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 66 2022-05-15T07:14:39  *** Kaizen_Kintsugi_ <Kaizen_Kintsugi_!~Kaizen_Ki@2600:8802:3806:c200:3c67:f8b:edb7:5828> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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 68 2022-05-15T07:21:14  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/225e5b57b2ee...b74a6dde8cf5
 69 2022-05-15T07:21:15  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4faa550 Fabian Jahr: test: Fix race condition in index pruning test
 70 2022-05-15T07:21:15  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b74a6dd MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25123: test: Fix race condition in index prune test
 71 2022-05-15T07:21:17  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25123: test: Fix race condition in index prune test (master...202205-index-prune-fix) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25123
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149 2022-05-15T17:57:53  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Empact closed pull request #24811: refactor: Prepare for moving ArgsManager out of util/system (master...2022-03-util-args-manager-prep) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24811
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162 2022-05-15T18:56:52  <bytes1440000> Some questions after reading the comments post merge in #23789
163 2022-05-15T18:56:54  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23789 | wallet: Strictly match tx change type to improve privacy by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #23789 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
164 2022-05-15T18:57:15  <bytes1440000> 1. Taproot improves privacy if its used more and 2of2 looks same as single sig. This pull request makes it difficult to achieve that level of adoption. Does this pull request really improve privacy?
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166 2022-05-15T18:57:27  <bytes1440000> 2. achow101 mentioned that there is  plenty of time until 23.0 to change it, and changing the order of preferences would not be particularly difficult. Is it already done?
167 2022-05-15T18:57:34  <bytes1440000> 3. Is it possible to enable/disable this in settings? Some users may want to completely avoid change in a transaction instead of using similar addresses
168 2022-05-15T18:57:42  <bytes1440000> 4. Jeremy Rubin made a good point in this comment: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23789#issuecomment-998303608 And the observability of this pattern (change matching) is also... pretty observable, especially if bitcoin core (and only upgraded wallets) are the ones doing it.”
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170 2022-05-15T19:07:23  <achow101> bytes1440000: 1. Given that taproot has not been widely adopted yet, there is still a marginal privacy gain from matching change types. 2. the order was not changed. 3. Users can force a particular change type using -changetype.
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172 2022-05-15T19:08:01  <achow101> there's also ongoing work and discussion on changing the automatic change type to be smarter and consider input types as well
173 2022-05-15T19:09:34  <bytes1440000> achow101: thanks
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186 2022-05-15T19:51:37  <bytes1440000> Forgot to share this:
187 2022-05-15T19:52:15  <bytes1440000> One respected LN dev from blockstream believes taproot does not improve privacy for public LN channels: https://nitter.net/niftynei/status/1523053148935696384
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191 2022-05-15T20:07:35  <luke-jr> master GUI appears to segfault if it gets an unsupported wallet format :/
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193 2022-05-15T20:13:20  <fjahr> bytes1440000: Sorry but this is off topic here, this channel isn't discussing Lightning Network development.
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196 2022-05-15T20:22:28  <bytes1440000> fjahr: I understand this channel is used for bitcoin core which is used by majority of bitcoin nodes. Sorry if it was off topic although context was taproot, above messages related to 2of2 multisig and PR #23789
197 2022-05-15T20:22:29  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23789 | wallet: Strictly match tx change type to improve privacy by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #23789 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
198 2022-05-15T20:22:57  <bytes1440000> luke-jr: there was a tweet recently about other implementations and I noticed knots usage has spiked 6x in last few months. Were there any special features any added in last knots release or is it some new projects that have only recently begun to use alternative implementations?
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200 2022-05-15T20:26:09  <bytes1440000> https://coin.dance/nodes
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204 2022-05-15T20:46:38  <fjahr> bytes1440000: Sure, I was only talking about the niftynei post. It doesn't seem to hint at issues with Taproot itself but rather its use in LN and potential false promises around that. That's why I think most people here would prefer this conversation happening in a different channel :)
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207 2022-05-15T20:53:56  <bytes1440000> fjahr:iiuc most of the people use 20f2 or 2of3 mutlsig in bitcoin based on https://mempool.observer/monitor/ and 2of2 is mostly used for lightning
208 2022-05-15T20:54:03  <bytes1440000> so my point is not off topic for this channel when discussing pull request
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210 2022-05-15T20:54:58  <bytes1440000> #23789
211 2022-05-15T20:54:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23789 | An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
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214 2022-05-15T21:04:34  <luke-jr> bytes1440000: most recent thing with Knots was the 21.x LTS branch, which I plan to maintain longer than Core's - so maybe look at what version people are using?
215 2022-05-15T21:06:23  <luke-jr> that being said, I don't see any notable increase in my more accurate node counting, so maybe existing users just got their nodes publicly reachable
216 2022-05-15T21:07:54  <fjahr> bytes1440000: Sorry, I still think it's off-topic because I don't see how the comment is related to the PR. They both broadly touch privacy and Taproot but in very different context afaict. Let's just agree to disagree move on :)
217 2022-05-15T21:10:00  <bytes1440000> luke-jr: hmmm interesting.. coin.dance doesnt have those details about implementations. I can try but you know better how to look at p2p network. I think you already had a website? Your assumption about reachable nodes is possible and maybe something else but still could not see any such thing on other implementations so your efforts are
218 2022-05-15T21:10:01  <bytes1440000> appreciated.
219 2022-05-15T21:49:12  <luke-jr> bytes1440000: https://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html
220 2022-05-15T21:49:20  <luke-jr> bytes1440000: if you scroll down, it has individual versions
221 2022-05-15T21:49:30  <luke-jr> but this is kinda off-topic here, maybe better to discuss in #bitcoin
222 2022-05-15T21:51:55  <bytes1440000> fjahr: taproot, 2of2 multisig and privacy is all about lightning IMO. If we use such rules maybe no mempool policies should be adjusted because of a 2of2 multisig network? Or We have better examples of projects that use NofN multisig after taproot?
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224 2022-05-15T21:52:08  <bytes1440000> luke-jr: thanks
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232 2022-05-15T22:27:33  <fjahr> bytes1440000: DLCs and Atomic Swaps come to mind instantly for just 2of2. But taproot helps with almost any collaborative multisig protocol. what does the mempool have to do with this now? That topic isn't named in the PR or the link once.
233 2022-05-15T22:29:21  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr opened pull request #25140: Translatability fixups (master...ts_20220515) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25140
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235 2022-05-15T22:32:34  <bitcoin-git> [gui] luke-jr opened pull request #599: Translatability fixups (master...ts_20220515) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/599
236 2022-05-15T22:32:50  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #25140: Translatability fixups (master...ts_20220515) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25140
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239 2022-05-15T22:45:08  <bytes1440000> fjahr: DLC and atomic swaps on-chain bitcoin used not even for 1% transactions. Taproot helps with any 2of2 but I had mentioned this in : https://bitcoin-irc.chaincode.com/bitcoin-core-dev/2022-05-15#813045;
240 2022-05-15T22:45:08  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/813045 | HTTP Error 404: Not Found
241 2022-05-15T22:45:57  <bytes1440000> What does that have to do with mempool? Maybe you can read the pull requests that are open in bitcoin core repository related to mempool and discuss lightning
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245 2022-05-15T23:12:30  <bytes1440000> Shared this with adam back and lot of others feel only consensus critical code can be exploited. I believe some developers in core understand this is not true but I am not sure if they will ever talk about it.
246 2022-05-15T23:12:52  <bytes1440000> Bitcoin Core or any bitcoin implementation has lot of things that can be exploited with no soft fork. It can be p2p, mempool wallet, rpc etc. anything
247 2022-05-15T23:13:04  <bytes1440000> This is not FUD but something a user should be aware of.
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249 2022-05-15T23:13:27  <bytes1440000> TL;DR: https://nitter.net/dystopiabreaker/status/1525679289261096961
250 2022-05-15T23:16:04  <luke-jr> bytes1440000: while exploits might be in non-consensus code, I'm not sure purely privacy issues like you seem to be talking about are an exploit
251 2022-05-15T23:16:41  <luke-jr> bytes1440000: but more importantly, do you have a proposal to fix it?
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253 2022-05-15T23:24:37  <bytes1440000> luke-jr: This is different from privacy issue. It was in a CTV chat where adam back said, non-consensus PRs are reviewed by a lot people line by line and will never end up being a wrong thing and merged. This is about SECURITY. Proposal to fix it? Its not possible with core used by 99% nodes. Either we use different implementations with a consensus
254 2022-05-15T23:24:37  <bytes1440000> library or trust maintainers and DNS seeds.
255 2022-05-15T23:32:26  <luke-jr> bytes1440000: so what's the actual security issue? maybe email security@bitcoincore.org rather than IRC if it's exploitable…
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