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 30 2022-06-30T00:49:14  <ariard> can i get #25353 in high-prio plz?
 31 2022-06-30T00:49:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25353 | Add a `-mempoolfullrbf` node setting by ariard · Pull Request #25353 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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 95 2022-06-30T03:48:48  <bitcoin-git> [gui] jarolrod opened pull request #627: qt: apply translator comments to reset options confirmation dialog (master...617-followup) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/627
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110 2022-06-30T04:26:46  <dhruv> Just pushed to #23233, but CI just refused to trigger altogether https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23233/checks. Is there a way to trigger it without force-pushing a new sha?
111 2022-06-30T04:26:48  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23233 | BIP324: Add encrypted p2p transport {de}serializer by dhruv · Pull Request #23233 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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118 2022-06-30T04:47:03  <dhruv> force-pushed to re-trigger. it turns out sometimes cirrus doesn't figure out a new sha was pushed and keeps trying to checkout the old git objects that don't exist on that branch anymore.
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162 2022-06-30T07:03:24  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] S3RK opened pull request #25507: wallet: don't add change fee to target if subtracting fees from output (master...correct_target_with_sffo) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25507
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248 2022-06-30T10:50:39  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #25508: guix: use elfesteem 2eb1e5384ff7a220fd1afacd4a0170acff54fe56 (master...update_elfesteem) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25508
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262 2022-06-30T11:17:23  <laanwj> ariard: added
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299 2022-06-30T12:55:16  <darosior> If you have a confirmed transaction, you `gettransaction` it. You then query `listsinceblock`with the 'blockhash' from the result of the `gettransaction` call. The transaction will not be returned. If you pass the blockhash of the previous block, however, it will. Is it the intended behaviour?
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304 2022-06-30T13:04:49  <laanwj> darosior: it's not clear to me from the RPC help how "since" is to be interpreted
305 2022-06-30T13:05:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #25505: test: passing a negative value to `-peertimeout` should throw an error (master...2022-06-peertimeout-negative) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25505
306 2022-06-30T13:05:17  <darosior> Yes, it looks like this behaviour is tested so it is (hopefully) be intended
307 2022-06-30T13:05:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5bc10b39abbc...bae8a66d42d6
308 2022-06-30T13:05:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 748a10e /dev/fd0: rephrase error for invalid timeout
309 2022-06-30T13:05:30  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bae8a66 MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25506: Rephrase error message for invalid value of `...
310 2022-06-30T13:05:31  <laanwj> it could definitely be documented better
311 2022-06-30T13:05:33  <darosior> I'll open an issue to clarify, as at the very least the documentation is confusing
312 2022-06-30T13:05:35  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25506: Rephrase error message for invalid value of `-peertimeout` (master...peertimeout-error-msg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25506
313 2022-06-30T13:05:39  <laanwj> right
314 2022-06-30T13:06:15  <laanwj> i'd personally expect it to be inclusive of the specified block, too
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319 2022-06-30T13:12:47  <sipa> I think the behavior makes sense, see my comment.
320 2022-06-30T13:13:40  <darosior> Yeah your explanation makes sense.
321 2022-06-30T13:14:03  <sipa> It could certainly be better documented.
322 2022-06-30T13:17:19  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] darosior opened pull request #25510: rpc: explicit the range for listsinceblock's filtering by block hash is exclusive (master...doc_listsinceblock) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25510
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324 2022-06-30T13:19:23  <laanwj> sipa: yes, that makes sense
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327 2022-06-30T13:20:31  <jamesob> Random question: was there ever a rationale for the bitcoin/bitcoin-core github org split? I.e. why isn't everything just under one or the other?
328 2022-06-30T13:21:31  <ariard> laanwj: thanks
329 2022-06-30T13:21:34  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #25511: test: non-positive integer value to `-peertimeout` should throw an error (master...2022-06-peertimeout-positive-integer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25511
330 2022-06-30T13:21:39  <laanwj> jamesob: ideally everything should be under bitcoin-core, that said, the bitcoin/bitcoin repo name is hardcoded in so many places
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332 2022-06-30T13:21:55  <jamesob> laanwj: ah gotcha
333 2022-06-30T13:22:38  <laanwj> well, bips is the thing that can be argued to belong under bitcoin itself
334 2022-06-30T13:22:40  <laanwj> anyhow, old wounds
335 2022-06-30T13:23:32  <jamesob> right
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337 2022-06-30T13:25:19  <laanwj> i guess it becomes relevant again if we ever split up the repo (e.g. in a consensus part and the rest), but that's not even a consideration right now
338 2022-06-30T13:26:19  <jamesob> for sure
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347 2022-06-30T14:05:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ayush933 opened pull request #25512: test: refactor rpc_signrawtransaction.py (master...rpc_signrawtransactionwithkey_no_wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25512
348 2022-06-30T14:11:27  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/bae8a66d42d6...b6cf0f8848ed
349 2022-06-30T14:11:28  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master d22bd54 brunoerg: test: passing a non-positive integer value to `-peertimeout` should throw ...
350 2022-06-30T14:11:28  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b6cf0f8 MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25511: test: non-positive integer value to `-peertim...
351 2022-06-30T14:11:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25511: test: non-positive integer value to `-peertimeout` should throw an error (master...2022-06-peertimeout-positive-integer) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25511
352 2022-06-30T14:12:35  <instagibbs> does github let you "ACK" someone's comment, so it's re-exposed in your gihub review thread thing?
353 2022-06-30T14:12:50  <instagibbs> like "yeah this needs to be fixed" without making an entirely new comment
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364 2022-06-30T14:39:08  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/b6cf0f8848ed...1ee597817fb0
365 2022-06-30T14:39:09  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master f319287 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: assert serialized txouts size of `gen_return_txouts` helper
366 2022-06-30T14:39:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b1ba3ed Sebastian Falbesoner: test: let `gen_return_txouts` create a single large OP_RETURN output
367 2022-06-30T14:39:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 475aae8 Sebastian Falbesoner: test: pass `datacarriersize` option for tests using large outputs (instead...
368 2022-06-30T14:39:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25503: test: pass `datacarriersize` option for tests using large outputs (instead of `acceptnonstdtxn`) (master...202206-test-replace_acceptnonstdxn_with_datacarriersize_option) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25503
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371 2022-06-30T14:44:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/1ee597817fb0...6adae27f8c75
372 2022-06-30T14:44:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa07651 glozow: [rpc] add new submitpackage RPC
373 2022-06-30T14:44:00  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e866f0d glozow: [functional test] submitrawpackage RPC
374 2022-06-30T14:44:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6adae27 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#24836: add RPC (-regtest only) for testing package p...
375 2022-06-30T14:44:20  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24836: add RPC (-regtest only) for testing package policy (master...client-submitpackage) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24836
376 2022-06-30T14:53:18  <kouloumos> Has anyone ever tried to add tracepoints support for macOS? Except of the kind of related reference in #22238 I couldn't find any other tangible mention.
377 2022-06-30T14:53:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22238 | build: improve detection of eBPF support by fanquake · Pull Request #22238 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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383 2022-06-30T15:15:59  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #25513: psbt: Check Taproot tree depth and leaf versions (master...taproot-psbt-check-leaf-ver) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25513
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388 2022-06-30T15:42:10  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6adae27f8c75...5d68d6840d9c
389 2022-06-30T15:42:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master eec23da Ayush Sharma: test: remove wallet dependency from feature_nulldummy.py
390 2022-06-30T15:42:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 50ba669 Ayush Sharma: remove unused functions
391 2022-06-30T15:42:10  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5d68d68 MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25364: test: remove wallet dependency from feature_n...
392 2022-06-30T15:42:15  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25364: test: remove wallet dependency from feature_nulldummy.py (master...nulldummy_no_wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25364
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403 2022-06-30T16:41:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5d68d6840d9c...c892cb7d8d8d
404 2022-06-30T16:41:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bda8ebe furszy: wallet: don't read db every time that a new WalletBatch is created
405 2022-06-30T16:41:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c318211 furszy: walletdb: fix last client version update
406 2022-06-30T16:41:01  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master c892cb7 MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25383: wallet: don't read db every time that a new '...
407 2022-06-30T16:41:06  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25383: wallet: don't read db every time that a new 'WalletBatch' is created (master...2022_wallet_db_read) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25383
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426 2022-06-30T18:01:29  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dergoegge opened pull request #25514: net processing: Move CNode::nServices and CNode::nLocalServices to Peer (master...2022-06-move-services) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25514
427 2022-06-30T18:04:21  <MacroFake> Is there a meeting today?
428 2022-06-30T18:04:44  <fanquake> in ~1hr i think?
429 2022-06-30T18:04:52  <sipa> I think so? 1 hour from now.
430 2022-06-30T18:05:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dergoegge opened pull request #25515: [draft] PeerManager unit tests (master...2022-06-virt-connman) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25515
431 2022-06-30T18:06:19  <MacroFake> ah thx
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438 2022-06-30T19:00:31  <laanwj> #startmeeting
439 2022-06-30T19:00:31  <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 30 19:00:31 2022 UTC.  The chair is laanwj. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
440 2022-06-30T19:00:31  <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
441 2022-06-30T19:00:49  <hebasto> hi
442 2022-06-30T19:00:50  <jarolrod> hi
443 2022-06-30T19:00:50  <sdaftuar> hi
444 2022-06-30T19:00:54  <cfields_> hi
445 2022-06-30T19:00:58  <sipa> hi
446 2022-06-30T19:01:00  <fanquake> hi
447 2022-06-30T19:01:01  <instagibbs> hi
448 2022-06-30T19:01:02  <laanwj> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard b10c BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo
449 2022-06-30T19:01:02  <glozow> hi
450 2022-06-30T19:01:04  <laanwj> moneyball morcos nehan NicolasDorier paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar sipa vasild
451 2022-06-30T19:01:07  <lightlike> hi
452 2022-06-30T19:01:14  <MacroFake> hi
453 2022-06-30T19:01:19  <ariard> hi
454 2022-06-30T19:01:21  <laanwj> welcome to the weekly general bitcoin-core-dev meeting
455 2022-06-30T19:01:36  <kvaciral> hi
456 2022-06-30T19:01:43  <michaelfolkson> hi
457 2022-06-30T19:01:48  <laanwj> there has been one topic proposed in advance: glozow for rbf / mempool / validation maintainer (fanquake)
458 2022-06-30T19:02:01  <laanwj> you can propose topics at any time during the week with #proposedmeetingtopic
459 2022-06-30T19:02:06  <laanwj> any last minute topics?
460 2022-06-30T19:02:45  <achow101> hi
461 2022-06-30T19:02:59  <b10c> hi
462 2022-06-30T19:03:49  <kanzure> hi
463 2022-06-30T19:04:09  *** brunoerg <brunoerg!~brunoerg@187.183.43.40> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
464 2022-06-30T19:04:32  <laanwj> #topic High priority for review
465 2022-06-30T19:04:32  <core-meetingbot> topic: High priority for review
466 2022-06-30T19:05:12  <laanwj> there are 7 blockers, 2 chasing concept ACK in https://github.com/orgs/bitcoin/projects/1
467 2022-06-30T19:05:14  <MacroFake> #24697 for me pls (It makes removing adjusted time a little bit easier, but it is not strictly required)
468 2022-06-30T19:05:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24697 | refactor address relay time by MarcoFalke · Pull Request #24697 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
469 2022-06-30T19:05:26  <laanwj> (the URL moved, as we migrated the project to the new github projects)
470 2022-06-30T19:06:18  <dongcarl> #25487 for me please!
471 2022-06-30T19:06:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25487 | [kernel 3b/n] Make `{Dump,Load}Mempool` `CTxMemPool` methods, decouple from `ArgsManager` by dongcarl · Pull Request #25487 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
472 2022-06-30T19:06:51  <laanwj> MacroFake: added
473 2022-06-30T19:07:01  <MacroFake> Maybe #21702 can be removed for needing rebase?
474 2022-06-30T19:07:03  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/21702 | Implement BIP-119 Validation (CheckTemplateVerify) by JeremyRubin · Pull Request #21702 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
475 2022-06-30T19:07:26  <laanwj> dongcarl: also added
476 2022-06-30T19:07:26  <dongcarl> Ping jeremyrubin
477 2022-06-30T19:07:31  <MacroFake> Same for #22693 ?
478 2022-06-30T19:07:33  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/22693 | RPC/Wallet: Add "use_txids" to output of getaddressinfo by luke-jr · Pull Request #22693 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
479 2022-06-30T19:07:43  <fanquake> Can I have https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25484. Few changes building on top of that
480 2022-06-30T19:08:03  <achow101> #24699 for me
481 2022-06-30T19:08:06  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24699 | wallet: Improve AvailableCoins performance by reducing duplicated operations by achow101 · Pull Request #24699 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
482 2022-06-30T19:08:47  <luke-jr> I can prioritise a rebase of that
483 2022-06-30T19:09:02  <laanwj> achow101: added
484 2022-06-30T19:09:25  <laanwj> MacroFake: depends on how long it has needed rebase imo
485 2022-06-30T19:10:18  <MacroFake> Yeah, one week seems fine, but if something is sitting for several weeks, I am not sure what reviewers can do
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487 2022-06-30T19:10:29  <Murch> hi
488 2022-06-30T19:10:50  <laanwj> agree
489 2022-06-30T19:11:44  <laanwj> looks like it has needed rebase since may 6
490 2022-06-30T19:11:51  <laanwj> so yes removing it for now
491 2022-06-30T19:13:11  <laanwj> okay, anything else to add/remove, or that is in the list and almost ready for merge?
492 2022-06-30T19:15:46  * luke-jr squashes a cricket
493 2022-06-30T19:16:07  <laanwj> (btw, if you have a project board, and want to migrate it to the new github projects beta, let me know, this is possible now)
494 2022-06-30T19:16:18  <laanwj> #topic glozow for rbf / mempool / validation maintainer
495 2022-06-30T19:16:19  <core-meetingbot> topic: glozow for rbf / mempool / validation maintainer
496 2022-06-30T19:16:28  <fanquake> Cool
497 2022-06-30T19:16:38  <laanwj> ack
498 2022-06-30T19:16:39  <fanquake> Per the topic, I'm proposing we make Gloria (https://github.com/glozow) a maintainer; over ~ rbf / mempool / policy
499 2022-06-30T19:16:47  <fanquake> She has been actively working on Bitcoin Core for > 2 years. Predominately in the mempool & validation code.
500 2022-06-30T19:16:57  <fanquake> Her current project is package rbf/relay, and I know she has a number of thoughts in regards to improving the surrounding code.
501 2022-06-30T19:17:08  <fanquake> More recently she has also been reviewing / helping improve in /wallet/, which I'm sure achow appreciates
502 2022-06-30T19:17:14  <fanquake> I think she is a great candidate for being a maintainer
503 2022-06-30T19:17:25  <achow101> ack
504 2022-06-30T19:17:31  <cfields_> +1
505 2022-06-30T19:17:37  <hebasto> ack
506 2022-06-30T19:17:40  <sipa> The obvious question, glozow: are you interested in helping out with maintaining?
507 2022-06-30T19:17:47  <instagibbs> lol
508 2022-06-30T19:17:57  <MacroFake> sipa: sssh
509 2022-06-30T19:17:57  <instagibbs> (ack)
510 2022-06-30T19:17:59  <luke-jr> who said she has a choice? /s
511 2022-06-30T19:17:59  <cfields_> err.. assuming ^^ :)
512 2022-06-30T19:18:16  <glozow> thanks fanquake, I appreciate the recognition. Yes I'd like to help out in any way I can.
513 2022-06-30T19:18:18  <dongcarl> ack if she wants it
514 2022-06-30T19:18:21  <michaelfolkson> Who is currently merging mempool/policy PRs? Marco?
515 2022-06-30T19:18:28  <Murch> ack
516 2022-06-30T19:18:34  <sipa> ack, in that case
517 2022-06-30T19:18:40  <b10c> ack
518 2022-06-30T19:18:53  <MacroFake> sgtm
519 2022-06-30T19:19:08  <laanwj> awesome!
520 2022-06-30T19:19:16  <b10c> nit: brink would then fund 3 maintainers. not that this is a problem, i just want to mention it.
521 2022-06-30T19:19:27  <jeremyrubin> i am mild nack on it -- i think that Gloria is suitable and qualified, but i think that maintainership might hinder more than help her progress
522 2022-06-30T19:19:44  <jeremyrubin> since it seems it would largely be her with merge resposnibility over her own work
523 2022-06-30T19:20:17  <dongcarl> what does glozow think?
524 2022-06-30T19:20:19  <instagibbs> this seems like a larger question(which is valid) on self-merges
525 2022-06-30T19:20:30  <achow101> jeremyrubin: the same was with the wallet for me
526 2022-06-30T19:20:31  <MacroFake> jeremyrubin: Somewhat it is a requirement to have worked extensively on a piece of code before you can maintain it
527 2022-06-30T19:20:33  <cfields_> jeremyrubin: doesn't seem far off from fanquake's role/work to me.
528 2022-06-30T19:20:38  <cfields_> right, and achow101.
529 2022-06-30T19:20:40  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: I don't know that's a problem. Maintainers tend to work in the area they merge in
530 2022-06-30T19:20:41  <achow101> at least it will help with getting other people's work in too
531 2022-06-30T19:21:02  <luke-jr> the process of merging still requires third party review
532 2022-06-30T19:21:12  <sipa> I think this was brought up with achow101's maintainership as well, and I think the counterpoints are similar: it's better than having their own work merged at all, and that is something other maintainers can still do.
533 2022-06-30T19:21:14  <sipa> *not merged at all
534 2022-06-30T19:21:51  <glozow> Spending time in this area of the codebase has led me to understand that we have plenty of non-package-relay limitations to address, and reviewing mempool and policy-related things is often the best use of my time. So I had planned to do more of that anyway. Not that this means dropping package relay, but there are lots of non-package relay things to look after. And if people are not comfortable with me merging my own code, then I won't do
535 2022-06-30T19:21:51  <glozow> that.
536 2022-06-30T19:21:56  <laanwj> luke-jr: sipa: exactly
537 2022-06-30T19:22:26  <ariard> i think it's always okay to say to a maintainer we have found the merge too fast or not matching the historical level of reviews for a critical area of the codebase
538 2022-06-30T19:22:46  <lightlike> ack
539 2022-06-30T19:23:05  <luke-jr> ariard: counterpoint, last time that was ignored and the PR not reverted as it ought to have been
540 2022-06-30T19:23:34  <ariard> luke-jr: as usual, one contributor viewpoint might not express the project consensus
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542 2022-06-30T19:24:15  <luke-jr> it means there is no consensus; and I certainly was not alone
543 2022-06-30T19:24:16  <jeremyrubin> well to be clear this is very different role than maybe fanquake or achow
544 2022-06-30T19:24:29  <jeremyrubin> since this is -- as desrcribed here -- "validation maintainer"
545 2022-06-30T19:24:30  <bytes1440000> b10c: its a good point and maintainers funded by different orgs is always better for a project like bitcoin core
546 2022-06-30T19:24:38  <sipa> luke-jr: ignoring specific cases, i agree that nobody should feel restricted from commenting on too-fast-merges.
547 2022-06-30T19:24:39  <luke-jr> in any case, it's not related to the topic of glozow's role IMO
548 2022-06-30T19:24:41  <ariard> though to express wider thought on the mempool maintership, imo it's one area of the codebase expected to grow in complexity in the coming years with upper layers requirements
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550 2022-06-30T19:25:03  <ariard> like we'll likely have a bunch of other beasts like package relay to land in the coming decade for all the covenants/eltoo stuff
551 2022-06-30T19:25:27  <bytes1440000> i am not sure if bitcoin core needs another person with commit access with already 6 but always felt it needs more reviewers looking at open pull requests
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553 2022-06-30T19:25:33  <jeremyrubin> a wallet maintainer affects mostly those who choose to user the software, it's not clear what the scope is of a validation maintainter to me
554 2022-06-30T19:25:56  <laanwj> mempool maintainer is much clearer
555 2022-06-30T19:26:07  <bytes1440000> ariard: you could also be a mempool maintainer?
556 2022-06-30T19:26:28  <cfields_> bytes1440000: that's not the discussion now.
557 2022-06-30T19:26:34  <MacroFake> I think "validation" is meant in the context of mempool validation? (ATMP is in validation.cpp)
558 2022-06-30T19:26:38  <laanwj> i'm also not really sure what 'validation maintainer' would be
559 2022-06-30T19:26:41  <jeremyrubin> maybe we could do a better job of drafting an actual "Job Description" for what glozow is being appiinted as?
560 2022-06-30T19:26:55  <ariard> bytes1440000: no, i don't intend to be maintainer, i don't have the profile for and when it has been proposed to me for LDK, i did refuse
561 2022-06-30T19:26:57  <sipa> ariard: I'm not sure that's all that related to specific consensus changes, but sure... i do expect significant complexity and the need for people keeping a good overview over it, regarding tx relay
562 2022-06-30T19:26:59  <fanquake> I did clarify to mempool / rbf / policy, in the sentences above
563 2022-06-30T19:27:01  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: as with all maintainers, it's supposed to be janitorial
564 2022-06-30T19:27:14  <luke-jr> running a script when there's review and consensus on a PR
565 2022-06-30T19:27:20  <laanwj> fanquake: makes sense to me said like that
566 2022-06-30T19:27:20  <bytes1440000> ariard: okay
567 2022-06-30T19:27:24  <fanquake> i may have said validation in the proposed topic, but not specifically in this discussion
568 2022-06-30T19:27:32  <fanquake> i did say she had worked on the code in validation
569 2022-06-30T19:27:33  <sipa> Yeah, I prefer the role to be "mempool / rbf / policy" rather than validation.
570 2022-06-30T19:27:54  <luke-jr> I'd drop "rbf" - seems like too minor a detail :p
571 2022-06-30T19:28:15  <achow101> mempool/policy, components of which live in validation.cpp.. our naming sucks
572 2022-06-30T19:28:33  <sipa> If we're bikeshedding, "mempool and transaction relay policy" ?
573 2022-06-30T19:28:38  <jeremyrubin> i think it would make sense to draft a Job Description of what the appointment is for and scoping, and have people ack that when it exists.
574 2022-06-30T19:29:00  <cfields_> jeremyrubin: that would've made sense for every prior nomination as well.
575 2022-06-30T19:29:04  <jeremyrubin> yeah
576 2022-06-30T19:29:04  <laanwj> the name can be more abstract it doesn't have to be precise a specfic cpp or so, we've never divided things up like that
577 2022-06-30T19:29:05  <jeremyrubin> it would have
578 2022-06-30T19:29:09  <ariard> sipa: sure, my thought was the mempool is a good candidate to get a maintainer in the coming years, if the complexity keeps increasing
579 2022-06-30T19:29:10  <jeremyrubin> we probably should have done that
580 2022-06-30T19:29:23  <Murch> mempool+policy sgtm
581 2022-06-30T19:29:25  <jeremyrubin> as noted, i am not opposed to glozow having some set of responsibilities, it just doesn't seem like we're holding ourselves to a good standard to not do this
582 2022-06-30T19:29:37  <glozow> Mempool / Policy is a scope I am fine with and plan to review anyway. Maybe we can one day more them out of validation.cpp if that's important to people. It seems the core question is whether or not people think I am knowledgeable enough to gauge whether a PR has enough review to be merged, since that's what a maintainer does.
583 2022-06-30T19:29:50  <michaelfolkson> ack
584 2022-06-30T19:29:57  <laanwj> glozow: i'm sure you are!
585 2022-06-30T19:30:03  <luke-jr> sipa: policy affects more than relay in practice; and often relay isn't even given the priority
586 2022-06-30T19:30:24  <ariard> jeremyrubin: yes, i agree we might do a Job Description to get the scoping right
587 2022-06-30T19:30:33  * dongcarl is fully in support of inverting the validation -> mempool dependency
588 2022-06-30T19:30:46  <BlueMatt[m]> dongcarl: lol good luck
589 2022-06-30T19:30:46  <cfields_> :)
590 2022-06-30T19:30:50  <laanwj> we don't have that kind of precise scoping for maintainers, i don't think that's necessary
591 2022-06-30T19:31:12  <luke-jr> glozow: IIRC you seemed confused about the relation between miners and relay policy; but I may be misremembering, and/or maybe cleared that up
592 2022-06-30T19:31:13  <laanwj> we all have an idea what mempool+transaction relay is
593 2022-06-30T19:31:15  <sipa> maintainers also learn, and responsibilities evolve
594 2022-06-30T19:31:18  <achow101> tbh maintainers have merged things outside of their explicit scopes, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing
595 2022-06-30T19:31:32  <dongcarl> I do like an "inclusionary" list of responsibilities, not an "exclusionary" one
596 2022-06-30T19:31:42  <achow101> so long as every PR has been reviewed by multiple people and there is consensus for merging, it doesn't particularly matter who is merging
597 2022-06-30T19:31:44  <laanwj> achow101: right, as long as there is agreement that's fine
598 2022-06-30T19:31:45  <jeremyrubin> ok so then we aren't discussing adding gloria as a scoped maintainer, it's as a general maintainer?
599 2022-06-30T19:31:56  <jeremyrubin> that seems like a different discussion, which is also OK to have
600 2022-06-30T19:31:57  <MacroFake> Agree with achow101 and laanwj
601 2022-06-30T19:32:00  <luke-jr> x.x
602 2022-06-30T19:32:04  <achow101> jeremyrubin: all maintainers are basically general maintainers
603 2022-06-30T19:32:13  <achow101> but have a focus
604 2022-06-30T19:32:17  <laanwj> achow101: yes, that
605 2022-06-30T19:32:32  <ariard> okay that might be the discussion, should we evolve towards scoped maintainance
606 2022-06-30T19:32:45  <laanwj> i'm not sure
607 2022-06-30T19:33:00  <luke-jr> I don't see that would improve things
608 2022-06-30T19:33:05  <Murch> It's not like the parts of the codebases are that isolated
609 2022-06-30T19:33:09  <sipa> i hope we don't need to have discussions about whether or not something was someone's purview to merge
610 2022-06-30T19:33:18  <laanwj> sipa: +1
611 2022-06-30T19:33:23  <sipa> the role is janitorial, as already pointed out
612 2022-06-30T19:33:29  <laanwj> i don't think that has ever happened anyway, and probably shouldn't
613 2022-06-30T19:33:47  <jeremyrubin> i think i would just like clarity -- you see how it is not good that gloria was proposed to be a scoped maintainer, everyone ACK'd that, and now it's backtracking into well it's always general purpose overall project maintenance?
614 2022-06-30T19:33:56  <sipa> and i hope that the people given maintainer responsibilities are expected to judge their own expertise in making that decision
615 2022-06-30T19:33:57  <jeremyrubin> Adding a maintainer is a serious, important thing
616 2022-06-30T19:34:16  <bytes1440000> +1
617 2022-06-30T19:34:17  <jeremyrubin> so I think as a project we should communicate more clearly about what exactly is being done and expected
618 2022-06-30T19:34:28  <jeremyrubin> and if people are ACK voting, they should know what for
619 2022-06-30T19:34:34  <MacroFake> jeremyrubin: It would be suspicious if glozow went out and merged a ton of build system changes that are reviewed, but not by her
620 2022-06-30T19:34:37  <laanwj> i don't think that's necessary, but feel free to write something up if you want
621 2022-06-30T19:34:49  <cfields_> jeremyrubin: as has adding every past maintainer. I think if you're going to call for procedural changes, you need to make it clear why this one's different.
622 2022-06-30T19:34:51  <MacroFake> However, if she decides to work on the build system in 2 years, that should be reasonable
623 2022-06-30T19:35:06  <jeremyrubin> cfields_ i have been asking for maintainers to give more clarity for a while
624 2022-06-30T19:35:14  <jeremyrubin> so i am not personally departing from any prior stance
625 2022-06-30T19:35:36  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: people want to spend time on code, not necessarily process
626 2022-06-30T19:35:39  <luke-jr> at least myself
627 2022-06-30T19:35:44  <laanwj> luke-jr: +100
628 2022-06-30T19:36:11  <dongcarl> I'm ACKing for glozow to be focused on mempool / policy but have the ability to act in a general maintainer way as long as it's not repeatedly unilaterally stepping on other maintainers' toes
629 2022-06-30T19:36:25  <achow101> ^ that
630 2022-06-30T19:36:38  <sipa> dongcarl: +1
631 2022-06-30T19:37:26  <laanwj> sure, i mean given that she even wants that
632 2022-06-30T19:37:29  <glozow> Thank you dongcarl. I agree to "be focused on mempool / policy but have the ability to act in a general maintainer way as long as it's not repeatedly unilaterally stepping on other maintainers' toes."
633 2022-06-30T19:37:47  <ariard> from my viewpoint, the worthiness of a scoped maintainership is when you have a security issue to talk about you know at least whom should be the default interlocutor (even if I know we have a catch-all mailist endpoint)
634 2022-06-30T19:38:10  <laanwj> that also works for semi-scoped
635 2022-06-30T19:38:18  <Murch> Well, I'd have rephrased the second half of that to, and "expect to judge their own expertise in making merge decisions" as mentioned by Pieter above
636 2022-06-30T19:39:01  *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@user/bomb-on> has quit IRC (Quit: aллилѹіа!)
637 2022-06-30T19:39:03  <jeremyrubin> i want to spend time on a beach with a pina colada -- however, process work is a part of the development of the "bitcoin core organization", so you can't just stick your head in the sand and ignore it, especially when it comes to doling out commit access
638 2022-06-30T19:39:08  <laanwj> if there's some urgent issue you talk to the person who has the focus on a certain area
639 2022-06-30T19:39:40  <laanwj> no, i don't think adding more bureaucracy and formality makes things better
640 2022-06-30T19:40:30  <luke-jr> there is no bitcoin core organization
641 2022-06-30T19:40:41  <ariard> yeah, the "who has the focus on a certain area" might not always be clear, and it's more then whom you should nudge to get covert a fix done
642 2022-06-30T19:41:22  <MacroFake> As a general rule, if you have an idea to improve the process, suggestions are welcome.
643 2022-06-30T19:41:22  <sipa> As the project grows, some form of process/organization is expected to come into play. Until a few years ago, maintainers had barely any focus, let alone a well-defined focus. I think it suffices to talk about maintainers with a focus: people who have maintainer rights, but are expected to mostly focus on one aspect.
644 2022-06-30T19:41:44  <sipa> Let's not rush adding more formality to this, it's already burdensome enough.
645 2022-06-30T19:41:48  <laanwj> yes
646 2022-06-30T19:42:11  <dongcarl> That sounds right to me!
647 2022-06-30T19:42:22  <jeremyrubin> how burdensome is it to write a simple Job Description describing what "mempool / policy / validation / RBF" is so that we know what the focus actually is of the proposed new maintainer?
648 2022-06-30T19:42:40  <michaelfolkson> I think being willing and available to discuss a controversial merge decision on IRC is important. Beyond that every PR has its own subtleties
649 2022-06-30T19:42:56  <dongcarl> jeremyrubin: EPARSE
650 2022-06-30T19:43:07  <laanwj> i think you're dragging things out now jeremyrubin
651 2022-06-30T19:43:28  <laanwj> any other topics?
652 2022-06-30T19:43:39  <ariard> anyway, i think a mempool maintainer is a good thing and I think glozow is a valuable candidate, however maybe we could take more time to think about the effective scope and if we have other candidates interested (again: i'm not interested)
653 2022-06-30T19:44:31  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: so write it yourself and propose it for merging to project docs in a PR
654 2022-06-30T19:44:39  <dongcarl> I have a small implementation detail thing that's probs not important enough for the meeting but would like to chat a bit afterwards
655 2022-06-30T19:44:48  <jeremyrubin> perhaps I am dragging it out -- i would fire back that you're avoiding important discourse on accountability of maintainers, something that you shouldn't shy away from in general. All maintainers should be able to produce 5 sentences on what areas they are focused on.
656 2022-06-30T19:45:03  <cfields_> jeremyrubin: not 6?
657 2022-06-30T19:45:10  <jeremyrubin> gotta start somewhere
658 2022-06-30T19:45:27  <michaelfolkson> Regardless the work Gloria has done on mempool, policy, package relay, PR review club is great. This discussion isn't Gloria related, just process questions
659 2022-06-30T19:45:33  *** bomb-on <bomb-on!~bomb-on@user/bomb-on> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
660 2022-06-30T19:45:36  <laanwj> sigh
661 2022-06-30T19:45:53  <bytes1440000> ariard: +1 will be interesting to see if others are also interested to be a maintainer for different things
662 2022-06-30T19:45:56  <dongcarl> I think "mempool / policy" is quite clear
663 2022-06-30T19:46:08  <cfields_> bytes1440000: stop.
664 2022-06-30T19:46:16  <achow101> jeremyrubin: how specific do you want this description to be? I find "mempool / rbf / policy" to be clear in scope
665 2022-06-30T19:46:18  <jeremyrubin> generally the more the better -- achow101 has done a good  job detailing his course of action / wallet priorities IMO
666 2022-06-30T19:46:45  <achow101> per file? per line? The codebase is complex enough that a PR in one area still has effects on code in other places that are "out of scope"
667 2022-06-30T19:47:08  * luke-jr echos laanwj's sigh
668 2022-06-30T19:47:10  <instagibbs> If I'm made policy maintainer, I'll make sure the snack bar is refilled on consistent intervals
669 2022-06-30T19:47:16  <bytes1440000> cfields_ : are people not allowed to respond in this channel?
670 2022-06-30T19:47:18  <luke-jr> lol
671 2022-06-30T19:47:19  <jeremyrubin> i don
672 2022-06-30T19:47:47  <jeremyrubin> i don't find that to be sufficiently descriptive personally
673 2022-06-30T19:48:02  * luke-jr imagines instagibbs flying around the world to each dev's office to refill snacks
674 2022-06-30T19:48:25  <laanwj> hehe
675 2022-06-30T19:49:03  <jeremyrubin> glozow is it a problem to write up your intended focus areas and prioritizations for the project?
676 2022-06-30T19:49:33  <laanwj> if she wants to write something up that's fine ofc
677 2022-06-30T19:49:33  <glozow> jeremyrubin: I'm sure people have varying ideas of what amount of prioritizing or "roadmapping" would be appropriate, but I did prepare a list of things I consider important and would work on https://gist.github.com/glozow/5b8cfa27945371921dfe4d99b17e0424
678 2022-06-30T19:49:43  <sipa> FWIW, I think it's a good idea in general for everyone (not just maintainers) to talk about their priorities and current focus.
679 2022-06-30T19:49:46  <MacroFake> jeremyrubin: I'd say a personal roadmap is different from the tasks of a maintainer
680 2022-06-30T19:49:47  <jeremyrubin> for example, achow101 has made docs like this https://achow101.com/2020/10/0.21-wallets
681 2022-06-30T19:50:12  <jeremyrubin> MacroFake: i think that's a theoretical distinction
682 2022-06-30T19:50:26  <jeremyrubin> practically, maintainers work on what they are interested in.
683 2022-06-30T19:50:36  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: achow101 is great at community/social publication of his work efforts; but that doesn't mean it needs to become a standard everyone has to abide by
684 2022-06-30T19:50:55  <jeremyrubin> everyone doesn't get to be a maintainer either
685 2022-06-30T19:50:56  <laanwj> it isn't a theoretical distinction only, as maintainer you're not supposed to only merge what you're working on yourself
686 2022-06-30T19:51:05  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: it's a responsibility, not a privilege
687 2022-06-30T19:51:07  <instagibbs> I guess the question is what is the writeup for, who is the audience
688 2022-06-30T19:51:10  <ariard> glozow: I think that's a good start, maybe open a GH issue, I would be interested to feed thoughts there and roll the ball forward on mempool maintenance
689 2022-06-30T19:51:30  <sipa> The role of maintainers, jointly, is merging PRs that are ready. The question of focus is mostly about determining who among them is best placed to judge a particular PR's status.
690 2022-06-30T19:51:42  <laanwj> sipa: right!
691 2022-06-30T19:52:33  <fanquake> ariard: I think issues for specific topics would be fine. Although not a single catch-all for discussion of the entire contents of that gist
692 2022-06-30T19:53:02  <jarolrod> i dont think glozow has to do all of these write-ups, we know what she works on and the idea of what she will be maintaining is fairly clear
693 2022-06-30T19:53:05  <ariard> I would say we're missing few folks who has spent time on the mempool recently at that meeting: darosior, realtbast, jamesob and maybe few others L2 devs, they might have thoughts on mempool maintenance
694 2022-06-30T19:53:26  <laanwj> ariard: agree, we don't take final descisions in meetings anyway
695 2022-06-30T19:53:30  <ariard> fanquake: yeah anything to have more visibility on what are people interested with and allocate review time would be great
696 2022-06-30T19:53:41  <luke-jr> ^
697 2022-06-30T19:53:45  <jeremyrubin> glozow ariard +1 -- it's a good start
698 2022-06-30T19:54:11  <jeremyrubin> laanwj: ah, what is the process then for decision on maintainership then?
699 2022-06-30T19:54:17  <jeremyrubin> I thought it was being decided here
700 2022-06-30T19:54:20  <laanwj> jeremyrubin: i'm done arguing process with you
701 2022-06-30T19:54:21  <achow101> ariard: yes, we let people see the pr to add the merge key for a few days / weeks before actually merging it and granting rights
702 2022-06-30T19:54:35  <luke-jr> jeremyrubin: btw, just to be clear, do you have any reservations with glozow merging PRs with the same expectations for maintainers in general?
703 2022-06-30T19:54:40  <jeremyrubin> well you just said "ariard: agree, we don't take final descisions in meetings anyway"
704 2022-06-30T19:55:03  <achow101> ack/nack on the merge key pr is the "final decision"
705 2022-06-30T19:55:05  <fanquake> because nothing is actually done until a pr has been open, reviewed, merged
706 2022-06-30T19:55:06  <laanwj> but it's prbably good to let some time pass so people can bring up potential issues they have with glozow being maintainer, or proposed alternatives
707 2022-06-30T19:55:20  <jarolrod> ^ laanwj agree
708 2022-06-30T19:55:32  <luke-jr> there can always be multiple maintainers - I don't know that alternatives are an objection
709 2022-06-30T19:55:47  <laanwj> no, that's true
710 2022-06-30T19:55:53  <jeremyrubin> laanwj: if you can't civilly discuss what process in your decision making you're not suited to be a maintainer... accountability is part of the job.
711 2022-06-30T19:56:13  <laanwj> jeremyrubin: not everything is about your opinions
712 2022-06-30T19:56:20  <jeremyrubin> i never said it is
713 2022-06-30T19:56:32  <jeremyrubin> but you're trying to quash a relevant discussion for what reason?
714 2022-06-30T19:56:33  <laanwj> jeremyrubin: you keep stating your preferences as some kind of facts that is very annoying to me
715 2022-06-30T19:57:03  <instagibbs> I'm just going to venture that continuing this isnt helping
716 2022-06-30T19:57:10  <michaelfolkson> +1
717 2022-06-30T19:57:11  *** belcher <belcher!~belcher@user/belcher> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
718 2022-06-30T19:57:17  <jeremyrubin> i'm sorry to have annoyed you?
719 2022-06-30T19:57:21  <ariard> jeremyrubin: i think accountability of maintainers is an interesting topic, however i think it's better to talk about it in a chill venues like coredev or on the mailing list, there is a lot of context IRC might not be the best medium
720 2022-06-30T19:57:41  <achow101> jeremyrubin: you've been around long enough to see multiple people receive (and renounce) maintainership, I'm surprised that you are not already aware of the process.
721 2022-06-30T19:57:45  <glozow> I care about the health of mempool/policy and Bitcoin Core, and I take it very seriously so I'm happy to be held to a high standard. All of the work we do is  entirely in public, so you are always free to audit me, tell me I've done something wrong, or request I prioritize other things. If you want to test my knowledge or preparedness, please let me know what the standard is beforehand and apply it equally to everyone in the same role.
722 2022-06-30T19:58:09  <ariard> achow101: sgtm, to have a PR open for a while and see if we have any objections, I think it's worhty to have a discussion there or elsewhere on the scope
723 2022-06-30T19:58:11  <jeremyrubin> glozow: +1
724 2022-06-30T19:59:34  <jeremyrubin> re luke-jr: I'd probably want to have a 1-1 convo with gloria about her views on general maintainership before i'd personally endorse, but I don't have a nack presently
725 2022-06-30T20:00:19  <cfields_> in that case i think we can continue without jeremyrubin's endorsement.
726 2022-06-30T20:00:29  <laanwj> time is up, closing the meeting
727 2022-06-30T20:00:33  <laanwj> #endmeeting
728 2022-06-30T20:00:33  <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
729 2022-06-30T20:00:33  <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun 30 20:00:33 2022 UTC.
730 2022-06-30T20:00:33  <core-meetingbot> Minutes:        https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-06-30-19.00.moin.txt
731 2022-06-30T20:02:00  <michaelfolkson> Demanding a 1-1 conversation before "endorsing" is absurd, gosh. Anyway did dongcarl have a mini project update?
732 2022-06-30T20:02:13  <dongcarl> Not a mini project update
733 2022-06-30T20:02:27  <MacroFake> 3a/n was merged :party:
734 2022-06-30T20:02:32  <jeremyrubin> i don't think that's at all unreasonable
735 2022-06-30T20:02:39  <jeremyrubin> i also work on this part of the code
736 2022-06-30T20:03:00  <jeremyrubin> why would it be weird to want to get a better sense of how gloria intends philisophically to maintain it?
737 2022-06-30T20:03:38  <cfields_> jeremyrubin: because there's zero precedent for that and you need to say whatever it is that you really mean or stop derailing.
738 2022-06-30T20:03:40  <ariard> jeremyrubin: while you wouldn't start a ML post and invite politely glozow to express her thoughts ?
739 2022-06-30T20:03:51  <dongcarl> MacroFake: 3a/n was merged thanks to all the reviewers who got through the many changes. Thanks!
740 2022-06-30T20:04:00  <instagibbs> \o/
741 2022-06-30T20:04:04  <jeremyrubin> well this is the first i'm hearing of a nomination for mempool maintainer
742 2022-06-30T20:04:19  <jeremyrubin> i think it'd be great to have a ML post or something?
743 2022-06-30T20:04:31  <dongcarl> I think 3a sets a good example for all the following Argsman decoupling PRs
744 2022-06-30T20:04:31  <jeremyrubin> cfields_: ...
745 2022-06-30T20:04:48  <MacroFake> dongcarl: Apologies for my last minute nit-attack, feel free to ignore them when the pr is in a late stage
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747 2022-06-30T20:05:02  <jeremyrubin> there's no hidden agenda or anything here and I don't think it is derailing to ask basic questions like this
748 2022-06-30T20:05:06  <dongcarl> As for my question... I wanted to ask about the split of -maxsigachesize between InitSignatureCache and InitScriptExecutionCache
749 2022-06-30T20:05:26  <dongcarl> Is that intended to stay longer term or should I deal with it as I do my decoupling?
750 2022-06-30T20:05:45  <sipa> the fact that 50% goes to the sigcache and 50% to the script exec cache?
751 2022-06-30T20:05:53  <sipa> or is this about code orgnanization
752 2022-06-30T20:06:01  <jeremyrubin> glozow is perfectly eloquent and capable of justifying and explaining herself, and I don't think a pile on which amounts to "we don't need to answer questions" is doing her any favors
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754 2022-06-30T20:06:19  <dongcarl> sipa: Yup! Wondering if we intend to make 2 separate flags for them, or if splitting 50/50 is good for now
755 2022-06-30T20:06:50  <dongcarl> Also okay if no one has strong opinions haha
756 2022-06-30T20:07:00  <sipa> dongcarl: My guideline for "should something be configurable" is: can you clearly express the conditions under which someone should use it.
757 2022-06-30T20:07:18  <sipa> If you can't do that, how do you expect the user to know better.
758 2022-06-30T20:07:22  <laanwj> dongcarl: i don't have a strong opinion on it, but adding too many options is overwhelming
759 2022-06-30T20:07:32  <dongcarl> Okay! I will keep the existing then :-)
760 2022-06-30T20:07:39  <laanwj> sipa: right
761 2022-06-30T20:07:42  <dongcarl> yeah one cache doesn't make sense without the other
762 2022-06-30T20:07:58  <laanwj> like "does anyone want to fine-tune this manually in the first place? why?"
763 2022-06-30T20:08:08  <sipa> I'm not sure I can even express when someone should change the size of the cache at all, except in very low-memory situations perhaps.
764 2022-06-30T20:08:49  <sipa> dongcarl: Oh they have very different purposes, one of them without the other is certainly better than nothing. But both is even better.
765 2022-06-30T20:09:18  <bytes1440000> jeremyrubin: There is nothing unreasonable with your questions or thoughts about the process. Commit access being given is a big thing and anyone reading the chat could understand some people don't like questions or different opinions or freedom to participate in this discussion and share thoughts.
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768 2022-06-30T20:10:51  <Murch> It's a janitorial duty where people assess what's ready to merge and merge it
769 2022-06-30T20:13:42  <michaelfolkson> The work over 2+ years speaks for itself. Especially if you've worked on this part of the codebase with that person during that time. What can be said in a 1-1 conversation that could change your mind?
770 2022-06-30T20:14:29  <michaelfolkson> "If you endorse me I'll merge all your PRs"? It is just absurd. Anyway...
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772 2022-06-30T20:16:21  <jeremyrubin> my comment was w.r.t. luke-jr's comment about *general maintainership*
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779 2022-06-30T20:30:08  <dongcarl> BTW, I want to reiterate my thanks to all the reviewers for libbitcoinkernel. I can't do it without you guys. If there are things I can improve on in responding to review, feel free to let me know either here or direct message me!
780 2022-06-30T20:31:58  <ariard> can we have a "libbitcoinkernel" mug plz :) ?
781 2022-06-30T20:32:48  <dongcarl> ariard: Lmao nice idea! I'll see what I can do :-)
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784 2022-06-30T20:35:36  <jeremyrubin> fwiw for anyone interested, C/F a meeting in Feb-22 https://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/2022-02-24.log with laanwj pointing out that glozow as mempool maintainer would be a bad idea, given it's her prime area of work
785 2022-06-30T20:35:37  <jeremyrubin> 11:37 < laanwj> so like, the mempool is notoriously difficult to get people to review for, so, we make glozow mempool maintainer
786 2022-06-30T20:35:37  <jeremyrubin> 11:38 < jeremyrubin> laanwj: glozow is currently one of the main people writing new mempool code, so her being a maintainer probably doesn't help much
787 2022-06-30T20:35:37  <jeremyrubin> 11:38 < laanwj> jeremyrubin: that was exactly my point
788 2022-06-30T20:36:11  <laanwj> i changed my mind
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790 2022-06-30T20:36:47  <jeremyrubin> but do you see how given this was our prior conversation on the matter, it's not odd that i reiterate the question to see what's changed?
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792 2022-06-30T20:37:20  <laanwj> asking questions is fine
793 2022-06-30T20:37:28  <cfields_> that is a reasonable thing to bring up, yes.
794 2022-06-30T20:38:01  <laanwj> making random demands from people is not
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796 2022-06-30T20:39:08  <jeremyrubin> a random demand would be one unrelated to the work, e/g. "draw an owl"
797 2022-06-30T20:39:26  <jeremyrubin> if it's related to the work it's not really random...
798 2022-06-30T20:40:56  <jeremyrubin> anyways i'd be curious to know in particular what made you change your mind about the suitability of glozow as mempool maintainer (e.g., something about the project, about gloria, about the role of maint, etc)
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800 2022-06-30T20:41:13  <cfields_> jeremyrubin: trying to defuse a bit... please step back and consider that it looks like you're moving the goalposts and you're being met with pushback there because it's generally not in anyone's best interests to engage with such demands.
801 2022-06-30T20:42:06  <jeremyrubin> which goalpost moved?
802 2022-06-30T20:42:57  <jeremyrubin> and also what is the random demand in particular that i'd made?
803 2022-06-30T20:43:05  <cfields_> jeremyrubin: demands for a formal job description and interview as a requirement for your approval.
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806 2022-06-30T20:45:20  <laanwj> jeremyrubin: glozow being maintainer doesn't prevent other maintainers from merging her PRs, just like it is done now, it does allow her to merge other people's mempool related PRs so reducing our burden in that regard
807 2022-06-30T20:48:02  <laanwj> if she was the only person working on the mempool then yeah, it would make very little difference
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809 2022-06-30T20:48:59  <laanwj> but whether she's officially maintainer or not she's definitely one of the most qualified persons to review mempool PRs at this point
810 2022-06-30T20:49:18  <jeremyrubin> no doubt!
811 2022-06-30T20:49:58  <dongcarl> Weird question: is there a reason why we use angled brackets for includes? When I work with the clang suite it seems to prefer double quotes instead. Just curious.
812 2022-06-30T20:50:33  <laanwj> dongcarl: yes, it forces all include paths to be relative to the project root
813 2022-06-30T20:50:37  <sipa> dongcarl: we switched to that at some point, you can probably find a rationale in the PR.
814 2022-06-30T20:50:39  <laanwj> instead of current directory
815 2022-06-30T20:50:40  <cfields_> dongcarl: we converted them all a while back. There's a PR that should be easy enough to find with a few git blame's.
816 2022-06-30T20:50:46  <sipa> Ah yes, what laanwj says.
817 2022-06-30T20:50:55  <laanwj> there were some issues with same-name include files
818 2022-06-30T20:51:17  <dongcarl> Ah I see!
819 2022-06-30T20:51:20  <dongcarl> thanks
820 2022-06-30T20:51:24  <laanwj> this rules out potential ambiguity (except with system headers, but...)
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