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 14 2022-03-27T00:54:23  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg reopened pull request #24687: test: Check an invalid -i2psam will raise an init error (master...2022-03-add-invalid-proxy-test) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24687
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 47 2022-03-27T04:58:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #24686: ci: Clean package manager cache on CentOS (master...220326-dnf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24686
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 92 2022-03-27T10:20:33  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak opened pull request #24688: build, qt: drop fix_no_printer patch, add  (master...qt5-5.15.3+patches) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24688
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 96 2022-03-27T10:48:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] prusnak closed pull request #24688: build, qt: drop fix_no_printer patch, add CVE fixes (master...qt5-5.15.3+patches) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24688
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 99 2022-03-27T11:05:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #24684: build, qt: Drop fix_no_printer.patch (master...220326-qtprint) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24684
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129 2022-03-27T13:44:00  <smartsanctions> https://web.archive.org/web/20220327132603/https://twitter.com/gladstein/status/1507969143689023495
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216 2022-03-27T21:37:16  <jeremyrubin> bitcoin core doesn't have an API for getting a valid pubkey for taproot does it?
217 2022-03-27T21:37:25  <jeremyrubin> trying to figure out if it's something worth having
218 2022-03-27T21:37:39  <jeremyrubin> the way i can think of doing it is getnewaddress and getaddressinfo
219 2022-03-27T21:37:47  <jeremyrubin> but that's not guaranteed to be a TR address
220 2022-03-27T21:37:58  <jeremyrubin> and the top-level key in theory could be NUMS
221 2022-03-27T21:39:28  <sipa> any public key is valid for tr()
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223 2022-03-27T21:40:53  <jeremyrubin> that's not true
224 2022-03-27T21:41:04  <jeremyrubin> i want a valid spendable one
225 2022-03-27T21:41:21  <jeremyrubin> e.g. if i do getaddressinfo the top-level key i can see might be NUMs
226 2022-03-27T21:41:28  <sipa> i mean any public key you generate
227 2022-03-27T21:41:31  <jeremyrubin> yes
228 2022-03-27T21:41:46  <jeremyrubin> i would like core to generate a a public key and give it to me
229 2022-03-27T21:42:07  <jeremyrubin> since it does hardened derivation i cant do it my own
230 2022-03-27T21:42:15  <jeremyrubin> but i'd want the key and maybe the path?
231 2022-03-27T21:42:28  <sipa> what do you want this for?
232 2022-03-27T21:42:33  <jeremyrubin> e.g. if i want to create a multisig address let's say
233 2022-03-27T21:43:06  <sipa> yeah, there isn't a good interface for that
234 2022-03-27T21:43:10  <jeremyrubin> i want to input the key into Miniscript and have my core wallet be able to sign a psbt
235 2022-03-27T21:43:18  <sipa> though i think generating pubkeys manually is too low level
236 2022-03-27T21:43:26  <jeremyrubin> are there any reasons not to expose that?
237 2022-03-27T21:43:33  <sipa> you generally want xpubs or xpub paths for using in a descriptir
238 2022-03-27T21:43:36  <jeremyrubin> sipa: it's not manually, it's done through software
239 2022-03-27T21:43:44  <jeremyrubin> sipa: but core does hardened derivation
240 2022-03-27T21:43:51  <jeremyrubin> i would like core to give me a hardened key
241 2022-03-27T21:43:53  <sipa> sure, i mean: not per individual key
242 2022-03-27T21:44:10  <sipa> @jeremyrubin Only if you use hardened derivation paths
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244 2022-03-27T21:44:30  <sipa> You can construct descriptors with unhardened paths too
245 2022-03-27T21:44:39  <jeremyrubin> but wrt miniscript, i still need to send a deriv path to core and get the actual key back
246 2022-03-27T21:44:50  <jeremyrubin> i cant otherwise create the address from third party software
247 2022-03-27T21:44:55  <jeremyrubin> since it's a hardened path...
248 2022-03-27T21:45:10  <jeremyrubin> theres also not a way to dump XPUB right now AFAIU
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250 2022-03-27T21:47:24  <sipa> All keys are linked to a descriptor in descriptor wallets, I believe. So you can't really ask to generate a key without risking having that key being reused in an address.
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255 2022-03-27T21:47:56  <sipa> You can export xpubs or xprvs.
256 2022-03-27T21:48:01  <jeremyrubin> hmm isn't there an application prefix?
257 2022-03-27T21:48:03  <jeremyrubin> (for context, hit up on this in Sapio studio where i want to input keys for spend paths into a vault contract, but don't really have any clear way to actually get a key a core node would be able to sign for)
258 2022-03-27T21:48:17  <sipa> Or rather, descriptors with or without private key data.
259 2022-03-27T21:48:25  <sipa> What are application prefixes?
260 2022-03-27T21:48:44  <jeremyrubin> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/78993/default-derivation-paths
261 2022-03-27T21:49:18  <sipa> Yes, but you can choose them freely when importing, and they're also part of exported descriptors.
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263 2022-03-27T21:52:56  <sipa> You could try to export an existing descriptor, use its key expression with a slightly or non-hardened different path or so, and re-import that.
264 2022-03-27T21:53:03  <jeremyrubin> Ok it sounds like the flow might be:
265 2022-03-27T21:53:20  <sipa> Not sure if that works; the private key may be tied to the descriptor it came from.
266 2022-03-27T21:53:35  <sipa> Certainly easier to just generate a new xprv externally and import that.
267 2022-03-27T21:55:42  <jeremyrubin> sipa: yes but in theory i want to prefer cores rng lol
268 2022-03-27T21:55:51  <jeremyrubin> and then i need to backup a new thing
269 2022-03-27T21:56:54  <sipa> maybe there could be a feature to generating a fresh xpub (whose private key gets stored in the wallet)?
270 2022-03-27T21:56:59  <jeremyrubin> listdescript => filter for tr => getdescriptorinfo => check if isSolvable => deriveaddresses? but then the issue there is reuse...
271 2022-03-27T21:57:11  <sipa> so you can construct descriptor key expressions from that
272 2022-03-27T21:57:16  <jeremyrubin> still need ot back up a new thing
273 2022-03-27T21:57:21  <jeremyrubin> prefer to have 1 seed backup
274 2022-03-27T21:57:31  <sipa> that's not how core works
275 2022-03-27T21:57:47  <sipa> if you're going to be importing a descriptor anyway, you'll need a new backup regardless
276 2022-03-27T21:58:04  <jeremyrubin> I thought you can rebuild most wallet state with a reindex
277 2022-03-27T21:58:10  <jeremyrubin> and just a seed backup
278 2022-03-27T21:58:29  <sipa> for bitcoin core you need a backup of the wallet.dat
279 2022-03-27T21:58:39  <jeremyrubin> when?
280 2022-03-27T21:58:44  <sipa> or since recently, a dump of the private descriptors will also work
281 2022-03-27T21:58:56  <sipa> since descriptor wallets
282 2022-03-27T21:59:19  <jeremyrubin> i mean "after which events"
283 2022-03-27T21:59:22  <jeremyrubin> i just made a backup
284 2022-03-27T21:59:26  <jeremyrubin> when do i backup again
285 2022-03-27T21:59:28  <sipa> after importing anything
286 2022-03-27T21:59:47  <jeremyrubin> so the difference is that
287 2022-03-27T21:59:55  <jeremyrubin> for the seed it's the _private_ materials
288 2022-03-27T22:00:04  <jeremyrubin> which the backup procedures are different for IMO
289 2022-03-27T22:00:15  <sipa> they can be, in theory
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291 2022-03-27T22:00:28  <sipa> but that's not how it works in bitcoin core's wallet
292 2022-03-27T22:00:36  <jeremyrubin> for a non-priv bearing descriptor, i can back it up to e.g. cloud storage
293 2022-03-27T22:00:49  <sipa> yes, i'm aware
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295 2022-03-27T22:01:13  <sipa> but again, that's not how it works; the supported procedure is backing up your wallet.dat
296 2022-03-27T22:01:43  <jeremyrubin> i dont think for the thing im doing you need to backup anything in core
297 2022-03-27T22:01:49  <jeremyrubin> the descriptors arent being kept in core
298 2022-03-27T22:01:54  <jeremyrubin> theyre kept externally
299 2022-03-27T22:01:56  <sipa> yes they are
300 2022-03-27T22:02:08  <jeremyrubin> i just need core to spit out a derivation path and key?
301 2022-03-27T22:02:09  <sipa> if you want bitcoin core to use them you need to import them
302 2022-03-27T22:02:19  <jeremyrubin> yes, but they dont need to be backed up
303 2022-03-27T22:02:27  <jeremyrubin> because this application layer can always re-import them
304 2022-03-27T22:02:36  <jeremyrubin> it will "own" them afterwards
305 2022-03-27T22:02:43  <jeremyrubin> but core still has the signing authority
306 2022-03-27T22:04:53  <sipa> achow101 probably has a better idea how something like that could be supported
307 2022-03-27T22:05:10  <sipa> it wasn't clear to me you just wanted the ability to sign
308 2022-03-27T22:05:17  <jeremyrubin> yeah
309 2022-03-27T22:05:29  <jeremyrubin> im happy to treat all the other data as responsibility of client
310 2022-03-27T22:05:50  <sipa> i'm not sure it's possible to do something like that currently
311 2022-03-27T22:05:53  <jeremyrubin> it's a pretty straighforward architecture that you treat core as your 'key enclave' and then it will give you data out that it could later sign for
312 2022-03-27T22:06:08  <jeremyrubin> maybe it's a separate software project for a virtual key enclave...
313 2022-03-27T22:06:55  <jeremyrubin> but it'd be nice if it's core because it's good to have like all the wallet and descriptor stuff working in that, as well as other things core can do
314 2022-03-27T22:09:08  <jeremyrubin> thanks for your time!
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