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182022-02-05T01:52:06 <prayank> Sorry if this looks offtopic because of link but concept is ontopic. After working on several privacy related PRs in Core and then WW2 I realized core is not that bad with no marketing and coinjoin. Privacy is expressing yourself selectively. Everything is public on Bitcoin but if user wants to share links of transactions with less people that is privacy.
192022-02-05T01:52:10 <prayank> Coin Control is important and should always remain part of bitcoin wallets that care about privacy. If UX needs to be improved there can be a checkbox in settings to disable it. Or if wallet has no coin control but cluster control, removing it will not reduce errors it will change nature of errors and create new issues.
202022-02-05T01:53:53 <sipa> Is this just a shower thought?
212022-02-05T01:54:04 <sipa> I'm not sure what you're asking or trying to say.
222022-02-05T01:54:52 <prayank> Forgot the reason for it being OT which was this video that proves you cannot rely on automation to reduce errors: https://youtu.be/0cS1SMptlnQ
232022-02-05T01:55:03 <prayank> sipa: context: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/sjov2h/comment/hvn4zfg/
242022-02-05T01:57:33 <sipa> It does seem more appropriate for reddit.
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262022-02-05T01:59:52 <prayank> I hope people understand "coin selection algo" there because last I posted something there was no reesponse that helped in anything or maybe it involved Luke Dashjr
272022-02-05T02:00:23 <sipa> I still have no idea what you're trying to say or ask.
282022-02-05T02:01:11 <prayank> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rrp90i/address_reuse_is_bad_for_privacy/
292022-02-05T02:01:37 <prayank> PR #22693
302022-02-05T02:01:39 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22693 | RPC/Wallet: Add "use_txids" to output of getaddressinfo by luke-jr · Pull Request #22693 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
312022-02-05T02:02:02 <sipa> You're rambling.
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332022-02-05T02:02:39 <prayank> sipa: no I am answering your questions with links
342022-02-05T02:03:09 <sipa> Yes, address reuse is bad, why do you mention that now, here?
352022-02-05T02:03:10 <sipa> What about that PR, what do you want someone to do?
362022-02-05T02:03:15 <sipa> What about that reddit thread?
372022-02-05T02:03:26 <sipa> You're mentioning a bunch of vaguely-related things, but I have no clue what your point is.
382022-02-05T02:03:27 <prayank> sipa: because context was 'reddit'
392022-02-05T02:03:59 <prayank> posting on reddit does not help when its related to core
402022-02-05T02:04:02 <prayank> I will post here
412022-02-05T02:04:40 <sipa> Ok, you say "help", help with what? What are you trying to say?
422022-02-05T02:05:23 <prayank> I never said help
432022-02-05T02:05:54 <sipa> You literally did, 4 lines above "posting on reddit does not help when its related to core"
442022-02-05T02:06:15 <prayank> in the first 2 messages
452022-02-05T02:06:24 <sipa> So, again, what is your point
462022-02-05T02:07:13 <prayank> these are thoughts about coin selection algo and privacy which could have been helpful but it seems you don't like some people writing here
472022-02-05T02:07:48 <sipa> Share them on twitter or reddit or something, if they're just shower thoughts.
482022-02-05T02:08:20 <prayank> they are not shower thoughts and better than lot of conversation in this channel
492022-02-05T02:08:43 <sipa> Then I still don't know what your point is.
502022-02-05T02:11:21 <prayank> sipa: there must be a reasons I shared here? I dont get likes, retweets here. You want developers to discuss things on twitter or reddit when its not required or helps in anything?
512022-02-05T02:13:20 <sipa> Probably. I don't know what the reason is you mention these things here.
522022-02-05T02:13:41 <sipa> You're at best preaching to the choir.
532022-02-05T02:13:59 <prayank> sipa: coin selection, privacy and my involvement with these topics
542022-02-05T02:15:08 <sipa> Yes, but what do you want to say about them?
552022-02-05T02:15:26 <sipa> If you have thoughts on improving them, concretely, in bitcoin core, and want to work on that, by all means!
562022-02-05T02:15:46 <sipa> But you're just... mentioning vaguely related stuff and I don't know what your point is.
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602022-02-05T02:18:54 <sipa> Are you saying people should work on something? That this PR you linked to deserves attention? That address reuse is bad (yes, it is, but what do you want to do about it?)
612022-02-05T02:21:09 <sipa> So again, if you actually have a topic related to this codebase, go ahead. But otherwise, please take it elsewhere.
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632022-02-05T02:29:14 <prayank> sipa: this was a topic related to core and I will share such things in future as well (not elsewhere). We can do these arguments with lot of people but we don't. You call offtopic altcoins related post being edited on stackexchange as policing, you call people watching sports as dumb but still should be allowed, you think energy can be used for anything and does not need policing, you work on a protocol which is censorship resi
642022-02-05T02:29:15 <prayank> stant but want to stop someone from writing because you don't like it?
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672022-02-05T02:33:43 <Murch> Well, that was confusing
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712022-02-05T02:39:25 <prayank> Murch: context: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/105375/103136 and https://i.imgur.com/ATdqCVW.jpg
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742022-02-05T02:59:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b2a8371913a8...372cb6c18642
752022-02-05T02:59:01 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 824e1ff Ryan Ofsky: bench: Represents paths with fs::path instead of std::string
762022-02-05T02:59:02 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 372cb6c fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24252: bench: Represent paths with fs::path instead ...
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792022-02-05T02:59:18 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24252: bench: Represent paths with fs::path instead of std::string (master...pr/bp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24252
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812022-02-05T03:00:13 <Murch> How is that related to coin control? o.0
822022-02-05T03:03:05 <Murch> I have read your chat messages four times now, but I don't understand how the things you wrote connect. That's the thing that is confusing. You seem to be very concerned about something, but I cannot tell what your topic is. It seems to have something to do with allowing people to pick their own inputs at first, but then you mention not getting support on Reddit, and a question about hardware wallets going out of business.
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842022-02-05T03:04:31 <prayank> Murch: You said its confusing and not "coin control" so I assumed the part about stackexchange : https://bitcoin-irc.chaincode.com/bitcoin-core-dev/2022-02-05#774608;
852022-02-05T03:04:32 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/774608 | HTTP Error 404: Not Found
862022-02-05T03:05:11 <Murch> It feels like you have some golden thread per which all of these things are connected, but you're not sharing enough of that for me to follow your thought process, so it just looks like completely unconnected pieces of information that have vaguely something to do with wallet behavior?
872022-02-05T03:05:51 <prayank> Much: Sorry about the confusion give me few minutes I will rephrase my thoughts and maybe it helps
882022-02-05T03:06:19 <Murch> If you want to people to engage with your topic, you might need to put yourself a bit more in the reader's shoes so you actually pick them up where they're at. Unfortunately, most people cannot read minds.
892022-02-05T03:10:12 <Murch> "Coin Control" refers to functionality that lets a user manually pick which UTXOs they use in a transactino.
902022-02-05T03:10:32 <Murch> How does a hardware wallet manufacturer going out of business intersect with that?
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922022-02-05T03:16:06 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] nymkappa opened pull request #24267: If DataDir is a symbolic link, manually follow it (master...bugfix/follow-symlinks) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24267
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942022-02-05T03:19:12 <prayank> Murch: I wrote these 5 points rephrasing my initial messages
952022-02-05T03:19:14 <prayank> 1. In Wasabi Wallet 2 we had pockets/clusters which is group of coins/utxos. It will most probably be removed which I disagree with but it seems that helps UX.
962022-02-05T03:19:15 <prayank> 2. In Bitcoin Core we still have coin control and recently fixed locking coins.
972022-02-05T03:19:15 <prayank> 3. Core has no coinjoin but privacy is not limited to UTXO that comes out of coinjoin process, privacy is what you want to share with world or can be linked with other tx
982022-02-05T03:19:15 <prayank> 4. Private funds of Private coins do not exis in Bitcoin. Everything is public but they may not be aware who did this tx.
992022-02-05T03:19:15 <prayank> 5. Please watch this video: https://youtu.be/0cS1SMptlnQ (I agree with what he said after 36:00
1002022-02-05T03:19:59 <prayank> *or in 4
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1022022-02-05T03:24:02 <Murch> Do you mean to say that we must always allow the human user to be fully in control of a wallet?
1032022-02-05T03:24:16 <Murch> Is that your point?
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1052022-02-05T03:25:33 <prayank> Murch: There are trade offs and both should exist.
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1072022-02-05T03:30:20 <Murch> Okay, so why does that need to be discussed. Do you think someone wants to remove coin control from Bitcoin Core's wallet?
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1112022-02-05T03:41:52 <prayank> Murch: I fear or scared or I dont have the vocabulary for it. It should always remain and if ever we have lot volume in WW2 it should not become the reason to remove it. Also coin selection algos were recently being discussed and changed so I felt its relevant as kind of research. Its not related to consensus so can't even post to mailing list.
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1132022-02-05T03:50:59 <Murch> The coin selection algorithms evolving only changes the automatic behavior, though. I don't see why that would impact Coin Control. I think many developers and users agree that Coin Control is useful, though, and therefore it's unlikely to be in danger of being removed.âI'm not sure what "WW2" would refer to in this context. The meaning I associate with that abbreviation does not seem to fit in this context.
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1152022-02-05T03:53:12 <prayank> Sorry WW2 is Wasabi Wallet 2
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1172022-02-05T03:56:51 <Murch> Okay, but what does WW2 have to do with this channel? [o.0]
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1192022-02-05T03:57:12 <Murch> Or is that just an example of someone else making the wrong choice according to your taset?
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1212022-02-05T03:58:52 <prayank> Murch: I think I already shared this: 1. My fear 2. Research about coin selection and privacy
1222022-02-05T04:00:44 <Murch> Well, you can keep an eye on wallet developments to remind us when we touch Coin Control
1232022-02-05T04:01:09 <prayank> Sure. Thanks.
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1552022-02-05T08:15:10 <laanwj> coin control is one of the most popular features of the bitcoin core wallet, that other wallets don't tend to have, it's not going away
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1742022-02-05T10:49:48 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24268: Add bitcoin_config.h to build_msvc/.gitignore (master...220205-ignore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24268
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1872022-02-05T11:48:21 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/372cb6c18642...b23e0379610d
1882022-02-05T11:48:21 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d570f26 Hennadii Stepanov: Add bitcoin_config.h to build_msvc/.gitignore
1892022-02-05T11:48:21 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b23e037 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24268: Add bitcoin_config.h to build_msvc/.gitignore...
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1922022-02-05T11:48:39 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24268: Add bitcoin_config.h to build_msvc/.gitignore (master...220205-ignore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24268
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1952022-02-05T12:03:08 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b23e0379610d...1e7564eca8a6
1962022-02-05T12:03:08 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 80cd64e Ryan Ofsky: Re-enable util_datadir check disabled in #20744
1972022-02-05T12:03:08 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d216bc8 Ryan Ofsky: Re-enable walletinit_verify_walletdir_no_trailing2 test disabled in #20744...
1982022-02-05T12:03:08 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1e7564e fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24251: Re-enable windows path tests disabled by #207...
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2012022-02-05T12:03:26 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24251: Re-enable windows path tests disabled by #20744 (master...pr/wp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24251
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2152022-02-05T13:51:29 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #24269: test: add functional test for `-discover` (master...2022-02-discover-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24269
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2432022-02-05T16:19:09 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] anshu-khare-design closed pull request #24247: p2p: Split network logging into two categories (master...issue_20576) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24247
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2462022-02-05T16:22:32 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] rsogllc opened pull request #24270: Rsogllc patch 3 (master...rsogllc-patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24270
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2492022-02-05T16:24:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] rsogllc opened pull request #24271: Rsogllc patch 3 1 (master...rsogllc-patch-3-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24271
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2522022-02-05T16:25:56 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24270: Rsogllc patch 3 (master...rsogllc-patch-3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24270
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2552022-02-05T16:26:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24271: Rsogllc patch 3 1 (master...rsogllc-patch-3-1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24271
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2682022-02-05T17:17:51 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] anshu-khare-design opened pull request #24273: p2p: Split network logging into two categories #24247 (master...first_issue) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24273
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2852022-02-05T18:39:37 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak opened pull request #24274: Introduce GetFileArg and use it where possible (master...GetFileArg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24274
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