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 25 2022-01-28T01:32:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] pg156 opened pull request #24183: test: use MiniWallet for mempool_updatefromblock.py (master...mempool-updatefromblock-miniwallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24183
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 52 2022-01-28T03:19:04  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ZhiqingQu opened pull request #24184: Update init.cpp (master...susanBranch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24184
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 69 2022-01-28T05:22:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] PastaPastaPasta opened pull request #24185: refactor: only use explicit reinterpret/const casts, not implicit (master...explicit-reinterpret-cast) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24185
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 73 2022-01-28T05:53:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #24184: Update init.cpp (master...susanBranch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24184
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115 2022-01-28T06:38:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 6 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/196b4599201d...a4f7c41271ed
116 2022-01-28T06:38:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 446e73c fanquake: build: use macOS 11 SDK (Xcode 12.2)
117 2022-01-28T06:38:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6fe5516 fanquake: contrib: support arm64 darwin in security checks
118 2022-01-28T06:38:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ca47f2e fanquake: guix: use autoconf 2.71
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121 2022-01-28T06:38:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #21851: release: support cross-compiling for arm64-apple-darwin (master...m1_support_depends) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21851
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128 2022-01-28T07:32:25  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #24187: Followups for getdeploymentinfo (master...202201-getdepinfo-extra) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24187
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136 2022-01-28T07:47:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 7 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/a4f7c41271ed...d4e92d843650
137 2022-01-28T07:47:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fd82613 Anthony Towns: rpc: move softfork info from getblockchaininfo to getdeploymentinfo
138 2022-01-28T07:47:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7f15c18 Anthony Towns: rpc: getdeploymentinfo: allow specifying a blockhash other than tip
139 2022-01-28T07:47:34  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a7469bc Anthony Towns: rpc: getdeploymentinfo: change stats to always refer to current period
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142 2022-01-28T07:47:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23508: Add getdeploymentinfo RPC (master...202111-getforkinfo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23508
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148 2022-01-28T08:10:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24189: refactor: [bdb] Make SafeDbt Span-like (master...2201-bdbSpan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24189
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155 2022-01-28T08:42:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24189: refactor: [bdb] Make SafeDbt Span-like (master...2201-bdbSpan) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24189
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162 2022-01-28T09:13:19  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
163 2022-01-28T09:13:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors closed pull request #22016: rpc: add period_start to version bits statistics (master...2021/05/versionbits_period_start) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22016
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166 2022-01-28T09:33:32  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
167 2022-01-28T09:33:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24190: test: Fix sanitizer suppresions in streams_tests (master...2201-ts) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24190
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185 2022-01-28T11:13:23  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
186 2022-01-28T11:13:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24191: refactor: Make MessageBoxFlags enum underlying type unsigned (master...2201-nouiInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24191
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197 2022-01-28T11:52:48  <michaelfolkson> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic Taproot support in the wallet (open PRs, latest thinking)
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200 2022-01-28T12:09:43  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
201 2022-01-28T12:09:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24192: test: Fix feature_init intermittent issues (master...2201-testFI) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24192
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205 2022-01-28T12:18:54  <stickies-v> Is this the right place to ask for a CI retrigger? If so, could someone please restart #24098 - the fuzzer timed out but it seems unrelated to the PR.
206 2022-01-28T12:18:56  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24098 | rest: Use query parameters to control resource loading by stickies-v · Pull Request #24098 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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211 2022-01-28T13:02:33  <_aj_> seems like CI's a bit broken, both fuzzer timeouts and "AssertionError: Fee of 0.00003160 BTC too high! (Should be 0.00003130 BTC)" error?
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219 2022-01-28T13:28:21  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
220 2022-01-28T13:28:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24194: refactor: Use unsigned ignore() consistently (master...2201-streamIgnore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24194
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222 2022-01-28T13:32:36  <jonatack> _aj_: yes (i think MarcoFalke opened a fix for the fuzzer timeout, and i opened an issue for the fee too high one)
223 2022-01-28T13:33:10  <jonatack> #24179
224 2022-01-28T13:33:11  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24179 | fuzz: Speed up script fuzz target by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #24179 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
225 2022-01-28T13:33:53  <jonatack> and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24151
226 2022-01-28T13:36:09  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
227 2022-01-28T13:36:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24194: refactor: Use unsigned ignore() consistently (master...2201-streamIgnore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24194
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236 2022-01-28T14:07:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack closed pull request #24106: policy: treat P2TR outputs with invalid x-only pubkey as non-standard (master...202201-policy-treat_p2tr_with_invalid_xpubkey_as_nonstandard) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24106
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240 2022-01-28T14:17:37  *** vysn <vysn!~vysn@user/vysn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
241 2022-01-28T14:18:52  *** Guest41 <Guest41!~Guest41@213.196.96.242> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
242 2022-01-28T14:18:54  <Guest41> Бьн
243 2022-01-28T14:19:15  <Guest41> Hello
244 2022-01-28T14:19:22  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@187.183.47.88> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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248 2022-01-28T14:27:57  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d4e92d843650...1245c62fef1d
249 2022-01-28T14:27:57  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master faa75fa MarcoFalke: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in bitcoin-tx
250 2022-01-28T14:27:57  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1245c62 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24139: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in bitcoin-tx...
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253 2022-01-28T14:28:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24139: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in bitcoin-tx (master...2201-utilTxOverflow) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24139
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264 2022-01-28T14:57:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mzumsande opened pull request #24195: test: Fix failfast option for functional test runner (master...202201_testrunner_fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24195
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271 2022-01-28T15:56:58  <sdaftuar> I'm seeing repeated ci timeouts in #20726, for the ci job "[fuzzer,address,undefined,integer, no depends]". i've tried re-running the job several times, but no luck -- each time it still times out.  anyone have ideas about how to get this to complete?
272 2022-01-28T15:57:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20726 | p2p: Add DISABLETX message for negotiating block-relay-only connections by sdaftuar · Pull Request #20726 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
273 2022-01-28T16:01:02  <lightlike> sdaftuar: There is #24179 which aims to fix the fuzzer timeouts (which appear all over the place).
274 2022-01-28T16:01:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24179 | fuzz: Speed up script fuzz target by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #24179 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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276 2022-01-28T16:02:36  <sdaftuar> ah, thank you! perhaps i'll just wait for that pr to get merged, and then restart the job
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280 2022-01-28T16:39:03  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24196: Fix integer sanitizer suppressions in validation.cpp (master...2201-valInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24196
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297 2022-01-28T18:12:49  <darosior> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic labels for ranged descriptors
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318 2022-01-28T18:58:54  <michaelfolkson> Please do darosior's topic first achow101, I'm just catching up
319 2022-01-28T19:00:36  <achow101> #startmeeting
320 2022-01-28T19:00:37  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Fri Jan 28 19:00:36 2022 UTC.  The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
321 2022-01-28T19:00:37  <core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
322 2022-01-28T19:00:47  <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik
323 2022-01-28T19:00:47  <achow101> petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild
324 2022-01-28T19:01:04  <michaelfolkson> hi
325 2022-01-28T19:01:06  *** cryptapus <cryptapus!~cryptapus@user/cryptapus> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
326 2022-01-28T19:01:15  <darosior> hi
327 2022-01-28T19:01:32  *** cryptapus <cryptapus!~cryptapus@user/cryptapus> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
328 2022-01-28T19:01:42  <achow101> There's one pre-proposed meeting topic, any others people want to add?
329 2022-01-28T19:01:48  <sipa> hi
330 2022-01-28T19:01:55  <darosior> Hmm maybe i failed to add mine?
331 2022-01-28T19:02:12  <michaelfolkson> [18:12:49]  <darosior> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic labels for ranged descriptors
332 2022-01-28T19:02:16  <achow101> oops, 2 pre-proposed topics
333 2022-01-28T19:02:45  <achow101> #topic labels for ranged descriptors (darosior)
334 2022-01-28T19:02:45  <core-meetingbot`> topic: labels for ranged descriptors (darosior)
335 2022-01-28T19:02:48  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:1c0a:deda:9648:d9a6> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
336 2022-01-28T19:02:49  <laanwj> hi
337 2022-01-28T19:03:11  <darosior> So as part of the Miniscript work, i tested the branch against my application (which uses Miniscript internally and the descriptor wallet as watchonly to track 2 main descriptors) and discovered that labels are deactivated for range descriptors.
338 2022-01-28T19:03:12  <darosior> However labels are pretty useful to differentiate the coins when you have multiple descriptors on the same watchonly wallet (which i think is the intent?). Typically for triage in the `listsinceblock` or `listunspent` results: i think i'm just an instance and they are useful as well.
339 2022-01-28T19:03:12  <darosior> So i wondered what people here thought about enabling the same features to the descriptor level, to not have to add all addresses to the address book in advance (which i guessed is the reason to disable them for range descriptors in the first place?). Or if something else than labels was envisioned to enable the same features.
340 2022-01-28T19:03:46  <darosior> s/and they are useful as well/ and they are useful as well to others/
341 2022-01-28T19:04:02  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
342 2022-01-28T19:04:29  <achow101> the reason that labels were not implemented originally was because it seemed odd to me that someone would want to assign the same label to all addresses generated by a descriptor
343 2022-01-28T19:04:32  <sipa> What are you thinking of, something like a label template on the descriptor, with say a %i in it that gets replaced by the index?
344 2022-01-28T19:04:38  <sipa> Or just the same label for everything?
345 2022-01-28T19:04:57  <achow101> and also I think there was some complexity with applying labels to addresses that did not exist yet
346 2022-01-28T19:05:18  <darosior> The same label for any address derived for this descriptor. Something to say "this received coin is for this descriptor"
347 2022-01-28T19:05:34  *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
348 2022-01-28T19:06:40  <achow101> if you think it's something people will use, go for it
349 2022-01-28T19:06:54  <michaelfolkson> Sorry for the ELI5 but by label do you mean the subscripts of Miniscript?
350 2022-01-28T19:07:07  <darosior> No i mean a metadata to identify a descriptor
351 2022-01-28T19:07:28  <darosior> Could just add the descriptor itself to the result, i guess, although i'd to think how a client of the API would manage that
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353 2022-01-28T19:07:41  <sipa> No, label, as in the setlabel RPC.
354 2022-01-28T19:07:47  <sipa> and getaddressesbylabel
355 2022-01-28T19:07:48  <michaelfolkson> Oh ok
356 2022-01-28T19:08:21  <darosior> Ok, thanks. It was mainly to know if there were prior discussions on this topic. Guess i'm done :)
357 2022-01-28T19:08:38  <achow101> I'm not sure I understand the use case, but I am ambivalent on this
358 2022-01-28T19:09:01  <achow101> #topic Taproot support in the wallet (open PRs, latest thinking) (michaelfolkson)
359 2022-01-28T19:09:02  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Taproot support in the wallet (open PRs, latest thinking) (michaelfolkson)
360 2022-01-28T19:09:03  <sipa> Likewise.
361 2022-01-28T19:09:05  <darosior> I can describe the motivation better in an issue, if that's helpful
362 2022-01-28T19:09:20  <achow101> darosior: please do
363 2022-01-28T19:09:49  <michaelfolkson> Ok.. so was just looking over the Taproot related PRs. #22558 is marked as high prio
364 2022-01-28T19:10:20  *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
365 2022-01-28T19:10:44  <michaelfolkson> This should be tested in tandem with #24043?
366 2022-01-28T19:11:05  <achow101> they are orthogonal
367 2022-01-28T19:11:06  <michaelfolkson> To do a Taproot multisig you need the Taproot multisig descriptor right?
368 2022-01-28T19:11:26  <michaelfolkson> And that is only introduced in #24043
369 2022-01-28T19:11:29  *** vysn <vysn!~vysn@user/vysn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
370 2022-01-28T19:11:43  <achow101> #22558 is just for the basic taproot fields to actually be able to do any kind of watchonly taproot spend
371 2022-01-28T19:12:14  <michaelfolkson> But to be passing around Taproot multisig PSBTs you need to have setup a Taproot multisig.... right?
372 2022-01-28T19:12:31  <sipa> the multisig part is in 24043
373 2022-01-28T19:12:31  <achow101> psbt is for more than just multisigs
374 2022-01-28T19:12:38  <sipa> the taproot psbt part is in 22558
375 2022-01-28T19:12:46  <sipa> if you want taproot multisig psbt, then you indeed need both
376 2022-01-28T19:12:47  <achow101> #22558 is needed to work with HWI for example
377 2022-01-28T19:12:55  <achow101> just to do a single key taproot spend
378 2022-01-28T19:13:32  *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@194.144.47.113> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
379 2022-01-28T19:13:40  <michaelfolkson> Ah ok. So to test #24043 you should be doing a single key taproot spend
380 2022-01-28T19:14:28  <michaelfolkson> And then to test Taproot multisig wait for #24043 or test in tandem with #24043
381 2022-01-28T19:14:40  <achow101> too many 24043's in that sentence
382 2022-01-28T19:14:51  <jonatack> hi
383 2022-01-28T19:15:59  <michaelfolkson> I guess what I'm saying is to get #22558 merged test with a single key Taproot spend
384 2022-01-28T19:16:44  <michaelfolkson> The alternative would be to make both #22558 and #24043 high prio
385 2022-01-28T19:17:13  <michaelfolkson> Ok that makes sense (I think)
386 2022-01-28T19:17:16  <achow101> yes, 22558 can be tested with single key spends
387 2022-01-28T19:17:56  <michaelfolkson> So then moving to #24043
388 2022-01-28T19:18:38  <michaelfolkson> This seems a stopgap to me (which is fine, just testing my understanding)
389 2022-01-28T19:19:17  <michaelfolkson> But presumably longer term a Taproot enabled Miniscript would tell you which 2-of-3 arrangement is most efficient
390 2022-01-28T19:19:45  <sipa> No, that information is implied by miniscript.
391 2022-01-28T19:20:03  <sipa> If you have a miniscript/descriptor, the script is already decided.
392 2022-01-28T19:20:23  <sipa> Which one is most efficient is trivial; the question is which one is applicable.
393 2022-01-28T19:20:50  <sipa> Because using e.g. FROST threshold key as internal taproot key will always be the most efficient possible for any kind of multisig.
394 2022-01-28T19:20:56  <michaelfolkson> So when you say "later replaced with Miniscript based implementation" what are you referring to?
395 2022-01-28T19:21:48  <sipa> That's just an implementation aspect, not something observable.
396 2022-01-28T19:21:50  <michaelfolkson> I see as a descriptor as a one to one mapping with script. But Miniscript is a one to many mapping to script depending on the subscripts
397 2022-01-28T19:22:04  <sipa> What are subscripts?
398 2022-01-28T19:22:17  <michaelfolkson> Like the _a etc
399 2022-01-28T19:22:21  <sipa> No, miniscript is a 1-to-1 mapping with (a subset of) script.
400 2022-01-28T19:22:35  <michaelfolkson> Sorry shouldn't say sub*script*, makes things complicated
401 2022-01-28T19:23:01  <sipa> The functions in miniscript (e.g. "multi_a", "and_v", ...) we call "fragments". if you're looking for terminology.
402 2022-01-28T19:23:42  <sipa> Let me try to explain what that sentence was about, unless someone has something else to discuss?
403 2022-01-28T19:24:34  <sipa> achow101?
404 2022-01-28T19:24:43  <michaelfolkson> There aren't any other topics
405 2022-01-28T19:25:01  <achow101> I don't have any topics
406 2022-01-28T19:25:19  <sipa> Ok, so, currently the bitcoin core codebase doesn't have miniscript implemented.
407 2022-01-28T19:25:56  <sipa> Miniscript covers a bunch of different things, but it at least is sort of an extension of descriptors, as well as generic signing support for miniscript-compatible scripts, and a few other things.
408 2022-01-28T19:26:40  <sipa> In the long term, with the miniscript codebase integrated into bitcoin core, a significant part of the logic around descriptors and signing can be handled by miniscript, which does lots of things generically.
409 2022-01-28T19:26:56  <michaelfolkson> I'm thinking eventually you could almost ditch the term "descriptors" entirely. Everything would be Miniscript
410 2022-01-28T19:27:17  <sipa> I very strongly hope it's the other way around.
411 2022-01-28T19:27:24  <sipa> Miniscript is the name of research project, it's not something "visible".
412 2022-01-28T19:27:39  <sipa> The part that is visible are what it enables in descriptors.
413 2022-01-28T19:27:47  <michaelfolkson> Ok whatever, but it would all be one thing under one name
414 2022-01-28T19:27:54  <sipa> Definitely.
415 2022-01-28T19:28:34  <michaelfolkson> So this new multi_a descriptor would eventually be ditched right?
416 2022-01-28T19:28:49  <sipa> No?
417 2022-01-28T19:28:58  <sipa> In favor of what?
418 2022-01-28T19:29:44  <michaelfolkson> A Miniscript equivalent that would give you the script for n-of-n which is optimal
419 2022-01-28T19:30:15  <michaelfolkson> You say in the PR n-of-n isn't optimal, but k-of-n (k<n) is optimal
420 2022-01-28T19:30:18  <sipa> Once we add support for a particular descriptor we cannot remove it, as it'd break wallets that have such a descriptor.
421 2022-01-28T19:30:36  <sipa> michaelfolkson: Yes, and that miniscript equivalent would be called multi_a, which behaves exactly the same as the one we have now.
422 2022-01-28T19:30:55  <sipa> Only it'd be done via the miniscript codebase, instead of a special-case inside the descriptor codebase.
423 2022-01-28T19:31:05  <sipa> But as a user you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
424 2022-01-28T19:31:30  <michaelfolkson> There would be multi_a for k-of-n and say a multi_b for n-of-n?
425 2022-01-28T19:31:39  <sipa> For example, yes.
426 2022-01-28T19:31:59  <michaelfolkson> Ok gotcha
427 2022-01-28T19:32:21  <michaelfolkson> The wallet estimating witness size incorrectly will be addressed in follow up PR?
428 2022-01-28T19:32:39  <sipa> Or perhaps and_v(v:pk(A),v:pk(B),...,pk(Z)).
429 2022-01-28T19:33:04  <sipa> Which is more in line with how miniscript treats the optimal n-of-n script.
430 2022-01-28T19:33:27  <sipa> Size estimation is a hard question, I don't really have a good solution.
431 2022-01-28T19:33:43  <sipa> You can't in general predict which branch signers will be using.
432 2022-01-28T19:34:04  <sipa> Perhaps something where you can pass to the fundraw* RPC which keys/signers are available.
433 2022-01-28T19:34:13  <sipa> I think people have discussed something like that in the past.
434 2022-01-28T19:34:29  <michaelfolkson> Doesn't Miniscript give you the most efficient option (and hence can estimate the witness sizes of the various spending paths)?
435 2022-01-28T19:34:50  <michaelfolkson> Solved by Miniscript (if we can get that merged)
436 2022-01-28T19:34:51  <sipa> No.
437 2022-01-28T19:35:14  <sipa> Miniscript is just a way of writing scripts in a different way that allows more generic reasoning over them.
438 2022-01-28T19:35:30  <sipa> You're talking about the miniscript policy compiler, which is one application of the things you can do with miniscript.
439 2022-01-28T19:35:32  <Murch> hi
440 2022-01-28T19:35:47  <sipa> But that's not something I'm expecting would be integrated into Bitcoin Core.
441 2022-01-28T19:36:19  <sipa> It's not estimating witness sizes that's hard - miniscript can do that, as can our current codebase.
442 2022-01-28T19:36:20  <michaelfolkson> Ok gotcha. You will be able to do that external to Core but Core won't have access to the compiler (necessarily)
443 2022-01-28T19:36:31  <sipa> The difficulty is making the code know which keys are available, so it knows which branch to pick.
444 2022-01-28T19:36:54  <sipa> That's just a logistic issue.
445 2022-01-28T19:37:32  <michaelfolkson> Ok final question (thanks btw). I'm assuming all the build stuff that was done for Minisketch will need to be done for Miniscript?
446 2022-01-28T19:38:11  <sipa> nope, nothing
447 2022-01-28T19:38:17  <sipa> because miniscript isn't a separate library
448 2022-01-28T19:38:27  <sipa> it'll just be merged into bitcoin core
449 2022-01-28T19:39:12  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:1c0a:deda:9648:d9a6> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
450 2022-01-28T19:39:13  <michaelfolkson> By separate library you just mean separate repo...?
451 2022-01-28T19:39:30  <sipa> No.
452 2022-01-28T19:39:49  <sipa> Minisketch is a library you build separately, with an API, you can build applications against, ...
453 2022-01-28T19:40:05  <sipa> Miniscript is just a bunch of source files which are mostly intended to be integrated into Bitcoin Core.
454 2022-01-28T19:40:33  <sipa> The future of the repository after that point is unclear; perhaps we keep it just for the compiler/website.
455 2022-01-28T19:40:44  <michaelfolkson> There will be no Miniscript "API" or applications built using the Miniscript "library"?
456 2022-01-28T19:40:44  <sipa> Perhaps people want to spend time on actually turning the miniscript codebase into a library that's independently usable, ...
457 2022-01-28T19:41:00  <michaelfolkson> Oh ok you've answered that
458 2022-01-28T19:41:04  <sipa> That's right. It needs Bitcoin Core right now.
459 2022-01-28T19:41:18  <michaelfolkson> Ok thanks, all my questions
460 2022-01-28T19:41:42  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
461 2022-01-28T19:42:09  <achow101> any other topics?
462 2022-01-28T19:43:10  <achow101> #endmeeting
463 2022-01-28T19:43:10  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
464 2022-01-28T19:43:10  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Fri Jan 28 19:43:10 2022 UTC.
465 2022-01-28T19:43:10  <core-meetingbot`> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-01-28-19.00.moin.txt
466 2022-01-28T19:44:10  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:1c0a:deda:9648:d9a6> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
467 2022-01-28T19:44:54  <sipa> michaelfolkson: Not sure how clear that is, but what is shown/entered on my miniscript site (https://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript/) is two very different languages. They look similar which may make it confusing, but their purpose is completely different. One is the policy language, which is for writing "under what conditions should my output be spendable". The other is miniscript (which is a 1-to-1 mapping with Bitcoin Script, but a bit more readable). The
468 2022-01-28T19:44:55  <sipa> policy compiler complies policy to miniscript, by finding out the most efficient miniscript way of doing what you want, specified by the policy.
469 2022-01-28T19:46:56  <sipa> The thing that would be integrated into Bitcoin Core is the miniscript side of things, i.e., the output of the policy compiler if that's what you use to construct it.
470 2022-01-28T19:47:26  *** ZeroMaster_ <ZeroMaster_!~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
471 2022-01-28T19:47:48  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
472 2022-01-28T19:50:16  <michaelfolkson> sipa: Right, I knew this, I was forgetting all the clever, analysis stuff happens with the compiler between Policy and Miniscript
473 2022-01-28T19:50:50  <michaelfolkson> And Core doesn't have access to it
474 2022-01-28T19:52:04  <sipa> I mean, it could... but there is no need for it. E.g. we could have a bitcoin-miniscript-compiler tool, or a "compileminiscript" RPC. But I doubt we'll want to put all that functionality inside bitcoin core, as it can be done externally just as well.
475 2022-01-28T19:52:23  <michaelfolkson> The new multi_a descriptor would be Taproot'd Miniscript and multi (Taproot'd Policy) would compile down to multi_a (Taproot'd Miniscript)
476 2022-01-28T19:52:42  <sipa> Right.
477 2022-01-28T19:52:58  <michaelfolkson> Or compile down to multi_b (Taproot'd Miniscript) if you were doing n-of-n
478 2022-01-28T19:53:02  <sipa> Once we have a taproot-enabled miniscript definition and compiler for it.
479 2022-01-28T19:55:17  <michaelfolkson> I think Luke said on the PR he didn't like the tag (_a) and could we avoid it. But Miniscript has a number of tags, it is normal from a Miniscript perspective
480 2022-01-28T19:55:50  <sipa> Yeah, and it's understandable, because right now the _a is completely redundant.
481 2022-01-28T19:56:17  <sipa> You can only use multi_a inside tr(), and you can only use multi outside tr().
482 2022-01-28T19:56:48  <michaelfolkson> Tag or fragment? I'm not sure on terminology. The literal (_a) is a tag? And the segment of Miniscript would be a fragment?
483 2022-01-28T19:56:55  <sipa> suffix
484 2022-01-28T19:57:05  <sipa> the fragment is the whole name (multi_a)
485 2022-01-28T19:57:16  <michaelfolkson> Ok
486 2022-01-28T19:58:13  <sipa> The idea is that the suffces like _a and wrappers (like the "v:" prefix) don't modify the policy implemented by the script.
487 2022-01-28T19:58:32  <sipa> So if you just want to get an idea of "what does this script allow", you just ignore them.
488 2022-01-28T19:58:49  <sipa> But they are relevant for specifying the actual script opcodes, and possibly its efficiency.
489 2022-01-28T20:02:38  <michaelfolkson> [19:52:04]  <sipa> I mean, it could... but there is no need for it. E.g. we could have a bitcoin-miniscript-compiler tool, or a "compileminiscript" RPC. But I doubt we'll want to put all that functionality inside bitcoin core, as it can be done externally just as well.
490 2022-01-28T20:02:45  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
491 2022-01-28T20:02:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] jonatack opened pull request #24197: Replace lock with thread safety annotation in CBlockTreeDB::LoadBlockIndexGuts() (master...replace-lock-with-annotation-in-LoadBlockIndexGuts) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24197
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493 2022-01-28T20:03:06  <michaelfolkson> We can't assess the witness size for script path spends that would be a reason
494 2022-01-28T20:03:24  <sipa> What? No, that's unrelated.
495 2022-01-28T20:03:32  <sipa> Miniscript allows reasoning over witness sizes.
496 2022-01-28T20:03:48  <sipa> The compiler uses that functionality to figure out the optimal script for a given policy.
497 2022-01-28T20:04:17  <sipa> But you don't need the compiler to know the witness size for a miniscript.
498 2022-01-28T20:04:58  *** ZeroMaster <ZeroMaster!~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
499 2022-01-28T20:06:01  <sipa> The only thing you need to compiler for is constructing miniscripts in a somewhat more user-friendly way.
500 2022-01-28T20:06:19  <sipa> doing things with the resulting miniscript doesn't need to compiler
501 2022-01-28T20:07:46  <michaelfolkson> The compiler will tell you what Miniscript is most efficient based on the size of witnesses that need to be provided? Hence it has to be able to assess the witness size that will be needed to spend from that Miniscript?
502 2022-01-28T20:08:08  <sipa> Yes.
503 2022-01-28T20:08:27  <sipa> It uses the miniscript codebase to figure out which script is most efficient.
504 2022-01-28T20:08:31  <michaelfolkson> So as a result the compiler could assess the witness size for a script path spend
505 2022-01-28T20:08:46  <michaelfolkson> And solve the problem that I quoted you?
506 2022-01-28T20:08:46  <sipa> But the logic for determining witness sizes is in miniscript itself - so it's available to whatever uses it.
507 2022-01-28T20:09:03  <sipa> There is no problem to be solved.
508 2022-01-28T20:09:18  <sipa> Our current codebase in bitcoin core can already compute witness sizes.
509 2022-01-28T20:09:34  <sipa> Once we integrate miniscript, it can do that too for the new scripts supported by miniscript.
510 2022-01-28T20:10:20  <sipa> The "problem" is just logistical... at signing time you may not know which signers are available, and that affects which satisfaction of a script is available.
511 2022-01-28T20:11:01  <michaelfolkson> "Wallet code will for now estimate witness size incorrectly for script path spends" <- This is solved by merging Miniscript being merged into Core. It doesn't need access to the Policy -> Miniscript compiler to solve this problem
512 2022-01-28T20:11:19  <sipa> No, that problem is completely unrelated.
513 2022-01-28T20:11:32  <sipa> It's just because there is no way to tell the wallet which signers are available, for the third time.
514 2022-01-28T20:11:45  <sipa> It's not that it can't compute it.
515 2022-01-28T20:11:55  <sipa> It's that it doesn't know, because there is no way to tell it.
516 2022-01-28T20:12:22  <michaelfolkson> Ok sorry, I'll read this over again
517 2022-01-28T20:13:09  <sipa> Imagine you have an output that can be spent by either A and B signing, or by C signing.
518 2022-01-28T20:13:21  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@187.183.47.88> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
519 2022-01-28T20:13:34  <sipa> If C is available, then a witness with 1 signature suffices.
520 2022-01-28T20:13:35  <sipa> If A and B are available, then a witness with 2 signatures is needed.
521 2022-01-28T20:14:09  <sipa> There is no way to tell fundrawtransaction etc which of these two options is going to be used, and no way to give it the information to infer it.
522 2022-01-28T20:14:24  <sipa> So it always assumes that whatever is cheapest/smallest will be used.
523 2022-01-28T20:14:36  <sipa> This problem is exacerbated by miniscript, but not unique to it.
524 2022-01-28T20:16:40  <michaelfolkson> fundrawtransaction doesn't know which option isn't going to be used and neither does Policy, Miniscript or the compiler. But the compiler knows the witness size needed to spend from each option
525 2022-01-28T20:17:14  <sipa> Yes, and so does Miniscript, and our codebase. If it knew what option was going to be used, it could compute the expected witness size.
526 2022-01-28T20:17:27  <michaelfolkson> Hence fundrawtransaction would want to say to the compiler "Hey this option is being used. What's the witness size needed to spend from this option?"
527 2022-01-28T20:17:29  <sipa> But it currently has no way of knowing.
528 2022-01-28T20:17:42  <sipa> This has nothing to do with the compiler!
529 2022-01-28T20:17:46  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@187.183.47.88> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
530 2022-01-28T20:17:49  <sipa> All this information can be inferred from the script itself.
531 2022-01-28T20:18:33  <sipa> The compiler is for constructing scripts.
532 2022-01-28T20:18:44  <sipa> If you already have a script, the compiler isn't relevant.
533 2022-01-28T20:20:22  <michaelfolkson> Ok I think I get it, fundrawtransaction can easily know what the witness size to spend from an option is but it doesn't know which option will be used ahead of time
534 2022-01-28T20:21:10  <michaelfolkson> Sorry :)
535 2022-01-28T20:22:36  *** lukedashjr <lukedashjr!~luke-jr@user/luke-jr> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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543 2022-01-28T20:43:19  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
544 2022-01-28T20:43:20  <bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #526: Add address relay/processed/rate-limited fields to peer details (master...add-addr-fields-to-peer-details) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/526
545 2022-01-28T20:43:20  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
546 2022-01-28T20:43:28  *** lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr
547 2022-01-28T20:43:40  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
548 2022-01-28T20:43:41  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1245c62fef1d...5b4b8f76f3ae
549 2022-01-28T20:43:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a465a66 Jon Atack: gui: add "Address Relay" (m_addr_relay_enabled) to peer details
550 2022-01-28T20:43:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 19623d3 Jon Atack: gui: add "Addresses Processed" (m_addr_processed) to peer details
551 2022-01-28T20:43:41  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6cd132d Jon Atack: gui: add "Addresses Rate-Limited" (m_addr_rate_limited) to peer details
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567 2022-01-28T22:04:03  <mutatrum> Where do the drahtbot guix build end up? I want to test #24115 on a Raspberry.
568 2022-01-28T22:04:49  *** Alina-malina <Alina-malina!~Alina-mal@user/alina-malina> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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570 2022-01-28T22:07:48  <sipa> It'll post the results when it's done.
571 2022-01-28T22:07:48  <sipa> I don't know when it'll run.
572 2022-01-28T22:08:08  <sipa> I have a build for you, if you want.
573 2022-01-28T22:08:49  <sipa> (usual risks about trusting someone else's binaries apply, obviously)
574 2022-01-28T22:09:14  *** arythmetic <arythmetic!~arythmeti@2607:fea8:85c1:db00:ec87:c9ae:e756:6611> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
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576 2022-01-28T22:12:00  <mutatrum> Thanks, I'll wait. Pi is not running at the moment anyways.
577 2022-01-28T22:12:33  <sipa> I can confirm that the binary does have SHA2 ARM instructions in it.
578 2022-01-28T22:14:45  <mutatrum> Good! I ran IBD on the Rock Pi 4, took 48 hours to block 700.000. Now running master for comparison.
579 2022-01-28T22:17:09  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:1c0a:deda:9648:d9a6> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
580 2022-01-28T22:18:37  *** arythmetic <arythmetic!~arythmeti@2607:fea8:85c1:db00:f1f3:3e:61e3:7b96> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
581 2022-01-28T22:18:46  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
582 2022-01-28T22:18:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #24198: wallet, rpc: add wtxid in WalletTxToJSON (master...2022-01-listtransactions-wtxid) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24198
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586 2022-01-28T22:24:00  <mutatrum> 65 hours*
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