1 2022-03-17T00:13:06  <luke-jr> hebasto: why strikeout https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24521#issuecomment-1064867120 ?
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  4 2022-03-17T00:30:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns closed pull request #24563: wallet: Don't override sighash specified in PSBT (master...202203-fillpsbt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24563
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 29 2022-03-17T02:08:54  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #24595: WIP remove g_versionbitscache global (master...202202-cchainparams-chainstatemanager) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24595
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 71 2022-03-17T05:33:39  <hebasto> luke-jr: it is not about boost in depends, but about boost installed via homebrew
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 81 2022-03-17T06:13:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/d6cb4e8ff0d0...74f8c551e9ba
 82 2022-03-17T06:13:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 12cc020 Sebastian Falbesoner: contrib: fix signet miner (sighash mismatch)
 83 2022-03-17T06:13:12  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 74f8c55 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24553: contrib: fix signet miner (sighash mismatch)
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 86 2022-03-17T06:13:28  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24553: contrib: fix signet miner (sighash mismatch) (master...202203-contrib-fix_signet_miner_sighash_mismatch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24553
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 93 2022-03-17T06:22:11  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/74f8c551e9ba...aece56624941
 94 2022-03-17T06:22:11  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 026b5b4 Sjors Provoost: move-only: helper function to present PSBT
 95 2022-03-17T06:22:11  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4b5a6cd Sjors Provoost: refactor: helper function signWithExternalSigner()
 96 2022-03-17T06:22:11  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2efdfb8 Sjors Provoost: gui: restore Send for external signer
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 99 2022-03-17T06:22:27  <bitcoin-git> [gui] hebasto merged pull request #555: Restore Send button when using external signer (master...2022/02/send_button) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/555
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105 2022-03-17T06:26:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 8 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/aece56624941...601bfc417d1f
106 2022-03-17T06:26:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5be9ee3 Anthony Towns: refactor: more const annotations for uses of CBlockIndex*
107 2022-03-17T06:26:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3bbb6fe Carl Dong: style-only: Various blockstorage.cpp cleanups
108 2022-03-17T06:26:35  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 42e56d9 Carl Dong: style-only: No need for std::pair for vSortedByHeight
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111 2022-03-17T06:26:51  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24515: Only load BlockMan in BlockMan member functions  (master...2022-03-kirby-p2.5) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24515
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121 2022-03-17T06:33:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24596: [23.x] GUI backport (23.x...220317-23.x-backport) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24596
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131 2022-03-17T07:29:46  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/601bfc417d1f...bf2c0fb2a264
132 2022-03-17T07:29:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f59bee3 Anthony Towns: fuzz: execute each file in dir without fuzz engine
133 2022-03-17T07:29:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bf2c0fb MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24472: fuzz: execute each file in dir without fuzz e...
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136 2022-03-17T07:30:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24472: fuzz: execute each file in dir without fuzz engine (master...202203-phuzztesting) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24472
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143 2022-03-17T07:56:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #24597: doc, guix: Include `arm64-apple-darwin` into codesigned archs (master...220317-docs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24597
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146 2022-03-17T08:04:44  <Alexthek1d> Hello,
147 2022-03-17T08:04:45  <Alexthek1d> if you download the full node with bitcoin-core and i choose an external hard drive as target for the node:
148 2022-03-17T08:05:02  <Alexthek1d> Does bitcoin-core copy the data temporarily to the drive of the OS first (so "caching") or in memory/RAM and then to the external hdd?
149 2022-03-17T08:05:21  <Alexthek1d> (I ask because i do not want too many write operations on my OS drive)
150 2022-03-17T08:06:01  <sipa> It will only use the drive/directory you select.
151 2022-03-17T08:08:52  <Alexthek1d> sipa, thank you :)
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163 2022-03-17T08:36:02  <Alexthek1d> sipa, does it use RAM as cache?
164 2022-03-17T08:37:14  <laanwj> please take general usage questions to #bitcoin
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166 2022-03-17T08:38:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/bf2c0fb2a264...8435d7f11a89
167 2022-03-17T08:38:31  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 1f4801b Hennadii Stepanov: doc, guix: Include arm64-apple-darwin into codesigned archs
168 2022-03-17T08:38:31  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8435d7f fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24597: doc, guix: Include `arm64-apple-darwin` into ...
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172 2022-03-17T08:38:48  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24597: doc, guix: Include `arm64-apple-darwin` into codesigned archs (master...220317-docs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24597
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174 2022-03-17T08:41:41  <Alexthek1d> laanwj, okay
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177 2022-03-17T08:48:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #24593: [23.x] macOS / build backports (23.x...more_macos_backports_rc3) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24593
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183 2022-03-17T08:59:49  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak opened pull request #24598: Add *.xip to .gitignore (master...gitignore-xip) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24598
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193 2022-03-17T10:04:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24599: guix: remove mingw-w64 std::filesystem workaround (master...remove_newlib_workaround) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24599
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206 2022-03-17T11:07:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24600: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy wallet in build-freebsd.md (master...freebsd_legacy_descriptor_switch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24600
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209 2022-03-17T11:11:09  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] josibake opened pull request #24601: ci: add ci/scratch dir to .gitignore (master...add-ci-scratch-gitignore) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24601
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219 2022-03-17T11:40:02  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] mzumsande opened pull request #24602: fuzz: add target for coinselection algorithms (master...202203_fuzz_coinselection) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24602
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227 2022-03-17T12:08:39  <stickies-v> #proposedmeetingtopic important changes in 23.0 to cover in the new RC Testing Guide (see https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/22.0-Release-Candidate-Testing-Guide)
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235 2022-03-17T12:41:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24603: macdeploy: remove unused detached-sig-apply.sh (master...unused_detached_sig_apply) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24603
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245 2022-03-17T13:13:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24604: build: fix copypasta in OpenBSD C{XX} flags (master...openbsd_copy_pasta) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24604
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275 2022-03-17T15:09:18  <MarcoFalke> I can't force push to github anymore
276 2022-03-17T15:09:36  <MarcoFalke>  ! [remote rejected]       2203-designated_init-🛍 -> 2203-designated_init-🛍 (Internal Server Error)
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279 2022-03-17T15:11:00  <stick> MarcoFalke: github outage
280 2022-03-17T15:11:25  <stick> regular push does not work either from here
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282 2022-03-17T15:12:06  <stick> https://www.githubstatus.com
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287 2022-03-17T15:21:57  <MarcoFalke> tea time, I guess
288 2022-03-17T15:22:13  <fanquake> knock off time
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292 2022-03-17T15:24:31  <achow101> bah, can't comment either :(
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297 2022-03-17T15:39:46  <Earnest> achow101: Will descriptor wallets ever work with sethdseed and the ability to dump the (WIF) seed?
298 2022-03-17T15:39:54  <achow101> Earnest: no
299 2022-03-17T15:40:48  <Earnest> That is a feature I wanted to use but it seems to be going away now, I'll have to reconsider this
300 2022-03-17T15:41:14  <sipa> You can dump the descriptor(s), though.
301 2022-03-17T15:41:37  <Earnest> Yeah, I noted that and the recent change to dump the tprv as well
302 2022-03-17T15:41:49  <achow101> #23417 may allow for exporting the master private key however
303 2022-03-17T15:41:51  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23417 | wallet, spkm: Move key management from DescriptorScriptPubKeyMan to wallet level KeyManager by achow101 · Pull Request #23417 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
304 2022-03-17T15:42:22  <Earnest> But that's not nearly as useful as seeds, including any inactiveseeds
305 2022-03-17T15:42:58  <achow101> but with descriptor wallets, we want to be explicit about what is being imported and watched for, rather than inferring
306 2022-03-17T15:43:05  <Earnest> I quite like the idea of having my public/private keys being derived from a password/phrase, considerations for security withstanding
307 2022-03-17T15:43:31  <Earnest> So that I don't have to entirely rely on the robustness of computers
308 2022-03-17T15:43:52  <Earnest> (Much like curiosity, they rebooted it 7 times a day, just in case its state became corrupted)
309 2022-03-17T15:43:55  <achow101> key's are not useful if you don't know what scripts, and seeds are not useful without derivation paths
310 2022-03-17T15:44:01  <sipa> you can print a descriptor to paper or so as well
311 2022-03-17T15:44:08  <Earnest> achow101: This is a fair point, yeah
312 2022-03-17T15:44:19  <achow101> descriptors does not preclude containing bip39 mnemonics or other methods of deriving keys as KEY expressions
313 2022-03-17T15:44:26  <Earnest> Oh yeah, the new wallets are much nicer in that respect
314 2022-03-17T15:44:35  <Earnest> achow101: Yes, that's what I'm getting at
315 2022-03-17T15:44:50  <Earnest> (Doesn't have to be necessarily seed words though)
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317 2022-03-17T15:46:23  <Earnest> If you don't mind, thanks for answering so far, but listdescriptors on a new wallet will output 4 of them, and seems they're all the same but with different derivation paths and checksums.  As the tpub/tprv is the same for all of them, how would you import that tprv in such a way to recover them all instead of just one?
318 2022-03-17T15:46:42  <Earnest> Hm, actually I can probably answer that myself
319 2022-03-17T15:46:59  <sipa> you don't import tprvs; you import the whole descriptor
320 2022-03-17T15:47:14  <Earnest> Yeah, I just remembered that heh
321 2022-03-17T15:50:05  <Earnest> achow101: 23417 seems nice yeah
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367 2022-03-17T18:53:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24605: 2203 mini 🐧 (master...2203-mini-🐧) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24605
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370 2022-03-17T19:00:09  <laanwj> #startmeeting
371 2022-03-17T19:00:10  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting started Thu Mar 17 19:00:09 2022 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
372 2022-03-17T19:00:10  <core-meetingbot`> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
373 2022-03-17T19:00:13  <achow101> hi
374 2022-03-17T19:00:17  <stickies-v> hi
375 2022-03-17T19:00:43  <hebasto> hi
376 2022-03-17T19:00:55  <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball
377 2022-03-17T19:00:56  <laanwj> morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
378 2022-03-17T19:01:03  <provoostenator> hi
379 2022-03-17T19:01:23  <cfields_> hi
380 2022-03-17T19:01:24  <laanwj> welcome to the weekly bitcoin-core-dev general meeting
381 2022-03-17T19:01:28  <dongcarl> hi
382 2022-03-17T19:02:09  <laanwj> there has been one proposed topic: important changes in 23.0 to cover in the new RC Testing Guide (stickies-v)
383 2022-03-17T19:02:14  <MarcoFalke> #proposedmeetingtopic Adjusted time offset warning
384 2022-03-17T19:02:15  <laanwj> any last minute additional ones?
385 2022-03-17T19:02:32  <laanwj> MarcoFalke: ok
386 2022-03-17T19:03:02  <michaelfolkson> hi
387 2022-03-17T19:03:30  <laanwj> #topic High priority for review
388 2022-03-17T19:03:30  <core-meetingbot`> topic: High priority for review
389 2022-03-17T19:03:37  <laanwj> let's start with high prio as usual
390 2022-03-17T19:04:03  <laanwj> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/8  at the moment there's 8 blockers, 1 chasing concept ACK
391 2022-03-17T19:04:21  <laanwj> anything to add/remove, or that's almost ready for merge?
392 2022-03-17T19:04:39  <laanwj> #24058 was added outside the meeting last week
393 2022-03-17T19:04:42  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24058 | BIP-322 basic support by kallewoof · Pull Request #24058 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
394 2022-03-17T19:04:55  <MarcoFalke> #23595 for me pls
395 2022-03-17T19:04:55  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23595 | util: Add ParseHex () helper by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #23595 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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397 2022-03-17T19:06:05  <laanwj> MarcoFalke: added
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400 2022-03-17T19:06:42  <MarcoFalke> dank
401 2022-03-17T19:06:45  <jonatack> hi
402 2022-03-17T19:06:52  <luke-jr> maybe add #22693 for me
403 2022-03-17T19:06:53  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22693 | RPC/Wallet: Add "use_txids" to output of getaddressinfo by luke-jr · Pull Request #22693 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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405 2022-03-17T19:07:23  <laanwj> luke-jr: added
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407 2022-03-17T19:07:36  <luke-jr> ty
408 2022-03-17T19:07:42  <jonatack> may i please add #24555 (targets backport to v23)
409 2022-03-17T19:07:44  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24555 | doc: create initial doc/cjdns.md for CJDNS how-to documentation by jonatack · Pull Request #24555 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
410 2022-03-17T19:08:12  <jeremyrubin> hi
411 2022-03-17T19:08:28  <laanwj> jonatack: done
412 2022-03-17T19:08:37  <jonatack> laanwj: thank you
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414 2022-03-17T19:10:01  <laanwj> i guess that was it for high prio, let's move to next topic
415 2022-03-17T19:10:13  <laanwj> #topic Important changes in 23.0 to cover in the new RC Testing Guide (stickies-v)
416 2022-03-17T19:10:14  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Important changes in 23.0 to cover in the new RC Testing Guide (stickies-v)
417 2022-03-17T19:10:29  <stickies-v> Context: I've started working on updating the 23.0 RC Testing Guide, and I'd like to get some early feedback on which changes are considered important and useful to test since we don't have too much until release date.
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419 2022-03-17T19:10:42  <stickies-v> From the release notes (https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/23.0-Release-Notes-draft), I've selected the 5 changes I think most worthwhile to test, and 1 extra if I have time to get to it. I'd very much appreciate feedback on if you think anything else should really be included, and if maybe something can be omitted.
420 2022-03-17T19:10:56  <stickies-v> The changes I've selected are (in random order, summarized from release notes):
421 2022-03-17T19:10:57  <luke-jr> stickies-v: release dates are not firm; it's ready when it's ready
422 2022-03-17T19:11:24  <stickies-v> 1. The strong preference for only connecting to peers that listen the standard port 8333 has been removed.  (#23542)
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424 2022-03-17T19:11:29  <stickies-v> 2. Descriptor wallets are now the default wallet type. Newly created wallets will use descriptors unless descriptors=false is set during createwallet.
425 2022-03-17T19:11:30  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23542 | net: open p2p connections to nodes that listen on non-default ports by vasild · Pull Request #23542 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
426 2022-03-17T19:11:35  <stickies-v> 3. The validateaddress RPC now returns an error_locations array for invalid addresses, with the indices of invalid character locations in the address (if known). (#16807)
427 2022-03-17T19:11:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/16807 | Let validateaddress locate error in Bech32 address by meshcollider · Pull Request #16807 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
428 2022-03-17T19:11:39  <stickies-v> 4. The getblock RPC command and /rest/block/ REST endpoint now support verbosity level 3 containing transaction inputs' prevout information.
429 2022-03-17T19:11:43  <stickies-v> 5. Information on soft fork status has been moved from getblockchaininfo to the new getdeploymentinfo RPC which allows querying soft fork status at any block, rather than just at the chain tip. (#23508)
430 2022-03-17T19:11:49  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23508 | Add getdeploymentinfo RPC by ajtowns · Pull Request #23508 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
431 2022-03-17T19:12:02  <laanwj> i don't think 1 is straightforward to test
432 2022-03-17T19:12:02  <stickies-v> The additional change if I get to it in time is:
433 2022-03-17T19:12:02  <stickies-v> 6. A bitcoind node will only rumour addresses to inbound peers after they've sent an ADDR, ADDRV2, or GETADDR message. (#21528)
434 2022-03-17T19:12:09  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21528 | [p2p] Reduce addr blackholes by amitiuttarwar · Pull Request #21528 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
435 2022-03-17T19:12:31  <laanwj> because nothing will really give you non-8333 ports frequently yet (e.g. the DNS seeds strongly prefer 8333)
436 2022-03-17T19:12:34  <luke-jr> laanwj: well, testers can at least verify they have 8 peers that look randomish?
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438 2022-03-17T19:12:58  <michaelfolkson> And 2 isn't new for this release. Not sure if that should be a focus?
439 2022-03-17T19:13:01  <laanwj> sure, you can test that you still get usable peers
440 2022-03-17T19:13:15  <hebasto> owners of Apple M1 could test native arm64 binaries
441 2022-03-17T19:13:23  <laanwj> hebasto: yes, that's a good one
442 2022-03-17T19:13:32  <luke-jr> and they don't get deleted :P
443 2022-03-17T19:13:42  <hebasto> indeed
444 2022-03-17T19:13:49  <stickies-v> hebasto: thanks I'll include that
445 2022-03-17T19:14:05  <laanwj> stickies-v: thanks for working on this btw
446 2022-03-17T19:14:06  <jonatack> stickies: would be nice to test bitcoind over CJDNS, including IBD with -onlynet=cjdns and dns seeds
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448 2022-03-17T19:15:30  <stickies-v> jonatack: cool, will add that too
449 2022-03-17T19:16:05  <jonatack> stickies-v:  great
450 2022-03-17T19:16:13  <stickies-v> I was thinking the non-default port could be tested on regtest, since it does seem like quite an important change for the network going forward?
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452 2022-03-17T19:17:51  <stickies-v> achow101: what do you think about michaelfolkson's comment regarding descriptor wallet becoming default not being important to include in the testing as it's not a new change?
453 2022-03-17T19:18:02  <jonatack> stickies-v: you might be able to easily recycle the I2P testing in the last release testing, and link to doc/cjdns.md in #24555
454 2022-03-17T19:18:04  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24555 | doc: create initial doc/cjdns.md for CJDNS how-to documentation by jonatack · Pull Request #24555 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
455 2022-03-17T19:18:15  <laanwj> i don't think port preference ever plays a role on regtest, as all connections are manual
456 2022-03-17T19:18:28  <luke-jr> were there any major changes to descriptor wallets between 21/22.x and 23.x?
457 2022-03-17T19:18:33  <luke-jr> besides adding Taproot
458 2022-03-17T19:18:56  <jonatack> (e.g. convert the I2P testing section for v22 to CJDNS)
459 2022-03-17T19:19:08  <stickies-v> hmm okay didn't know that, will reconsider 1. then and leave it out if I don't find any good way to test efficiently
460 2022-03-17T19:19:14  <achow101> stickies-v: I don't feel strongly either way. frankly, it's such a small change that there isn't much that could go wrong
461 2022-03-17T19:19:17  <laanwj> but if you consider it like that, all functional tests test non-default ports, as they pseudo-randomly assign ports
462 2022-03-17T19:20:15  <MarcoFalke> I think the most important testing is of the parts that everyone assumes *not* to be changed.
463 2022-03-17T19:20:52  <luke-jr> true
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465 2022-03-17T19:21:04  <MarcoFalke> Surely, it is important that new features are tested, but even more importantly everything else shouldn't break
466 2022-03-17T19:21:04  <jonatack> 3, 4, and 5 may be well-tested already (if I'm not mistaken), not sure if there is much value in people checking those
467 2022-03-17T19:21:08  <laanwj> also testing it with third-party programs is always interesting (i guess e.g. joinmarket, c-lightning are covered)
468 2022-03-17T19:21:09  <lightlike> I think it should work to addpeeradress a couple of fantasy addresses with default/non default ports and take statistics what it tries to connect to.
469 2022-03-17T19:22:04  <luke-jr> new features are probably more tested already too
470 2022-03-17T19:22:10  <MarcoFalke> Jup, any business or third party software should have a test suite to check that their use of Bitcoin Core doesn't break with an upgrade
471 2022-03-17T19:22:28  <stickies-v> MarcoFalke: that's a good point but I'm not sure if that's something we can make actionable in this testing guide?
472 2022-03-17T19:22:48  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
473 2022-03-17T19:22:52  <stickies-v> I think it's more of an intro get people familiar with testing and with what's changing
474 2022-03-17T19:22:56  <laanwj> right, the testing guide is more about giving peopel specific focus what they could test, if it's just "what you are doing already" it's short
475 2022-03-17T19:24:17  <stickies-v> alright thank you for the ideas everyone, I'll look into all of these suggestions and revert next week with a draft of the guide
476 2022-03-17T19:24:29  <michaelfolkson> Ok makes sense. Leave it up to your judgment then stickies-v :)
477 2022-03-17T19:24:30  <jonatack> right, the reason i mention the cjdns testing is also that there are more moving parts, platforms, cases and possible issues that may not have been seen yet
478 2022-03-17T19:24:31  <laanwj> thanks!
479 2022-03-17T19:24:40  <laanwj> let's move to next topic
480 2022-03-17T19:24:45  <laanwj> #topic Adjusted time offset warning (MarcoFalke)
481 2022-03-17T19:24:45  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Adjusted time offset warning (MarcoFalke)
482 2022-03-17T19:25:07  <MarcoFalke> So while the adjusted time was improved over the last couple of years, it still has some shortcomings
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484 2022-03-17T19:25:18  <laanwj> i've always felt really uncomfortable with the time adjustment code
485 2022-03-17T19:25:31  <laanwj> can't we just like phase it out
486 2022-03-17T19:25:45  <MarcoFalke> Just to mention a few: (1) non-monotonic (2) adjusted by peers ...
487 2022-03-17T19:26:04  <MarcoFalke> So I was thinking to simply remove it and replace it with a stronger warning mechanism
488 2022-03-17T19:26:27  <laanwj> adjusted by peers based on unauthenticated cleartext data, based on strange criteria which we're too scared to touch
489 2022-03-17T19:26:36  <laanwj> ack
490 2022-03-17T19:26:47  <luke-jr> sounds like a good idea IMO
491 2022-03-17T19:26:57  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
492 2022-03-17T19:27:01  <MarcoFalke> The question is how to warn?
493 2022-03-17T19:27:12  <laanwj> isn't there a warnings field on some RPC call
494 2022-03-17T19:27:13  <lightlike> what would that "stronger warning mechanism" look like?
495 2022-03-17T19:27:20  <luke-jr> laanwj: GUI can probably use improvement
496 2022-03-17T19:27:23  <MarcoFalke> We can't warn at startup, as only the local system time is available
497 2022-03-17T19:27:38  <luke-jr> maybe the sync overlay could be a good place for it
498 2022-03-17T19:28:11  <MarcoFalke> I think the GUI is already good. There will be a orange warning, very hard to miss
499 2022-03-17T19:28:50  <laanwj> yes that seems fine to use
500 2022-03-17T19:28:55  <MarcoFalke> (For reference there is a long thread at #4521 with cross-links)
501 2022-03-17T19:28:56  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4521 | AddTimeData will never update nTimeOffset past 199 samples · Issue #4521 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
502 2022-03-17T19:28:57  <laanwj> it doesn't have to be at startup
503 2022-03-17T19:29:23  <laanwj> warnings can be added at any time (it is, or was, used for some other network conditions too)
504 2022-03-17T19:29:26  <MarcoFalke> So one option I was thinking about was to just shut down the node. Does that seem too agressive?
505 2022-03-17T19:29:33  <laanwj> way too aggressive
506 2022-03-17T19:29:47  <laanwj> just log a message and make it available on a RPC call
507 2022-03-17T19:29:56  <laanwj> like we've always done for warnings
508 2022-03-17T19:30:19  <MarcoFalke> It seems unlikely the user will ping the RPC regularly to get the warning
509 2022-03-17T19:30:22  <laanwj> making it possible for peers to shut down your node by flooding you with massaged time values is even worse than we have now
510 2022-03-17T19:30:30  <laanwj> for fact, they do
511 2022-03-17T19:30:48  <luke-jr> maybe safe mode wasn't a terrible idea
512 2022-03-17T19:30:49  <laanwj> or at least used to when warnings were more common i don't know nowadays
513 2022-03-17T19:31:02  <MarcoFalke> ok, good point
514 2022-03-17T19:31:22  *** JesseBarton <JesseBarton!~JesseBart@ip72-203-188-10.tu.ok.cox.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Client closed)
515 2022-03-17T19:31:25  <luke-jr> laanwj: otoh, if all your peers are, maybe you want new peers..
516 2022-03-17T19:31:27  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: I don't think there is a need to shut down the wallet? I think this mostly affects the mining code
517 2022-03-17T19:31:45  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: I would expect miners to be monitoring the node state closely
518 2022-03-17T19:32:12  <laanwj> i think it would be valid to strip out the time adjustment system completely, just leave it up to the user's responsibility to have their time correct, like other software does
519 2022-03-17T19:32:14  <MarcoFalke> So my other idea was to throw an exception in getblocktemplate. Does that seem too agressive?
520 2022-03-17T19:32:22  <laanwj> having a warning is nice but i don't see it as cirical
521 2022-03-17T19:32:47  <laanwj> not sure why this would need a more aggressive mechanism than other warnings
522 2022-03-17T19:32:57  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: also, miners are likely to internally only have peers with their own nodes
523 2022-03-17T19:33:14  <luke-jr> so throwing in GBT won't be helpful IMO
524 2022-03-17T19:33:21  <jeremyrubin> could also have something like walletnotify where we call a script to get the time
525 2022-03-17T19:34:05  <jeremyrubin> that would make it possible for pluggin in an arbiitrary time source if users don't want their system time
526 2022-03-17T19:34:09  <laanwj> come on, it's 2022, computers tend to have correct system time these days
527 2022-03-17T19:34:26  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: idk why we would support not using system time
528 2022-03-17T19:34:45  <laanwj> if you want to mess aroudn with the time for whatever reason there's faketime and even time namespaces in newer linux kernels
529 2022-03-17T19:34:48  <MarcoFalke> ok, I mean I am fine just removing it. I just wanted to see if there is something we could do better
530 2022-03-17T19:34:52  <luke-jr> laanwj: exactly
531 2022-03-17T19:35:34  <luke-jr> we have mockable time too
532 2022-03-17T19:35:41  <jeremyrubin> i just mean that if you want behavior for "my peers think the time is different" you could let that be configured as a script callback
533 2022-03-17T19:35:42  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: Not for main-net
534 2022-03-17T19:35:50  <laanwj> MarcoFalke: so i would say the proposal to change it to a warning is fine, for now, it can always be fully removed later if we want, but i don't think it needs a more aggressive mechanism
535 2022-03-17T19:36:06  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: could be trivially enabled if desired
536 2022-03-17T19:36:09  <MarcoFalke> laanwj: I think a warning already exists
537 2022-03-17T19:36:19  <MarcoFalke> I can add a new dedicated RPC for it, too
538 2022-03-17T19:36:26  <laanwj> not sure a dedicated RPC would be better
539 2022-03-17T19:36:37  <jeremyrubin> (you can also crontab and parse the log for the warning, which is fine)
540 2022-03-17T19:36:38  <laanwj> things like warnings are better grouped, so people don't have to listen for everything separately
541 2022-03-17T19:36:47  <MarcoFalke> I guess a dedicated RPC would make jeremyrubin also happy
542 2022-03-17T19:37:14  <laanwj> don't we have the time delta in RPC already somewhere
543 2022-03-17T19:37:27  <MarcoFalke> getpeerinfo, maybe?
544 2022-03-17T19:37:46  <MarcoFalke> At least the GUI shows it in the peers tab
545 2022-03-17T19:37:48  * jeremyrubin ponders the nature of happiness 
546 2022-03-17T19:38:19  <jeremyrubin> i will say that a good portion of nodes might be running on centralized time servers
547 2022-03-17T19:38:52  <laanwj> i think it's ok to make the information available, dont' think a new RPC is worth it
548 2022-03-17T19:38:54  <jeremyrubin> so this might be giving someone somewhere the "brick all the nodes" key
549 2022-03-17T19:39:01  <jonatack> getpeerinfo has a timeoffset field in seconds
550 2022-03-17T19:39:03  <jeremyrubin> but i don't think it's the biggest deal
551 2022-03-17T19:39:11  <laanwj> it's not like the time adjustment scheme really protected against that
552 2022-03-17T19:39:39  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: … someone who can centrally control your server's time, can probably just shut off the power too
553 2022-03-17T19:39:40  <laanwj> if you can sabotage a centralized timeserver sure you could mess up things for a bit until people figure it out
554 2022-03-17T19:40:09  <jeremyrubin>  luke-jr: i would expect apple can change my laptops time, but i don't think they can shut my power off
555 2022-03-17T19:40:23  <laanwj> they could probably delete all software from your system at least
556 2022-03-17T19:40:35  <luke-jr> that seems naive, but I understand - thought you meant VPS with a shared kernel
557 2022-03-17T19:40:44  <MarcoFalke> adjusted time really only protects against a 30 or 60 minute offset (DST/time zone) for at most half a year
558 2022-03-17T19:41:40  <laanwj> in any case, if you're serious about mitigating attacks on timeservers i'd guess that has a much bigger scope than bitcoin
559 2022-03-17T19:41:58  <laanwj> like, run your own atomic clock and adjust your system time to it
560 2022-03-17T19:42:39  <MarcoFalke> adjust your system time to Bitcoin (timechain) MTP
561 2022-03-17T19:43:06  <laanwj> btw, ntp also allows for only very small on the fly changes
562 2022-03-17T19:43:09  <MarcoFalke> (obviously don't do that)
563 2022-03-17T19:43:20  <laanwj> it's not like your ntp server can suddenly warp you back hours or days
564 2022-03-17T19:44:28  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:f97b:bd76:25aa:a0d3> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
565 2022-03-17T19:45:06  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: might not be terrible tbh
566 2022-03-17T19:45:12  <luke-jr> if you have a working monotonic clock
567 2022-03-17T19:45:23  <laanwj> at boot up it will probably accept any time, especially on embedded systems without a RTC, but that's also easiest to detect
568 2022-03-17T19:45:37  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: You might miss blocks if MTP is lagging too much
569 2022-03-17T19:46:53  <laanwj> it's also hardly a 'brick all the nodes' key if you have to wait for all servers running nodes to reboot first :)
570 2022-03-17T19:47:39  <Earnest> monotonic vs bootime might be worth considering as monotonic clocks tend to stop when systems sleep afaiui
571 2022-03-17T19:48:06  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: well, you'd have to do MTP + 30 minutes at least. a bit of buffer would help handle stuff like this.
572 2022-03-17T19:48:11  *** ifeanyi <ifeanyi!~ifeanyi@> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
573 2022-03-17T19:48:21  <Earnest> Ah, nevermind https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d6ed449afdb38f89a7b38ec50e367559e1b8f71f
574 2022-03-17T19:48:53  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:f97b:bd76:25aa:a0d3> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
575 2022-03-17T19:48:56  <luke-jr> laanwj: modern systems constantly sync their clocks over NTP, not just at boot
576 2022-03-17T19:48:58  <laanwj> Earnest: monotonic clocks are only used for measuring time intervals, so that's fine, usually
577 2022-03-17T19:49:05  <luke-jr> though maybe only within some limited drift
578 2022-03-17T19:49:09  <laanwj> luke-jr: yes, but only minimal adjustments
579 2022-03-17T19:49:50  <laanwj> at least that's how linux ntpd works, i have no idea about other OSes
580 2022-03-17T19:50:20  <luke-jr> lots of people use systemd OS now :p
581 2022-03-17T19:50:38  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
582 2022-03-17T19:50:55  <luke-jr> (it ate ntpd)
583 2022-03-17T19:51:23  <jonatack> getnetworkinfo has a timeoffset field that is our GetTimeOffset() result, IIUC,  as opposed to the offset for each peer in getpeerinfo
584 2022-03-17T19:51:25  <Earnest> As systemd-timesyncd which is sntpd implementation
585 2022-03-17T19:51:42  <laanwj> i mean, with all the complications and exceptions it's not realistic as an attack on bitcoin, that's all i was trying to say
586 2022-03-17T19:52:14  <laanwj> jonatack: nice, so that too already exists
587 2022-03-17T19:53:27  <luke-jr> maybe getblocktemplate should throw if there's a known better-except-for-time-just-barely block?
588 2022-03-17T19:53:41  <luke-jr> seems more likely to cause than solve problems tho
589 2022-03-17T19:54:14  <MarcoFalke> luke-jr: How often did that happen in the last 10 years?
590 2022-03-17T19:54:19  *** Guest28 <Guest28!~Guest28@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
591 2022-03-17T19:54:26  <luke-jr> MarcoFalke: no clue
592 2022-03-17T19:54:43  <jonatack> (and only outbound peers offsets contribute to our timedata samples to make it harder for peers to tamper with our adjusted time... src/net_processing.cpp::2761)
593 2022-03-17T19:54:55  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
594 2022-03-17T19:54:56  <luke-jr> kinda doubt miners would risk getting so close to the time cutoff
595 2022-03-17T19:55:00  <Guest28> stickies-v: 1 can be tested for non default ports, you just need to look for nodes that are using such ports. There are different ways to do it.
596 2022-03-17T19:56:32  <laanwj> right i would be surprised if miners weren't already really careful about having correct time on their machines, to rule that out as a reason to miss a block reward
597 2022-03-17T19:56:37  *** Guest28 <Guest28!~Guest28@> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
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599 2022-03-17T19:57:48  <laanwj> any well-meaning protective mechanism added on top might just get in the way in case of some edge case
600 2022-03-17T19:58:26  <MarcoFalke> Even if one miner is back by 1h and another one forward by 1h, it shouldn't lead to any issues
601 2022-03-17T19:58:37  <MarcoFalke> Only if the difference is more than 2h
602 2022-03-17T19:58:42  <laanwj> sure
603 2022-03-17T19:59:32  <MarcoFalke> Well, thanks everyone for the input!
604 2022-03-17T20:00:25  <laanwj> it's time to close the meeting
605 2022-03-17T20:00:28  <laanwj> #endmeeting
606 2022-03-17T20:00:28  <core-meetingbot`> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
607 2022-03-17T20:00:28  <core-meetingbot`> Meeting ended Thu Mar 17 20:00:27 2022 UTC.
608 2022-03-17T20:00:28  <core-meetingbot`> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-03-17-19.00.moin.txt
609 2022-03-17T20:04:12  <jonatack> I wonder how many people adjust the -maxtimeadjustment config option (default 70 minutes) on their nodes and with what values
610 2022-03-17T20:04:32  <jonatack> miners, maybe?
611 2022-03-17T20:05:46  <dongcarl> Hi all I just set up https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/18 to keep track of all the libbitcoinkernel PRs
612 2022-03-17T20:06:31  <laanwj> dongcarl: awesome!
613 2022-03-17T20:06:41  <dongcarl> One question: there are a few PRs which others have opened that will help make future work in libbitcoinkernel easier, can I add an "Relevant External PRs" column to keep track of those?
614 2022-03-17T20:06:55  <jonatack> seems to be some good discussion of -maxtimeadjustment tradeoffs in #7573
615 2022-03-17T20:06:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7573 | P2P: add maxtimeadjustment command line option by mruddy · Pull Request #7573 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
616 2022-03-17T20:07:28  <jonatack> dongcarl: nice / sgtm
617 2022-03-17T20:07:47  <laanwj> i disabled time adjustment entirely for a while but i don't think i'm still bothering in my current configs
618 2022-03-17T20:08:23  <laanwj> dongcarl: yes, feel free to organize the project board as is useful for you
619 2022-03-17T20:08:41  *** An0rak <An0rak!An0rak@user/an0rak> has quit IRC ()
620 2022-03-17T20:09:04  <dongcarl> Also, I'm a bit confused as to what the conclusion of the timedata conversation was above, will we remove it?
621 2022-03-17T20:09:49  <laanwj> dongcarl: i don't think there was a conclusion
622 2022-03-17T20:10:24  <dongcarl> Okay got it. Will operate under the assumption that we're not imminently removing it then
623 2022-03-17T20:10:27  <jeremyrubin> one option we didn't discuss (i think?) is that we can phase it out by continuing to send out our time messages but not reading them... that way we don't let old nodes who rely on these time broadcasts get attacked
624 2022-03-17T20:10:59  <jeremyrubin> so it can be a thing where we'll happily tell anyone our time, but not care about others time
625 2022-03-17T20:13:15  <laanwj> i don't think there is any proposal to remove the time from version messages?
626 2022-03-17T20:13:56  *** Talkless <Talkless!~Talkless@mail.dargis.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
627 2022-03-17T20:14:13  <laanwj> well i think i heard it mentioned as a fingerprinting vector once, but it's definitely not the same proposal as stopping doing time adjustment
628 2022-03-17T20:16:29  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
629 2022-03-17T20:16:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8435d7f11a89...e09cf64c4828
630 2022-03-17T20:16:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bf84677 fanquake: doc: cleanup wallet docs in build-osx.md
631 2022-03-17T20:16:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 57f3f5c fanquake: doc: s/Compiler/Dependency in dependencies.md
632 2022-03-17T20:16:29  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e09cf64 MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24585: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy walle...
633 2022-03-17T20:16:29  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
634 2022-03-17T20:16:45  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
635 2022-03-17T20:16:45  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24585: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy wallet in build-osx.md (master...build_osx_descriptor_legacy_switch) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24585
636 2022-03-17T20:16:45  *** bitcoin-git <bitcoin-git!~bitcoin-g@x0f.org> has left #bitcoin-core-dev
637 2022-03-17T20:16:51  <jonatack> hm, maybe a first step (if people think it's an improvement) would be to change the default -maxtimeadjustment
638 2022-03-17T20:16:59  <laanwj> it'd be a BIP level change; mind that the version message was always the only time adjustment input, there is no 'time message'
639 2022-03-17T20:17:19  <MarcoFalke> We can save that for the cleanup-version-msg-bip
640 2022-03-17T20:17:25  <laanwj> yes
641 2022-03-17T20:17:33  <MarcoFalke> Pretty sure there is other stuff in the version message that needs to be removed
642 2022-03-17T20:17:41  <laanwj> correct
643 2022-03-17T20:18:34  *** ghost43 <ghost43!~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
644 2022-03-17T20:19:20  *** ghost43 <ghost43!~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
645 2022-03-17T20:19:34  <lightlike> just noting that with 23.0, we don't use any timestamps from inbound peers anymore (#23631) - that should help with some concerns at least.
646 2022-03-17T20:19:35  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23631 | p2p: Dont use timestamps from inbound peers for Adjusted Time by mzumsande · Pull Request #23631 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
647 2022-03-17T20:19:55  <laanwj> that said, system time in seconds is a pretty lousy fingerprinting vector, and besides, it's also part of many lower level network packets already, so removing it from the bitcoin protocol doesn't do that much to prevent it being used
648 2022-03-17T20:21:20  <jonatack> lightlike: yes, mentioned that during the meeting (https://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/log-2022-03-17.html#l-592)
649 2022-03-17T20:21:26  <laanwj> (this is where centralization of time actually helps for privacy i guess :-)
650 2022-03-17T20:24:22  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
651 2022-03-17T20:24:24  <MarcoFalke> lightlike: jonatack: right, that makes it harder to attack adjusted time, but it retains the issues of adjusted time that are present even in the absence of attacks
652 2022-03-17T20:24:26  <jonatack> jeremyrubin: setting the default -maxtimeadjustment to 0 would take care of that, I guess
653 2022-03-17T20:25:27  <jonatack> and users could opt in to allowing peers to adjust the timedata
654 2022-03-17T20:25:34  <laanwj> so that would imply anyone would voluntarily want to enable it
655 2022-03-17T20:26:01  <laanwj> but it definitely would be the most straightforward change, sure
656 2022-03-17T20:28:05  *** sipsorcery <sipsorcery!~sipsorcer@2a02:8084:6180:500::12b> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
657 2022-03-17T20:35:31  *** hashfunc569 <hashfunc569!~user@2601:5c0:c280:7090:78e9:5f82:1899:8c96> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
658 2022-03-17T20:39:49  *** Guest28 <Guest28!~Guest28@> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
659 2022-03-17T20:40:42  <Guest28> Hi, I would like to know if there is some upcoming privacy method to Bitcoin Core. Even something basic like PayJoin would be nice. Thx!
660 2022-03-17T20:41:13  <jonatack> yes, i don't know. people seemed to want it on by default in the discussion in #7573. perhaps things have changed as you mentioned earlier above.
661 2022-03-17T20:41:15  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7573 | P2P: add maxtimeadjustment command line option by mruddy · Pull Request #7573 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
662 2022-03-17T20:42:18  <jonatack> Guest28: see https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/23.0-Release-Notes-draft
663 2022-03-17T20:42:55  <Guest28> jonatack ok, thx! ;)
664 2022-03-17T20:45:44  <Guest28> jonatack I don't find any information related to transaction privacy there
665 2022-03-17T20:45:54  <jonatack> hm, cjdns isn't in the release notes
666 2022-03-17T20:46:17  <Guest28> (I mean blockchain privacy, not Tor related features)
667 2022-03-17T20:46:59  <jonatack> Guest28: there may be some items still missing from the release notes draft, but IIRC not a change like you are looking for in v23
668 2022-03-17T20:49:02  <Guest28> jonatack ok! Is there any chance the upcoming Mimblewimble solution on extension blocks on Litecoin will come to Bitcoin Core? :)
669 2022-03-17T20:50:38  <Guest28> All risks are contained to the extension block and increases capacity as MW transactions are very small. People could have their savings in the main block (public) and use the extension block for their expenses.
670 2022-03-17T20:51:29  *** ghost43 <ghost43!~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
671 2022-03-17T20:52:13  *** ghost43 <ghost43!~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
672 2022-03-17T20:54:36  <laanwj> this channel is for implementation issues, the mailing list or #bitcoin-wizards would be a better place to discuss proposed consensus changes
673 2022-03-17T20:55:41  <Guest28> laanwj ok, I will ask there, thx! :)
674 2022-03-17T20:56:22  <laanwj> jonatack: yes, not sure how much changed in opinions there since 2016, i've always been uncomfortable with the node time adjustment system as it is (also clear from my replies there), but not everyone shares that sentiment obviously
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682 2022-03-17T21:11:54  <jeremyrubin> jonatack: that seems right
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685 2022-03-17T21:14:08  <Guest58> jonatack: cjdns isnt a network focused on privacy: a) it is not shared in their goals or wp on github: https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/blob/master/doc/projectGoals.md
686 2022-03-17T21:14:10  <Guest58> b) testimonials prove its not a priority c) encryption is not always privacy
687 2022-03-17T21:14:16  <Guest58> Its tring to solve different problems and using ipv6.
688 2022-03-17T21:14:23  <Guest58> *trying
689 2022-03-17T21:14:44  *** Guest58 <Guest58!~Guest58@> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
690 2022-03-17T21:16:23  <laanwj> no, cjdns is not a privacy network, this is well-known, its usecase is for mesh networks, I2P and Tor are supported privacy overlay networks
691 2022-03-17T21:18:57  <laanwj> besides, mind that privacy requires a large anonimity set so if that's your goal, using something more obscure than Tor or maybe I2P could end up making you less instead of more private
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708 2022-03-17T22:47:26  <jonatack> Guest58: yes sorry, I noticed that cjdns isn't in the release notes draft but didn't intend to suggest that it was an answer to your question.
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710 2022-03-17T22:59:57  <Guest7843> jonatack: it wasnt me. we can select our own nick in webchat using this url: https://web.libera.chat/#bitcoin-core-dev and GuestN can be anyone. N depends if its available imo. Guest99 at 00:00 UTC wont me same as Guest99 at 00:30 most of the times.
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