02:46  <laanwj> it looks like there have been no proposed meeting topics this week (this can be done using #proposedmeetingtopic <topic>), any last-minute ones?
313 2022-01-20T19:02:55  <jarolrod> Hi
314 2022-01-20T19:03:32  <jeremyrubin> hi
315 2022-01-20T19:03:35  <sipa> hi
316 2022-01-20T19:04:39  <laanwj> #topic High priority for review
317 2022-01-20T19:04:39  <core-meetingbot`> topic: High priority for review
318 2022-01-20T19:05:06  <MarcoFalke> Can I have #23438 pls
319 2022-01-20T19:05:07  <laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  : 9 blockers, 1 chasing concept ACK
320 2022-01-20T19:05:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23438 | refactor: Use spans of std::byte in serialize by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #23438 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
321 2022-01-20T19:06:06  <laanwj> MarcoFalke: added
322 2022-01-20T19:06:17  <MarcoFalke> thx
323 2022-01-20T19:06:51  <cfields> hi
324 2022-01-20T19:08:01  <laanwj> anything else to add/remove, or is anything ready for merge?
325 2022-01-20T19:09:11  <_aj_> i think #23508 is rfm but it needs a few more acks :)
326 2022-01-20T19:09:13  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
327 2022-01-20T19:09:14  <jonatack> #23604 had 4 ACKs before the last rebase, should be close
328 2022-01-20T19:09:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23604 | Use Sock in CNode by vasild · Pull Request #23604 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
329 2022-01-20T19:09:43  <laanwj> ah yes #23604 should definitely be close, and #23508 too
330 2022-01-20T19:09:45  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23604 | Use Sock in CNode by vasild · Pull Request #23604 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
331 2022-01-20T19:09:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
332 2022-01-20T19:10:27  *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
333 2022-01-20T19:10:45  <jonatack> #22932 had acks by hebasto, achow101 and vasild. I updated it to take review feedback, re-acks welcome
334 2022-01-20T19:10:47  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22932 | Add CBlockIndex lock annotations, guard nStatus/nFile/nDataPos/nUndoPos by cs_main by jonatack · Pull Request #22932 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
335 2022-01-20T19:11:00  <fjahr> hi
336 2022-01-20T19:11:10  <jonatack> it now contains a few commits by hebasto and vasild
337 2022-01-20T19:11:25  *** rottenstonks_ <rottenstonks_!~rottensto@user/rottenstonks> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
338 2022-01-20T19:11:46  <jonatack> will look at #23508
339 2022-01-20T19:11:48  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
340 2022-01-20T19:11:49  <laanwj> great!
341 2022-01-20T19:12:03  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:b8cd:7a20:7963:7278> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
342 2022-01-20T19:12:44  <fjahr> already started reviewing #23508, should be done soon as well
343 2022-01-20T19:12:46  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
344 2022-01-20T19:13:11  *** rottenstonks_ is now known as rottenstonks
345 2022-01-20T19:14:22  <laanwj> any other topics?
346 2022-01-20T19:15:16  <_aj_> is the 23.0 milestone up to date?
347 2022-01-20T19:15:54  <jeremyrubin> if there's nothing else i think it's interesting to talk about making a style-change epoch after split-off
348 2022-01-20T19:16:08  <laanwj> _aj_: i don't know, do you see anything off?
349 2022-01-20T19:16:25  <laanwj> style change epoch? oh no...
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351 2022-01-20T19:16:32  <_aj_> laanwj: just wonering if i should go through that a few times before feature freeze
352 2022-01-20T19:16:34  <MarcoFalke> Yeah, let us know if anything is missing from it or should be removed
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354 2022-01-20T19:17:00  <MarcoFalke> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/52
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356 2022-01-20T19:19:28  <laanwj> #topic Style change after split-off (jeremyrubin)
357 2022-01-20T19:19:29  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Style change after split-off (jeremyrubin)
358 2022-01-20T19:19:34  <jeremyrubin> see #22969
359 2022-01-20T19:19:35  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22969 | Release schedule for 23.0 · Issue #22969 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
360 2022-01-20T19:19:57  <jeremyrubin> the concept would be that after split off for T days bigger cleanups can be prioritized
361 2022-01-20T19:20:08  <jeremyrubin> and then after T days, cleanups would not really be considered
362 2022-01-20T19:20:15  <laanwj> not a fan of all-over-the-place changes that break every other PR just for style's sake tbh
363 2022-01-20T19:20:17  <sipa> concept nack in general on invasive style changes
364 2022-01-20T19:20:21  <laanwj> yeah
365 2022-01-20T19:20:22  <jeremyrubin> this is to allow for cleanups while minimizing rebase work
366 2022-01-20T19:20:31  <sipa> refactors that are useful for other reasons... sure, on a case-by-case basis
367 2022-01-20T19:20:48  <laanwj> not sure anyone cares anymore but we used to not do this and i think for good reason
368 2022-01-20T19:20:48  <jeremyrubin> i am nack on the invasive changes as well, but it seems people do continually want things like changing all C style casts
369 2022-01-20T19:21:01  <laanwj> nack on the casts change, not only is it invasive it's risky
370 2022-01-20T19:21:21  <_aj_> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15465 maybe relevant history/context
371 2022-01-20T19:21:22  <jeremyrubin> or things like moving class A from file X to file Y to clean a linker supression
372 2022-01-20T19:22:18  <_aj_> personally i like/prefer the "do useful work, and clean up as you go" approach that we're already doing
373 2022-01-20T19:22:19  <laanwj> you mean breaking circular dependencies? yeah, that can be valid
374 2022-01-20T19:22:25  <MarcoFalke> [20:20] <sipa> refactors that are useful for other reasons... sure, on a case-by-case basis
375 2022-01-20T19:22:33  <jeremyrubin> e.g. #17786
376 2022-01-20T19:22:34  <MarcoFalke> Agree with sipa that this is a case-by-case decision
377 2022-01-20T19:22:34  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17786 | refactor: Nuke policy/fees->mempool circular dependencies by hebasto · Pull Request #17786 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
378 2022-01-20T19:22:36  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
379 2022-01-20T19:22:38  <sipa> aj: agreew
380 2022-01-20T19:22:59  <laanwj> i don't see that as much of a style thing
381 2022-01-20T19:23:02  <jeremyrubin> well the point would more be to still do these things when they make sense, but contain it to a minimally disruptive part of the release cycle
382 2022-01-20T19:23:06  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
383 2022-01-20T19:23:09  <laanwj> circular dependencies are just bad design
384 2022-01-20T19:23:22  <jeremyrubin> laanwj: but you can see how that's very disruptive for rebasing
385 2022-01-20T19:23:28  <laanwj> sure
386 2022-01-20T19:23:49  <jeremyrubin> so the point of a cleanup epoch would be to do cleanups like that only in e.g. the first month after split off
387 2022-01-20T19:23:58  <_aj_> it's maximally disruptive for anything we want to backport to the latest release though?
388 2022-01-20T19:24:04  <MarcoFalke> jeremyrubin: Why would a specific epoch be minimally disruptive? I'd say it depends on the case
389 2022-01-20T19:24:09  <sipa> I conceptually agree that there are better/worse times to make invasive changes (assuming they're justified)... but they also have to be ready at that point.
390 2022-01-20T19:24:18  <jeremyrubin> yeah i'm not tied to a specific time
391 2022-01-20T19:24:24  <sipa> And indeed, when that is depends on the case.
392 2022-01-20T19:24:38  <MarcoFalke> If you are touching a part of the code that no one else is touching, then the time doesn't matter
393 2022-01-20T19:24:39  <jeremyrubin> just thinking that it might be something that leads to less contributor frustration
394 2022-01-20T19:25:05  <jeremyrubin> if people who work on these things know when it is appropriate and people who don't don't have to argue for not merging a conflict
395 2022-01-20T19:25:21  <MarcoFalke> If you are touding a part of the code that is touched by others, then you'll have to order the changes anyway
396 2022-01-20T19:25:51  <sipa> Right, but the risk is that we designate a specific timeframe for refactors... and then we get a torrent of refactors in that time that all conflict with each other.
397 2022-01-20T19:26:50  <jeremyrubin> possibly. although it's not clear it's a bigger problem than as is v.s. just more apparent
398 2022-01-20T19:27:10  <jeremyrubin> if we queue up the refactors and people discuss them before investing time maybe that can help mitigate it
399 2022-01-20T19:27:39  <MarcoFalke> I'd also expect it will be harder to find reviewers if there is a time pressure/specific time slot
400 2022-01-20T19:28:28  *** ChanServ sets mode: -b *!*@103.131.239.33
401 2022-01-20T19:28:53  <jonatack> seems best to remain ad hoc about it (as it is currently)
402 2022-01-20T19:29:31  <MarcoFalke> If you are worries about invensting time, you can also ask during the meeting if the concept makes sense (or in an issue)
403 2022-01-20T19:29:48  <jeremyrubin> i guess so, it seems sad though because i think it does contribute to burn out and frustration.
404 2022-01-20T19:30:02  <jeremyrubin> i dont spend time on refactors like this anymore afaik so not really concerned for me
405 2022-01-20T19:30:06  <MarcoFalke> Generally writing code is trivial compared to reading and reviewing not so
406 2022-01-20T19:30:12  <MarcoFalke> s/not so//g
407 2022-01-20T19:30:59  <jeremyrubin> i think the main benefit is for people not working on these
408 2022-01-20T19:31:27  <jeremyrubin> If i have a feature/improvement X and there is also a refactor Y in the pipe that would confilict does it makes sense for me to refactor/rebase X?
409 2022-01-20T19:31:48  <jeremyrubin> If I knew that the cleanup work would not pre-empt, i might spend time more actively on X rather than speculating on Y
410 2022-01-20T19:31:53  <jonatack> one can make the argument that adding process can contribute to dev frustration as well
411 2022-01-20T19:32:49  <jeremyrubin> jonatack: good point, process ==bureaucracy, however, it also leads to getting a clear answer on when or how something can proceed
412 2022-01-20T19:33:12  <sipa> I think most frustration is simply due to lack of review feedback. I don't think that designating times for certain kinds of changes will improve that (and it may even work the other way around... "I was told this was the time for this kind of change, and I *still* don't get feedback!?")
413 2022-01-20T19:33:12  <jeremyrubin> i personally favor clear answers v.s. unclear ones
414 2022-01-20T19:33:12  <MarcoFalke> If you think that X should go before Y (or the other way round), you should say so in a review comment
415 2022-01-20T19:33:46  <_aj_> drahtbot already says that when it reports conflicting prs
416 2022-01-20T19:34:09  <jeremyrubin> _aj_ afaict drahbot doesn't analyze for merge order, just for conflicts
417 2022-01-20T19:34:17  <jeremyrubin> and it's buggy w.r.t. silent conflicts
418 2022-01-20T19:34:19  <_aj_> jeremyrubin: no it tells you to figure out which one should go first
419 2022-01-20T19:34:31  <jeremyrubin> (err unsolvable)
420 2022-01-20T19:34:31  <MarcoFalke> Jup, it was the intention behind the comment to focus reviewers on one of the conflicts
421 2022-01-20T19:35:02  <MarcoFalke> DrahtBot re-runs all CI every 9 days, so (some) silent conflicts are now detected
422 2022-01-20T19:35:17  <laanwj> that's good!
423 2022-01-20T19:35:22  <jeremyrubin> anyhow it sounds like most people are happy with the status quo on this stuff so it's not a hill i'd die on
424 2022-01-20T19:35:29  <MarcoFalke> DrahtBot can't tell you which order to merge. This is up to the reviewers
425 2022-01-20T19:36:15  <sipa> I wouldn't say I'm happy - the frustration you speak of, and the impact on contributors is certainly real. I however don't think your suggestion will improve it.
426 2022-01-20T19:36:28  <MarcoFalke> I mean frustration is certainly real, but I think a "refactor window" is not a clear and trivial to solve that.
427 2022-01-20T19:36:29  <lightlike> seems in practice it's more up to the maintainers - I rarely see discussions about merge order amongst reviewers
428 2022-01-20T19:36:57  <laanwj> it would be an indication to the maintainers
429 2022-01-20T19:37:03  <MarcoFalke> lightlike: It is implicit in where people put their ACKs
430 2022-01-20T19:37:14  <jeremyrubin> sipa: fair, i'm not tied to any specific suggestion. is there something else you think might be an improvement?
431 2022-01-20T19:37:33  <sipa> I'm afraid I don't have concrete suggestions.
432 2022-01-20T19:37:44  <laanwj> it definitely happens that someone asks for something to be merged before/after another PR
433 2022-01-20T19:38:03  <jeremyrubin> is this a harmful thing to try over e.g. 2 releases?
434 2022-01-20T19:38:05  <laanwj> not often, but it's also not often necessary
435 2022-01-20T19:38:25  <jeremyrubin> or do we feel confident the problems would exceed the benefit?
436 2022-01-20T19:39:15  <jeremyrubin> i'm all for trying something if the status quo isn't happy and if it doesnt help trying something else
437 2022-01-20T19:39:26  <laanwj> that kind of coordination tends to be pretty hard to do in this project tbh
438 2022-01-20T19:40:09  <sipa> I think it's such a case-by-case thing that trying to institute a process for it isn't helpful.
439 2022-01-20T19:40:23  <MarcoFalke> Jup, would be hard to announce that the next 12 days from today are the "refactor window" and explain what that even means in practice
440 2022-01-20T19:41:42  <_aj_> are there any refactoring tools that make it easy to see "oh you're just changing from Foo* x and x->bar to Foo& x and x.bar" these days?
441 2022-01-20T19:42:02  <jeremyrubin> scripted-diff?
442 2022-01-20T19:42:04  <MarcoFalke> "--word-diff-regex=." ?
443 2022-01-20T19:42:24  <_aj_> i mean syntax aware, rather than textual
444 2022-01-20T19:42:26  <jeremyrubin> there's no tooling for AFAIU testing a scripted diff against all current reported conflicting branches
445 2022-01-20T19:43:32  <MarcoFalke> _aj_: You can write one based on https://github.com/llvm-mirror/clang/blob/master/tools/clang-diff/ClangDiff.cpp ;)
446 2022-01-20T19:43:34  <_aj_> syntax aware can see I'm changing Foo::bar to Foo::m_bar and see that Baz::bar is unrelated while scripted-diff generally can't eg
447 2022-01-20T19:44:07  <laanwj> syntax/structure aware refactoring tools for c++ are really difficult to do, people have been trying for decades at least
448 2022-01-20T19:44:42  <laanwj> i think clang has some tooling nowadays but it's eally fiddly
449 2022-01-20T19:45:19  * MarcoFalke Let's use clang-refactor in a scripted-diff *hides
450 2022-01-20T19:45:20  <laanwj> for easier to parse languages like java it's quite common
451 2022-01-20T19:45:30  <laanwj> lol
452 2022-01-20T19:46:08  <laanwj> any other topics?
453 2022-01-20T19:46:20  <_aj_> MarcoFalke: yes, exactly! thanks!
454 2022-01-20T19:46:55  <laanwj> #endmeeting
455 2022-01-20T19:46:55  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
456 2022-01-20T19:46:55  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Thu Jan 20 19:46:54 2022 UTC.
457 2022-01-20T19:46:55  <core-meetingbot`> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-01-20-19.01.moin.txt
458 2022-01-20T19:49:08  *** drnet <drnet!~drnet@178.197.235.244> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
459 2022-01-20T19:50:02  <jonatack>  i've found a good cure for wanting more process is to go into consulting or industry and work on a process/buzzword/ritual-heavy agile/scrum software project :)
460 2022-01-20T19:51:19  *** sdfgsdfg <sdfgsdfg!~sdfgsdfg@user/sdfgsdfg> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
461 2022-01-20T19:52:10  <jeremyrubin> noted
462 2022-01-20T19:52:25  <jeremyrubin> hey random question, how does https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/thread/call_once work?
463 2022-01-20T19:52:48  <sipa> What do you mean by "how"?
464 2022-01-20T19:52:55  <jeremyrubin> oh nvm
465 2022-01-20T19:52:58  <jeremyrubin> i get it now
466 2022-01-20T19:53:21  <jeremyrubin> i missed you have to pass in your own atomic flag
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468 2022-01-20T19:53:58  <jeremyrubin> but still, kinda curious how the flag works practically with exception handling mostly
469 2022-01-20T19:54:31  <sipa> An `std::once_flag` could theoretically be simpler than an `std::atomic<bool>`, as it needs no means of going back from true to false.
470 2022-01-20T19:54:49  <jeremyrubin> well in this case the call_once permits functions that throw
471 2022-01-20T19:54:58  <jeremyrubin> and the others get 'queued up'
472 2022-01-20T19:55:16  <jeremyrubin> and then released once the call finishes sucessfully
473 2022-01-20T19:55:22  <jeremyrubin> and then all side effects can be seen
474 2022-01-20T19:55:29  <jeremyrubin> byt the other callers
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476 2022-01-20T19:57:16  <sipa> It doesn't sound hard to implement that using a mutex and a condition variable.
477 2022-01-20T19:57:40  <jeremyrubin> yeah but this is just using an atomic flag
478 2022-01-20T19:57:42  <sipa> Though I suspect most platforms offer far more efficient ways of accomplishing that (pthreads has a primitive for it, I think).
479 2022-01-20T19:57:50  <jeremyrubin> ah ok
480 2022-01-20T19:58:16  <jeremyrubin> would it be totally wild to use this in rewriting some of the caching logic for CTV to be cache-on-first-use?
481 2022-01-20T19:58:56  <sipa> I have no opinion on that.
482 2022-01-20T19:59:48  <jeremyrubin> no concerns about using call_once at all from consensus/script interpreter code?
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502 2022-01-20T21:18:35  <jeremyrubin> is there a convenient way to attach GDB from a functional test?
503 2022-01-20T21:19:11  <jeremyrubin> i want to test the node, not the test
504 2022-01-20T21:26:28  <achow101> jeremyrubin: you can pause the test with pdb, then attach gdb to the pid of the bitcoind you want to debug
505 2022-01-20T21:26:47  <achow101> there's a doc somewhere describing how to do this
506 2022-01-20T21:27:11  *** pergaminho <pergaminho!~pergaminh@user/pergaminho> has quit IRC ()
507 2022-01-20T21:30:55  <achow101> jeremyrubin: https://gist.github.com/fjahr/2cd23ad743a2ddfd4eed957274beca0f#debugging-from-functional-tests (substitute lldb with gdb, it should work)
508 2022-01-20T21:33:19  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
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510 2022-01-20T21:35:23  <jeremyrubin> yeah makes sense... maybe i will add a flag for it
511 2022-01-20T21:35:57  <jeremyrubin> key word "convenient" :)
512 2022-01-20T21:36:14  <jeremyrubin> maybe some shell aliases or smth
513 2022-01-20T21:36:41  <achow101> you could probably shell alias it
514 2022-01-20T21:36:56  <achow101> although that might be more difficult if the test has multiple nodes and you are trying to debug a specific one
515 2022-01-20T21:38:02  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
516 2022-01-20T21:38:16  <cfields> jeremyrubin: there's also --wait_for_debugger
517 2022-01-20T21:38:47  <cfields> Oh, whoops, functional. nm.
518 2022-01-20T21:45:39  <jeremyrubin> problem chased down anyways... another victim to a =default constructor lol
519 2022-01-20T21:46:34  <jeremyrubin> still may patch a way to have the node run in debugger of choice and drop to a console on fault
520 2022-01-20T21:46:56  <jeremyrubin> is that something anyone else would like? test.py --with-debugger=lldb|gdb?
521 2022-01-20T21:48:01  <sipa> That sounds useful. But how do you control which node gets debugged?
522 2022-01-20T21:51:53  *** sudoforge <sudoforge!~sudoforge@wireguard/tunneler/sudoforge> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
523 2022-01-20T21:58:08  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
524 2022-01-20T21:58:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] thonkle opened pull request #24116: Document listening on port 0 assigns a random unused port (master...doc-port-0) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24116
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528 2022-01-20T22:02:50  <jeremyrubin> sipa: whichever one crashes i guess...
529 2022-01-20T22:02:55  <jeremyrubin> but good point
530 2022-01-20T22:03:46  <sipa> Ah, it only attaches a debugger when a node crashes? That's also useful. And perhaps enough... just add an assert(false) in the codebase where you want to debug.
531 2022-01-20T22:04:02  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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533 2022-01-20T22:08:32  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@node-1w7jr9yi65te66oclonkh96li.ipv6.telus.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
534 2022-01-20T22:16:48  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
535 2022-01-20T22:16:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mzumsande opened pull request #24117: index: make indices robust against init aborts (master...202201_index_startup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24117
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537 2022-01-20T22:19:35  <jeremyrubin> sipa: well you need to attach before it crashes I guess? but i spose it's not too bad to run test once, report which node *did* crash fail, and run again?
538 2022-01-20T22:19:48  <jeremyrubin> (run again specifying to attach that one
539 2022-01-20T22:21:06  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
540 2022-01-20T22:21:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Xekyo opened pull request #24118: Add 'sweep' RPC (master...sweep-wallet-rpc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24118
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550 2022-01-20T23:10:54  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
551 2022-01-20T23:10:54  <bitcoin-git> [gui] jonatack opened pull request #526: Add address relay/processed/rate-limited fields to peer details (master...add-addr-fields-to-peer-details) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/526
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553 2022-01-20T23:10:58  <sugarpuff_> hi guys, I realize this question might not be considered "development" per se, but it is development related: right now the developers (y'all) are under legal attack by Craig Wright. Afaict, Wright is being used a new means of attack against Bitcoin. The last time I witnessed such a serious attack was BitcoinXT, except this time I think the threat is even greater.
554 2022-01-20T23:11:00  <sugarpuff_> My question is: what are the bitcoin developers doing (other than trying to switch to pseudonymous development) to defend against this? I have seen gmaxwell repeatedly call Wright a fraud. If Maxwell actually believes this, then why is he avoiding the legal challenge? I think Bitcoin could lose if this sort of approach (of running away from Wright) continues.
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567 2022-01-20T23:51:44  <prayank> sugarpuff_: 1. Legal issues are handled by people involved in different ways. Recently few organizations and individuals have tried to support the devs. 2.  Greg Maxwell does not directly contribute to Bitcoin anymore as shared by him multiple times. He can respond to your questions on reddit as they are not related to Bitcoin Core. 3. Bitcoin is fine and CSW or any such scammers will not be able to do much. There was a tweet thread which clearl
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571 2022-01-20T23:56:00  <michaelfolkson> sugarpuff_: For more details on a Bitcoin Legal Defense fund feel free to email the address contained in this https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019741.html
572 2022-01-20T23:56:20  <michaelfolkson> "If you have questions or concerns, you can email info at bitcoindefensefund.org. Will share more information in the near future."
573 2022-01-20T23:56:40  <michaelfolkson> Other than that don't think there's anything to discuss here
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