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 30 2022-02-10T01:27:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] kristapsk opened pull request #24307: RPC: Return external_signer in getwalletinfo (master...getwalletinfo-external_signer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24307
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 84 2022-02-10T07:14:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8c0f02c69d50...3dc0bb95520e
 85 2022-02-10T07:14:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa2f7d0 MarcoFalke: fuzz: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in FormatParagraph
 86 2022-02-10T07:14:49  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3dc0bb9 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24298: fuzz: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in Form...
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 89 2022-02-10T07:15:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24298: fuzz: Avoid unsigned integer overflow in FormatParagraph (master...2202-fuzzIntU) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24298
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 92 2022-02-10T07:16:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/3dc0bb95520e...8796c2f5688d
 93 2022-02-10T07:16:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa2807e MarcoFalke: test: Remove unused integer sanitizer suppressions
 94 2022-02-10T07:16:07  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8796c2f fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24302: test: Remove unused integer sanitizer suppres...
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 97 2022-02-10T07:16:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24302: test: Remove unused integer sanitizer suppressions (master...2202-testSanSupUnu) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24302
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100 2022-02-10T07:18:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8796c2f5688d...243a9c39250d
101 2022-02-10T07:18:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fac9fe5 MarcoFalke: Fix unintended unsigned integer overflow in strencodings
102 2022-02-10T07:18:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 243a9c3 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24297: Fix unintended unsigned integer overflow in s...
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105 2022-02-10T07:18:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24297: Fix unintended unsigned integer overflow in strencodings (master...2202-unInt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24297
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112 2022-02-10T08:18:18  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24308: util: use stronger-guarantee rename method (master...20435_rebased) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24308
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128 2022-02-10T09:01:40  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/243a9c39250d...a7e80449c081
129 2022-02-10T09:01:40  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5cd15ff Sebastian Falbesoner: random: use arc4random on OpenBSD
130 2022-02-10T09:01:40  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0c49e52 Sebastian Falbesoner: build: remove unneeded getentropy detection (HAVE_GETENTROPY)
131 2022-02-10T09:01:40  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master a7e8044 laanwj: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24238: random: use arc4random on OpenBSD
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134 2022-02-10T09:01:58  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #24238: random: use arc4random on OpenBSD (master...202202-random-use_arc4random_on_OpenBSD) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24238
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137 2022-02-10T09:04:37  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24309: test: test that OP_1-OP_16 (but not lower/higher) start witness programs (master...cherrypick_test_13062) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24309
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142 2022-02-10T09:20:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #20435: util: use stronger-guarantee rename method (master...rename) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20435
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192 2022-02-10T10:54:48  <fanquake> Looks like our ARM CI is failing for most jobs
193 2022-02-10T10:57:37  <hebasto> fanquake: AWS issue?
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195 2022-02-10T11:04:36  <michaelfolkson> More spam (Sagor2214) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24152#discussion_r803506080
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197 2022-02-10T11:17:30  <michaelfolkson> Thanks
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211 2022-02-10T12:09:27  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
212 2022-02-10T12:09:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #24310: docs / fixups from RBF and packages (master...2022-02-fixups) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24310
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214 2022-02-10T12:09:29  <laanwj> i already considered blocking that one yesterday, they were doing some really strange things like concept ACKing from another repository, i thought it was a one-time test of some kind, but apparently it continues
215 2022-02-10T12:09:58  <laanwj> either people are confused how to use github or it's something more insidious but i don't get it
216 2022-02-10T12:12:26  <laanwj> something like, do longer-term github accounts that have some comment/repository history (at first glance) bring money to sell
217 2022-02-10T12:12:38  <fanquake> yes I blocked them a little while ago
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226 2022-02-10T13:31:36  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24311: build: Fix Guix build for Windows (master...220210-guix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24311
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251 2022-02-10T15:07:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #24311: build: Fix Guix build for Windows (master...220210-guix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24311
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260 2022-02-10T15:58:55  <michaelfolkson> More spam :) taveechaimekwan https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24147#discussion_r803810543
261 2022-02-10T15:59:11  *** vysn <vysn!~vysn@user/vysn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
262 2022-02-10T16:05:06  <michaelfolkson> Need Hashcash on GitHub
263 2022-02-10T16:06:13  *** rottenstonks_ <rottenstonks_!~rottensto@user/rottenstonks> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
264 2022-02-10T16:08:17  <laanwj> also blocked
265 2022-02-10T16:09:43  *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
266 2022-02-10T16:09:52  <prayank> I can write a banning algorithm that uses github API. It will only ban bad people because computers are always right.
267 2022-02-10T16:10:02  *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
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269 2022-02-10T16:13:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24312:  addrman: Log negative lowest_compatible (master...2202-logNeg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24312
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274 2022-02-10T16:22:53  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #24313: Improve display address handling for external signer (master...2022/02/displayaddress) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24313
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276 2022-02-10T16:26:05  <michaelfolkson> prayank: Some proof of work would be nice. I don't think any of us want to discourage new contributors or opposing viewpoints but maintainers spending their time blocking spam doesn't seem like the best use of their time
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279 2022-02-10T16:30:19  <prayank> michaelfolkson: It was sarcasm for some privacy wallets writing non sense that affect privacy of Bitcoin in general but nobody wants to talk about it. I understand your point and no disagreement.
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304 2022-02-10T18:23:02  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic Discontinue release notes wiki
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309 2022-02-10T18:30:11  <prayank> #proposedmeetingtopic what are the issues with payjoin not available in bitcoin core? Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/soesbt/will_payjoin_bip78_catch_on/
310 2022-02-10T18:30:23  *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
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312 2022-02-10T18:32:57  <prayank> Sorry forgot the issue created by pastapastapasta: #19148
313 2022-02-10T18:32:58  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19148 | Implement PayJoin / Pay-to-EndPoint · Issue #19148 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
314 2022-02-10T18:33:04  *** prayank <prayank!~Prayank@45.64.9.50> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
315 2022-02-10T18:38:28  <michaelfolkson> prayank: I think that's a wallet meeting topic
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320 2022-02-10T18:48:46  <prayank> #proposedwalletmeetingtopic what are the issues with payjoin not available in bitcoin core? Context: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/soesbt/will_payjoin_bip78_catch_on/
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329 2022-02-10T18:55:23  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!Kaizen_Kin@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/kaizenkintsugi/x-74018745> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
330 2022-02-10T18:59:42  <laanwj> i also think it's not useful to discuss features if you're not planning to implement them
331 2022-02-10T19:00:06  <provoostenator> Indeed, the wallet has a 100 person-year backlog already.
332 2022-02-10T19:00:25  <MarcoFalke> The general answer to "Why is X not available in open source is: Because no one has implemented X"
333 2022-02-10T19:00:32  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
334 2022-02-10T19:00:33  <laanwj> exactly
335 2022-02-10T19:01:06  <laanwj> #startmeeting
336 2022-02-10T19:01:07  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Thu Feb 10 19:01:06 2022 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
337 2022-02-10T19:01:07  <core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
338 2022-02-10T19:01:18  <MarcoFalke> It's not always the answer, though. It could also be "because no one has reviewed X"
339 2022-02-10T19:01:25  <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball
340 2022-02-10T19:01:27  <laanwj> morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
341 2022-02-10T19:01:30  <achow101> hi
342 2022-02-10T19:01:30  <MarcoFalke> hi
343 2022-02-10T19:01:32  <b10c> hi
344 2022-02-10T19:01:33  <larryruane> hi
345 2022-02-10T19:01:35  <cfields> hi
346 2022-02-10T19:01:42  <dongcarl> hi
347 2022-02-10T19:01:42  <laanwj> sure, if there is an implementation the question could be 'why is it not being merged'
348 2022-02-10T19:01:46  <fjahr> hi
349 2022-02-10T19:01:52  <hebasto> hi
350 2022-02-10T19:01:57  <fanquake> hi
351 2022-02-10T19:02:04  <michaelfolkson> hi
352 2022-02-10T19:02:11  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
353 2022-02-10T19:02:39  <laanwj> two proposed meeting topics then: libbitcoinkernel initial discussion + Q&MaybeA (dongcarl), Discontinue release notes wiki (MarcoFalke)
354 2022-02-10T19:02:43  <laanwj> any last minute ones?
355 2022-02-10T19:03:10  <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> hi
356 2022-02-10T19:03:49  <laanwj> the feature freeze is in 5 days, so i think instead of high priority for review, it might be more useful to review what has the 0.23 milestone and is a feature
357 2022-02-10T19:04:00  <laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/52
358 2022-02-10T19:04:08  <jonatack> hi
359 2022-02-10T19:04:37  <laanwj> e.g. #24115
360 2022-02-10T19:04:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24115 | ARMv8 SHA2 Intrinsics by prusnak · Pull Request #24115 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
361 2022-02-10T19:05:05  <laanwj> and #24187
362 2022-02-10T19:05:07  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24187 | Followups for getdeploymentinfo by ajtowns · Pull Request #24187 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
363 2022-02-10T19:05:38  <laanwj> i'm not sure about #19602 last minute to be honest
364 2022-02-10T19:05:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19602 | wallet: Migrate legacy wallets to descriptor wallets by achow101 · Pull Request #19602 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
365 2022-02-10T19:05:48  <MarcoFalke> Yeah, could remove that
366 2022-02-10T19:05:57  <laanwj> might be better to (if it is ready) merge it early in 24.0 merge window
367 2022-02-10T19:05:59  <MarcoFalke> Maybe was a bit too optimistic back when I tagged it
368 2022-02-10T19:06:02  <achow101> It would be a bit last minute to merge that
369 2022-02-10T19:06:09  <laanwj> yes, bumped it
370 2022-02-10T19:06:23  <achow101> unfortunately it has not gotten much review
371 2022-02-10T19:06:29  <MarcoFalke> Don't think it had any in-depth review at all yet?
372 2022-02-10T19:07:03  <laanwj> it's one that needs a lot of review and testing, with different wallets
373 2022-02-10T19:08:19  <laanwj> at least it adds a RPC to do the migration manually; it doesn't do it automatically, now that would be risky
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375 2022-02-10T19:08:50  <laanwj> #15774 doesn't seem realistic for 23.0?
376 2022-02-10T19:08:52  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/15774 | macOS App Notarization · Issue #15774 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
377 2022-02-10T19:09:31  <laanwj> don't actually know what it's involved, would it need a PR?
378 2022-02-10T19:09:35  <MarcoFalke> fanquake promised somewhere that it will be fixed for 23.0 ;)
379 2022-02-10T19:09:39  <laanwj> ok
380 2022-02-10T19:09:44  <laanwj> will ask him personally then
381 2022-02-10T19:09:51  <MarcoFalke> fanquake: ^
382 2022-02-10T19:10:00  <MarcoFalke> He might be present
383 2022-02-10T19:10:03  <fanquake> it will be fixed
384 2022-02-10T19:10:28  <laanwj> i don't think we have any other features tagged 23.0?
385 2022-02-10T19:10:34  <laanwj> fanquake: awesome!
386 2022-02-10T19:11:18  *** vysn <vysn!~vysn@user/vysn> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
387 2022-02-10T19:11:57  <laanwj> is there anything not tagged that might be realistic to make the feature freeze?
388 2022-02-10T19:12:25  <jonatack> not a feature so apologies if irrelevant, but #20196 seems to be a bugfix that has been around since Oct 2020, has seen quite a bit of review, and had acks by sipa and myself
389 2022-02-10T19:12:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/20196 | net: fix GetListenPort() to derive the proper port by vasild · Pull Request #20196 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
390 2022-02-10T19:12:44  <jonatack> (needs rebase though)
391 2022-02-10T19:13:06  <laanwj> ok tagged
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393 2022-02-10T19:14:15  <hebasto> in gui repo only a bugfix is tagged for 23.0
394 2022-02-10T19:14:27  <laanwj> hebasto: thanks for checking
395 2022-02-10T19:15:54  <laanwj> ok, that concludes this topic i guess, feel free to ping me outside the meeting if any feature is ready for merge before the feature freeze
396 2022-02-10T19:16:01  <laanwj> #topic libbitcoinkernel initial discussion + Q&MaybeA (dongcarl)
397 2022-02-10T19:16:02  <core-meetingbot`> topic: libbitcoinkernel initial discussion + Q&MaybeA (dongcarl)
398 2022-02-10T19:16:10  <dongcarl> Hi all, I’ve been working libbitcoinkernel: on a plan to extract our consensus engine. I’ve written enough code to see that it can work, and I’d like to share it with you all!
399 2022-02-10T19:16:18  <dongcarl> Here is the umbrella issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24303
400 2022-02-10T19:16:19  <dongcarl> Here is the first PR: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24304
401 2022-02-10T19:16:22  <laanwj> woohoo!!!
402 2022-02-10T19:16:24  <provoostenator> Cool!
403 2022-02-10T19:16:28  <dongcarl> I’ve written up quite a lot between the issue and the PR description and the commit messages, and I’m happy to answer questions and discuss! (Sorry jeremyrubin I just saw your response from yesterday, will reply)
404 2022-02-10T19:16:33  <jonatack> nice
405 2022-02-10T19:16:49  <dongcarl> :D
406 2022-02-10T19:17:12  <laanwj> glad to hear you're making progress there
407 2022-02-10T19:17:23  <laanwj> #24303 #24304
408 2022-02-10T19:17:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24303 | The `libbitcoinkernel` Project · Issue #24303 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
409 2022-02-10T19:17:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24304 | [kernel 0/n] Introduce `bitcoin-chainstate` and `libbitcoinkernel` by dongcarl · Pull Request #24304 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
410 2022-02-10T19:18:00  <laanwj> and that your conclusion was that it can actually work, not unimportant
411 2022-02-10T19:18:08  <dongcarl> Yeah I think I had to do some exploring at first, but I think the MVP (stage 1) turned out to be less work than I thought!
412 2022-02-10T19:19:04  <laanwj> great! we've come a long way with modularization and untangling things that should help
413 2022-02-10T19:19:31  <dongcarl> I think there will be some idiosyncrasies in how the API/library works, but I think it is a big win to get the decoupling work done, and we can make the library/API ergonomic at any time
414 2022-02-10T19:20:03  <laanwj> absolutely
415 2022-02-10T19:20:14  <dongcarl> One key insight here is that after we decouple, any re-coupling results in a linker/compiler failure
416 2022-02-10T19:20:27  <dongcarl> So it's good to get the decoupling through first, since that's a big win
417 2022-02-10T19:20:47  <michaelfolkson> Why was a new approach required from libbitcoinconsensus? Or is this building on top of the work done in libbitcoinconsensus?
418 2022-02-10T19:21:11  <michaelfolkson> I know you say "it is a stateful library that can spawn threads, do caching, do I/O, and many other things which one may not normally expect from a library." Sounds like libbitcoinconsensus couldn't do that
419 2022-02-10T19:21:12  <laanwj> basically because it's stateful
420 2022-02-10T19:21:19  <laanwj> yes
421 2022-02-10T19:21:44  <dongcarl> michaelfolkson: libbitcoinconsensus also only does scipt verification last time I checked
422 2022-02-10T19:21:58  <dongcarl> No block or UTXO management logic
423 2022-02-10T19:22:21  <jonatack> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/f9a8a6e88e0ed1c63f927346339b640f/pasted.txt
424 2022-02-10T19:22:22  <cfields> +100 for libbitcoinconsensus. I've been hacking on carl's branches a bit, and some single-use tools quickly emerged. It's VERY cool.
425 2022-02-10T19:22:46  <jonatack> michaelfolkson: if I may, just posted a file with notes I took on this
426 2022-02-10T19:22:49  <cfields> er, libbitcoinkernel. sorry :)
427 2022-02-10T19:23:07  <michaelfolkson> So libbitcoinconsensus was like a first attempt and this is now a second attempt learning lessons from libbitcoinconsensus?
428 2022-02-10T19:23:14  <michaelfolkson> jonatack: Thanks!
429 2022-02-10T19:23:22  <dongcarl> Hehe yeah cfields built a cool bitcoin-reindex tool with it!
430 2022-02-10T19:24:05  <cfields> michaelfolkson: bitcoinconsensus was very limited and not all that useful with what it can do realistically. libbitcoinkernel is more like a minimized version of a core node impl with no useful interfaces baked in.
431 2022-02-10T19:24:12  <jonatack> michaelfolkson: (those were comments on IRC here by laanwj)
432 2022-02-10T19:24:39  <michaelfolkson> Ok cool
433 2022-02-10T19:24:45  <dongcarl> :-)
434 2022-02-10T19:25:07  <dongcarl> BTW, I'm actively looking for people to take on Stage 2 as mentioned here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24303
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436 2022-02-10T19:25:37  <dongcarl> If anyone thinks they're even remotely suited to the task, lmk!
437 2022-02-10T19:26:22  <provoostenator> dongcarl: how does this jibe with ryanofsky's multiprocess stuff?
438 2022-02-10T19:26:36  <laanwj> maybe someone can do a rust binding :-)
439 2022-02-10T19:26:40  <provoostenator> I guess this just takes a chunck out of what was already contained in the node?
440 2022-02-10T19:27:25  <laanwj> multiprocess is about running multiple processes, this is about splitting the code, it's related but not the same
441 2022-02-10T19:27:57  <provoostenator> Right, but if both involve splitting code
442 2022-02-10T19:28:23  <provoostenator> E.g. we got rid of all these globals and now have interfaces.
443 2022-02-10T19:28:26  <dongcarl> Right, I think in practice libbitcoinkernel will probably be a subset of bitcoin-node (is that the right binary?), as in bitcoin-node can link against libbitcoinkernel (not proposing that we do this yet)
444 2022-02-10T19:28:29  <laanwj> it could help multiprocess
445 2022-02-10T19:28:35  <larryruane> would libbitcoinkernel be a separate repo?
446 2022-02-10T19:28:45  <laanwj> larryruane: n-no plans like that for the forseaable future
447 2022-02-10T19:28:47  <MarcoFalke> I'd say it shouldn't affect multiprocess, as libbitcoinkernel will be wrapped in the "Node" (from the view of multiprocess interfaces)
448 2022-02-10T19:29:31  <dongcarl> Yeah right now I have a src/kernel/ directory where I keep libbitcoinkernel specific stuff. No plans yet of repo separation
449 2022-02-10T19:29:49  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:fd49:eb7b:9a3e:b722> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
450 2022-02-10T19:30:04  <dongcarl> Great questions btw :-)
451 2022-02-10T19:31:07  <MarcoFalke> so validation.cpp would eventually move to src/kernel/validation.cpp ?
452 2022-02-10T19:31:26  <laanwj> the actual validation parts, i suppose
453 2022-02-10T19:32:05  <dongcarl> Exactly right. The parts of src/validation.cpp that we absolutely require for the consensus engine would be moved to src/kernel/validation.cpp
454 2022-02-10T19:32:17  <dongcarl> The rest can stay in src/validation.cpp
455 2022-02-10T19:32:45  <lightlike> isn't it more the other way round, that the index rework of #24230 helps for this project too? If the indexes could run as their own process, doesnt this mean that they are also out of libbitcoinkernel?
456 2022-02-10T19:32:47  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24230 | indexes: Stop using node internal types and locking cs_main, improve sync logic by ryanofsky · Pull Request #24230 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
457 2022-02-10T19:32:49  <laanwj> or renamed to something else if there's a better match for the remaining functionality
458 2022-02-10T19:34:00  <cfields> I think it's useful to look at the file list to get an idea of how carl's working: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24304/files#diff-4cb884d03ebb901069e4ee5de5d02538c40dd9b39919c615d8eaa9d364bbbd77R832
459 2022-02-10T19:34:23  <cfields> dongcarl: if I'm not mistaken, you started by globbing everything into there, then move things out piece-by-piece.
460 2022-02-10T19:34:26  <dongcarl> lightlike: So in my "vision quest" branches, I've found that if we merge the prune blocker PR, then we can drop the blockfilterindex, and then we can rearchitect GetUTXOStats to not unconditionally depend on the coinstatsindex, then we don't have any indices in libbitcoinkernel
461 2022-02-10T19:34:45  <laanwj> huh nice
462 2022-02-10T19:35:26  <dongcarl> Yes! It's actually quite satisfying to see every bulk of change culminate in the removal of a .cpp file in the _SOURCES list :-)
463 2022-02-10T19:36:24  <cfields> there are obviously some things that don't belong in that list, but are currently pulled in by something. those are basically the TODOs. util/asmap.cpp as a good example, should be moved out, but that presumably requires some refactoring first.
464 2022-02-10T19:36:43  <laanwj> asmap seems decidedly P2P related
465 2022-02-10T19:36:58  <cfields> right
466 2022-02-10T19:37:23  <laanwj> it might be useful as an external library for some P2P purposes in itself, but that's a whole other topic :)
467 2022-02-10T19:37:28  <provoostenator> p2p is not considered kernel I guess
468 2022-02-10T19:37:39  <laanwj> right
469 2022-02-10T19:38:12  <dongcarl> Nope P2P is not considered part of the kernel
470 2022-02-10T19:38:27  <dongcarl> However, for stage 1, we are including the mempool
471 2022-02-10T19:38:38  <MarcoFalke> Would it be possible to link libbitcoinkernel into bitcoind from the beginning (in #24230)?
472 2022-02-10T19:38:40  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24230 | indexes: Stop using node internal types and locking cs_main, improve sync logic by ryanofsky · Pull Request #24230 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
473 2022-02-10T19:38:52  <MarcoFalke> sorry, 24303
474 2022-02-10T19:39:37  <MarcoFalke> This means that the SOURCES can be removed from libbitcoin_node?
475 2022-02-10T19:39:57  <MarcoFalke> (Maybe I should leave this as a code review comment)
476 2022-02-10T19:40:09  <dongcarl> I explored doing that, and there's no clear hierarchy between our internal .a libs and libbitcoinkernel
477 2022-02-10T19:40:18  <lightlike> for asmap, there is jnewbery's #22910 which, as a side-effect, might result in being able to remove the dependency
478 2022-02-10T19:40:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22910 | net: Encapsulate asmap in NetGroupManager by jnewbery · Pull Request #22910 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
479 2022-02-10T19:40:54  <dongcarl> MarcoFalke: But I think that's a great idea worth exploring later on when we've decoupled more things!
480 2022-02-10T19:41:07  <cfields> lightlike: aha, +1. sounds like that's very possible.
481 2022-02-10T19:41:33  <dongcarl> Oh I think I had an easier fix for asmap in my branches :-)
482 2022-02-10T19:42:11  <dongcarl> I think overall, we should also make some developer notes on how to code in a way that doesn't introduce too many dependencies/coupling
483 2022-02-10T19:42:37  *** vysn <vysn!~vysn@user/vysn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
484 2022-02-10T19:42:55  <dongcarl> Anyway, that's probably a topic for another day
485 2022-02-10T19:42:59  <MarcoFalke> Couldn't the hirarchy issue be solved by linking libbitcoinkernel in between every .a lib?
486 2022-02-10T19:43:26  <laanwj> we have another (probably short) topic to go, might want to wrap up
487 2022-02-10T19:43:51  <dongcarl> MarcoFalke: I think the brute-force way is just to add it to the top of LDADD for all binaries, but that doesn't seem "right" to me
488 2022-02-10T19:44:01  <dongcarl> I'm all done! We can move on
489 2022-02-10T19:44:05  <dongcarl> Thanks all
490 2022-02-10T19:44:28  <laanwj> thank you
491 2022-02-10T19:44:47  <laanwj> #topic Discontinue release notes wiki (MarcoFalke)
492 2022-02-10T19:44:47  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Discontinue release notes wiki (MarcoFalke)
493 2022-02-10T19:44:49  <provoostenator> So this bitcoin-chainstate binary won't actually do anything right?
494 2022-02-10T19:44:56  <provoostenator> It just makes sure we don't break the build.
495 2022-02-10T19:44:56  <MarcoFalke> Yeah, so we introduced the wiki back when no release notes were written in pull requests. They were written before a release. Obviously that approach isn't sustainable, and we switched to writing release notes when the code was written.
496 2022-02-10T19:45:08  <MarcoFalke> So I am thinking if we still need the wiki
497 2022-02-10T19:45:20  <laanwj> there's still organization + editing work left
498 2022-02-10T19:45:22  <achow101> We still use the wiki for finishing up release notes during the RC process
499 2022-02-10T19:45:23  <dongcarl> provoostenator: I'll answer after this topic
500 2022-02-10T19:45:28  <MarcoFalke> IIRC last time there were only a few minor typo fixes and other minor edits
501 2022-02-10T19:45:39  <laanwj> we definitely dont' want a PR for every little typo fix
502 2022-02-10T19:45:40  <jonatack> Quite a bit of editing happens in the wiki, I did a fair amount
503 2022-02-10T19:45:57  <MarcoFalke> My thinking is that edits will need review either way
504 2022-02-10T19:46:27  <laanwj> yes
505 2022-02-10T19:46:31  <provoostenator> But maybe a wiki is more suitable for just letting people change things, check the history, and revert if needed?
506 2022-02-10T19:46:34  <laanwj> but that's possible to do post-hoc for documentation
507 2022-02-10T19:46:50  <laanwj> i do think a wiki is a better fit in general for documents than PRs
508 2022-02-10T19:46:56  <laanwj> yes
509 2022-02-10T19:47:02  <jonatack> Some was rewriting/fixups, and some was moving similar notes together / reorganizing IIRC
510 2022-02-10T19:47:18  <laanwj> also the wiki can only be edited by organization members, so we don't really have to be afraid of vandalism
511 2022-02-10T19:47:40  <prayank> laanwj: agree and had shared this a few months back
512 2022-02-10T19:48:07  <prayank> agree with: i do think a wiki is a better fit in general for documents than PRs
513 2022-02-10T19:48:09  <laanwj> in any case i don't see a strong reason to move away from the wiki approach, at least for major releases
514 2022-02-10T19:48:22  <MarcoFalke> ok
515 2022-02-10T19:48:55  <laanwj> so it's not so much about writing the release notes (though some need to be written) but more about combining, ordering, and the final touches
516 2022-02-10T19:49:14  <laanwj> it's really inconvenient to do that cooperatively in PRs
517 2022-02-10T19:49:52  <MarcoFalke> Ideally, we'd do all of that over the year and not last minute
518 2022-02-10T19:50:06  <laanwj> some stuff always needs to be done last minute
519 2022-02-10T19:50:16  <laanwj> but yes, doing more in sync with the code is of course better
520 2022-02-10T19:50:17  <prayank> engineers
521 2022-02-10T19:51:01  <MarcoFalke> At least I've been trying to do that (#24068, ...)
522 2022-02-10T19:51:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24068 | doc: Rework 14707 release notes by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #24068 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
523 2022-02-10T19:51:20  <laanwj> good!
524 2022-02-10T19:52:13  <laanwj> any other topics?
525 2022-02-10T19:54:20  <jonatack> Subjecting release note edits to the review process seems daunting (to me :D)
526 2022-02-10T19:54:46  <michaelfolkson> +1
527 2022-02-10T19:55:11  <laanwj> i mean what could work is to have a separate repo with higher throughput than the usualy review process, and doesn't mind the noise, but that's effectively a wiki then
528 2022-02-10T19:55:50  <MarcoFalke> It doesn't need to be a separate repo. If someone fixes a typo in the release notes, the pull can be merged by the first maintainer that sees it
529 2022-02-10T19:56:00  <laanwj> also: i can't stress this enough please don't write too many release notes, it's not documentation, only a list of changes, it can refer to the actual documentation
530 2022-02-10T19:56:16  <laanwj> i don't like how much spam that implies
531 2022-02-10T19:56:17  <MarcoFalke> It is not like we need 37 ACKs and wait a week to fix a typo
532 2022-02-10T19:56:31  <laanwj> i really dislike PRs that just fix a typo
533 2022-02-10T19:56:32  <MarcoFalke> ok, that's a good point
534 2022-02-10T19:56:58  <laanwj> definitely not going to merge them faster :)
535 2022-02-10T19:57:18  <MarcoFalke> I am mostly worried about a last-minute rewrite of the release notes in the wiki (that introduce errors), but no one notices until after release
536 2022-02-10T19:57:29  <laanwj> well, watch the changes then
537 2022-02-10T19:57:49  <MarcoFalke> I mean "last-minute"
538 2022-02-10T19:57:53  <laanwj> i'm not particularly afraid of that tbh
539 2022-02-10T19:58:02  <MarcoFalke> ok
540 2022-02-10T19:58:13  <MarcoFalke> Heh, let's end the meeting
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542 2022-02-10T19:58:30  <laanwj> people in the org don't usually do stupid stuff, but sure, it's good to pay attention, especially before merging them back to the branch
543 2022-02-10T19:58:38  <warren> Would it be harmful to point at a webpage for the latest release notes instead of being part of the distribution?
544 2022-02-10T19:59:05  <laanwj> i think having them (eventually) part of the distribution is fine
545 2022-02-10T19:59:31  <provoostenator> And having the full archive of release notes in the source code is useful too.
546 2022-02-10T19:59:39  <laanwj> webpages tend to disappear etc
547 2022-02-10T20:01:05  <laanwj> i mean who knows we'll lose the lawsuit and bitcoincore.org disappears :p just kidding i guess but good to keep things self-contained
548 2022-02-10T20:01:42  <laanwj> #endmeeting
549 2022-02-10T20:01:42  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
550 2022-02-10T20:01:42  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Thu Feb 10 20:01:42 2022 UTC.
551 2022-02-10T20:01:42  <core-meetingbot`> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-02-10-19.01.moin.txt
552 2022-02-10T20:01:48  <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> If no one else has anything, I was in chaincode recently, and signature aggregation got brought up for optimizing a block. I'm wondering if anyone could elaborate. I assume this would be to speed up transaction validation. Does it allow more data to be packed into a block?
553 2022-02-10T20:02:04  <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> It was in relation to taproot
554 2022-02-10T20:02:11  <dongcarl> provoostenator: bitcoin-chainstate does do something! It will print out information about a datadir and wait for new blocks (encoded in hex) to process on stdin. I found it pretty cool to start it and start feeding it block 1, 2, 3, and see it work :-)
555 2022-02-10T20:02:19  <dongcarl> provoostenator: E.g. ./src/bitcoin-chainstate ./test-datadir (This is a draft PR please don’t use it on your actual datadir).
556 2022-02-10T20:02:44  <provoostenator> dongcarl:  ah that's very cool, I might play with that
557 2022-02-10T20:03:14  <laanwj> fwiw for RCs i do link to the wiki for the preliminary release notes, for -final it gets merged back into the branch, after that the wiki is emptied and changed to a link to the release notes on the master
558 2022-02-10T20:04:51  <prayank> Responding to the things I checked later when meeting was going and they were shared just before meeting:
559 2022-02-10T20:04:55  <prayank> laanwj: I can review. I dont think Its always the case that person who implements would want to discuss it in the meeting (open source). One example was: UTXO locks saved in db. provoostenator: With this logic it would be impossible to discuss anything in wallet meeting (backlog). MarcoFalke: I think I had this idea already so suggested someone to create a bounty for it in the reddit thread shared but not sure about real issues
560 2022-02-10T20:04:55  <prayank> . There are lot of things that you assume, create a pr and one of the maintainers comment: this has xyz problem so always better to discuss before wasting your own time or requesting others to confirm in meeting.
561 2022-02-10T20:05:51  <laanwj> prayank: if you simply have questions, you can ask any time, either on github (apparently a issue already exists), no need to reserve time for it in the meeting
562 2022-02-10T20:06:23  <laanwj> (or here, but for longer ongoing discussion github is better)
563 2022-02-10T20:06:32  <prayank> laanwj: this is not a simple question and already has a github issue with no activity
564 2022-02-10T20:06:59  <MarcoFalke> prayank: Yeah, that means that maybe no one has looked at the BIP in-depth yet?
565 2022-02-10T20:07:08  <prayank> Maybe
566 2022-02-10T20:07:24  <laanwj> if there's no activity there's probably no developer interest
567 2022-02-10T20:07:39  <michaelfolkson> Kaizen_Kintsugi_: Perhaps #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews is better channel for these types of general questions. But with Schnorr we can do key aggregation schemes (e.g. MuSig2) but not signature aggregation across say inputs
568 2022-02-10T20:08:23  <michaelfolkson> Kaizen_Kintsugi_: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/106163/what-is-the-difference-between-key-aggregation-and-signature-aggregation
569 2022-02-10T20:08:50  <prayank> laanwj: I have followed your comments since last few years and you are one of the devs who is always for-privacy and even in coin control disccusions i could see it. Why do you think it never made it to core?
570 2022-02-10T20:09:27  <provoostenator> prayank: a good place to start is probably to write a Python script that implements PayJoin using RPC calls.
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573 2022-02-10T20:10:53  <belcher> payjoin requires a http server with ssl, is that appropriate for core? maybe im biased since i dont use core's gui myself, only bitcoind
574 2022-02-10T20:11:02  <laanwj> no one with expertise in bitcoin privacy methods works on bitcoin core, they all decided to make their own projects
575 2022-02-10T20:11:11  <belcher> payjoin is already implemented in btcpayserver, but from what i see its not very common for merchants to turn it on
576 2022-02-10T20:11:12  <prayank> provoostenator: that looks like discussing solutions. thanks. I will try it.
577 2022-02-10T20:11:30  <provoostenator> prayank: it could be a dead end, but it could also evolve to become it's own project
578 2022-02-10T20:11:45  <provoostenator> Proojects like Specter and Wasabi now end up using Bitcoin Core in the background.
579 2022-02-10T20:11:47  <belcher> i agree with provoostenator's suggestion, it shouldnt be too hard as python already has a bunch of libs for http servers/ssl
580 2022-02-10T20:11:52  <laanwj> belcher: yeah, it's hard to do within bitcoin core's architecture, it's very much a stand-alone wallet, fitting in any kind of coordination between wallets is going to be very difficult
581 2022-02-10T20:12:39  <belcher> the way joinmarket does it (it can receive as well as send payjoins) is by using tor's control port to create a one time hidden service that the other side can connect to to coordinate the payjoin
582 2022-02-10T20:12:42  <provoostenator> And I and others are _very_ slowly trying to chip away at some of Specter's magic to get multisig hardware wallet support directly in Core :-)
583 2022-02-10T20:12:43  <prayank> belcher: is it possible without sever? using ln or someting like nostr?
584 2022-02-10T20:13:25  <provoostenator> A server is trivial to build in Python. Not necessarily a secure one, but good enough for proof-of-concept and demos.
585 2022-02-10T20:13:31  <belcher> prayank bip78 says it uses http
586 2022-02-10T20:13:49  <belcher> note that in python you can just do "import http.server" or whatever the lib is, its easy
587 2022-02-10T20:13:50  <prayank> provoostenator: Wasabi has no background with core to use it and its non sense if they dont allow coin control in ww2
588 2022-02-10T20:14:36  <provoostenator> prayank: https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/BitcoinFullNode.html#how-does-wasabi-use-your-bitcoin-full-node
589 2022-02-10T20:15:12  <belcher> i just realized, _sending_ to payjoin invoices is much easier to implement than receiving
590 2022-02-10T20:15:23  <prayank> provoostenator: I work for wasabi since a few months. it can be used without full node. you can use it with full node but it does not use everything.
591 2022-02-10T20:15:36  <belcher> i tunnel-visioned in creating a http server in python, but thats only needed for receiving, for sending you just need to make a http request
592 2022-02-10T20:15:54  <prayank> belcher: you have good points. I need time.
593 2022-02-10T20:16:09  <belcher> implementing sending of payjoins in electrum or other wallets is also useful i think
594 2022-02-10T20:16:12  <prayank> and you should try nostr
595 2022-02-10T20:16:36  <belcher> once more wallets support sending to, maybe more merchants will end up supporting receiving (they just need to enable to option in btcpayserver, no coding is needed if they use that)
596 2022-02-10T20:18:22  <prayank> 99% nodes use core, I am sure most of them also use core wallet RPC
597 2022-02-10T20:18:46  <prayank> so its impossible to improve privacy without core
598 2022-02-10T20:19:18  <achow101> prayank: that's an assumption that is definitely not true (that most use core wallet's rpc)
599 2022-02-10T20:19:19  <belcher> plenty of those nodes might use other wallets on top, such as electrum via their own server, or spectre, or samourai's dojo thing
600 2022-02-10T20:19:47  <achow101> there are a lot of people who run nodes and use some other wallet
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602 2022-02-10T20:20:19  <prayank> hmm maybe makes sense
603 2022-02-10T20:20:27  <prayank> not sure
604 2022-02-10T20:20:40  <belcher> one thing worth noting, the way equal-output coinjoins work is that multiple senders come together to protect all their privacy together... the way payjoin works is that a customer and merchant together protect both their privacy, so it only makes sense to you as a customer if you think the merchant isnt spying on you, therefore payjoin is pretty pointless to be adopted by exchanges which do kyc, i.e. theres no point begging coinbase to adopt
605 2022-02-10T20:20:40  <belcher> payjoin
606 2022-02-10T20:21:16  <belcher> much more useful would be to ask places like bitcoin casinos, p2p exchanges and individual web stores to adopt payjoin
607 2022-02-10T20:21:44  <belcher> indeed the very first payjoin BIP was written by the operator of a bitcoin casino whos customers kept getting banned because they transferred coins straight from a kyc exchange to the casino
608 2022-02-10T20:30:08  <prayank> belcher: I am not sure why merchange and customer is used in this example it can be any peer1 and peer2 or alice-bob. If bitcoin was used for merchant and customer thing today maybe this thing was already solved.
609 2022-02-10T20:30:27  <prayank> *merchant
610 2022-02-10T20:30:35  <belcher> the merchant/customer relationship is used because payjoin requires a payment to be happening
611 2022-02-10T20:31:14  <prayank> and it can be achieved with any peers looking for privacy
612 2022-02-10T20:31:49  <belcher> only if theres some kind of payment going between those peers
613 2022-02-10T20:31:49  <achow101> if I pay you, you are the merchant, and I am the customer. merchant/customer does not mean "big company" and "single person"
614 2022-02-10T20:32:09  <belcher> compare that to equal-output coinjoins which generally involve different people coming together to make a transaction and not really paying each other
615 2022-02-10T20:32:21  <michaelfolkson> Coinjoin - you get back what you put in Payjoin - funds are actually moving from individual A to B. But I think this should be on another channel
616 2022-02-10T20:32:52  <prayank> I was a merchant in 2017 and I know merchants do not care about privacy in most of the case unless their brand is about privacy
617 2022-02-10T20:34:04  <achow101> and that is probably why payjoin does not see almost any adoption
618 2022-02-10T20:34:28  <Kaizen_Kintsugi_> @michaelfolkson: will do
619 2022-02-10T20:38:13  <prayank> I agree with most of the things you shared: achow101: belcher: I will quit and need a few days break to think about it how to make payjoin great again. Also thanks to everyone else who shared their feedback.
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634 2022-02-10T22:27:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak closed pull request #24274: Introduce GetFileArg and use it where possible (master...GetFileArg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24274
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