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202022-08-12T01:07:24 <ariard> laanwj: many thanks for the ~10y of project maintenance and the standard set in terms of dedication and commitment in that space, I wish you the really best for your personal projects and I hope you'll keep contributing to the repo
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772022-08-12T05:45:24 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] w0xlt opened pull request #25827: descriptor: check if `rawtr` has only one key. (master...expr_rawtr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25827
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862022-08-12T06:34:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5d294bccbae5...27724c23f72b
872022-08-12T06:34:05 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9376a6d Aurèle Oulès: refactor: make active_chain_tip a reference
882022-08-12T06:34:06 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 27724c2 MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25677: refactor: make active_chain_tip a reference
892022-08-12T06:34:09 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25677: refactor: make active_chain_tip a reference (master...2022-07-make-active-chain-ref) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25677
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1282022-08-12T08:54:13 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/27724c23f72b...89b219412495
1292022-08-12T08:54:13 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master daabd41 Vasil Dimov: net: simplify GetLocalAddress()
1302022-08-12T08:54:13 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 89b2194 MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25814: net: simplify GetLocalAddress()
1312022-08-12T08:54:17 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25814: net: simplify GetLocalAddress() (master...simplify_GetLocalAddress) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25814
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1352022-08-12T09:34:44 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #25828: [23.x] GUI backports (23.x...220812-23.x-gui) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25828
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1522022-08-12T10:22:45 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #25829: build: include share/rpcauth in release tarball (master...fixup_19081) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25829
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1612022-08-12T11:01:38 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/89b219412495...bf3f05f41d27
1622022-08-12T11:01:39 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4786959 Ben Woosley: bench: Add a benchmark for descriptor expansion
1632022-08-12T11:01:39 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master bf3f05f MacroFake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#25785: bench: Add a benchmark for descriptor expansi...
1642022-08-12T11:01:42 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #25785: bench: Add a benchmark for descriptor expansion (master...2208-bench-desc-ð) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25785
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1782022-08-12T12:01:33 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] aureleoules opened pull request #25830: refactor: Replace m_params with chainman.GetParams() (master...2022-08-replace-m_params) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25830
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1832022-08-12T12:19:48 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] aureleoules opened pull request #25831: refactor: Remove trailing semicolon from LOCK2 macro (master...2022-08-macro-trailing-semicolon) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25831
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2112022-08-12T13:13:47 <bytes1440000> I see a need for "janitorial maintainer" who understands the importance of privacy in core and privacy of contributors. Since #25560 is still open and intent of reviewers doesn't look they want to improve anything in the process, there is no "call for maintainers" thing.
2122022-08-12T13:13:50 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25560 | [WIP] Add a MAINTAINERS.md file and desribe the role of maintainer more directly by JeremyRubin · Pull Request #25560 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2132022-08-12T13:14:02 <bytes1440000> I would prefer someone who has already contributed to bitcoin privacy and privacy in general, not living in first world countries and not funded by brink.
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2152022-08-12T13:16:21 <laanwj> ariard: thank you!
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2242022-08-12T14:26:34 <jnewbery> laanwj: Thank you for all of your hard work. Enjoy your retirement :)
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2312022-08-12T15:20:52 <lightlike> +1, thank you laanwj!
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2492022-08-12T16:00:23 <vasild> #proposedmeetingtopic vasild for a new maintainer with a focus on P2P/networking
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2512022-08-12T16:01:45 <vasild> I volunteer, if there is a perceived need for that.
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2652022-08-12T17:18:25 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] 0xB10C opened pull request #25832: tracing: network connection tracepoints (master...2022-05-connection-tracepoints) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25832
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2672022-08-12T17:22:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] satsie opened pull request #25833: doc: minor updates to guix README (master...update-guix-readme) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/25833
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2862022-08-12T17:57:06 <laanwj> jnewbery: lightlike: thank you!!! hehe, retirement
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2922022-08-12T18:12:58 <bytes1440000> vasild: thanks for volunteering and i think you are the best candidate for p2p/privacy. I wish we had one for mempool/privacy and wallet/privacy as well.
2932022-08-12T18:13:04 *** andrewtoth_ <andrewtoth_!~andrewtot@gateway/tor-sasl/andrewtoth> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
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2952022-08-12T18:13:19 <bytes1440000> I had one question after I looked at #25355 and some conversation with u/alreadybrunt on i2p subreddit. Java router and I am assuming C++ router as well has some limits.
2962022-08-12T18:13:21 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25355 | I2P: add support for transient addresses for outbound connections by vasild · Pull Request #25355 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2972022-08-12T18:13:53 <bytes1440000> What if an attacker tries to establish outbound connections with your node from different i2p addresses out of max sessions. Didn't get time to test it.
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3062022-08-12T18:29:39 <vasild> bytes1440000: an attacker can easily do that even without #25355
3072022-08-12T18:29:41 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25355 | I2P: add support for transient addresses for outbound connections by vasild · Pull Request #25355 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3082022-08-12T18:30:09 <vasild> with tor or i2p
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3102022-08-12T18:30:52 <vasild> I mean - open too many connections to a "victim" which cannot figure out that the many connections originate from one place
3112022-08-12T18:33:09 * vasild zZzZ
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3182022-08-12T19:01:21 <achow101> #startmeeting
3192022-08-12T19:01:22 <core-meetingbot> Meeting started Fri Aug 12 19:01:21 2022 UTC. The chair is achow101. Information about MeetBot at https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings.
3202022-08-12T19:01:22 <core-meetingbot> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
3212022-08-12T19:01:32 <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Wallet Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard BlueMatt cfields Chris_Stewart_5 darosior digi_james dongcarl elichai2 emilengler fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow gmaxwell gwillen hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jb55 jeremyrubin jl2012 jnewbery jonasschnelli jonatack josibake jtimon kallewoof kanzure kvaciral laanwj larryruane lightlike luke-jr maaku marcofalke meshcollider michagogo moneyball morcos Murch nehan NicolasDorier
3222022-08-12T19:01:32 <achow101> paveljanik petertodd phantomcircuit promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK sipa vasild
3232022-08-12T19:02:02 <furszy> hi
3242022-08-12T19:02:13 <achow101> There are no pre-proposed wallet meeting topics. Does anyone have any last minute topics to discuss?
3252022-08-12T19:03:44 <S3RK_> hi
3262022-08-12T19:04:06 <achow101> From yesterday's general meeting, it seems like we've decided to try to get #19602 for 24.0. The feature freeze is on Monday
3272022-08-12T19:04:08 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/19602 | wallet: Migrate legacy wallets to descriptor wallets by achow101 · Pull Request #19602 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3282022-08-12T19:05:47 <S3RK_> I started reviewing this a long time ago, but lost all the context now. Need to start from scratch
3292022-08-12T19:05:59 <S3RK_> achow101 do you think we can get it reviewed by Mon?
3302022-08-12T19:06:29 <achow101> we may allow the feature freeze to slip a bit to get it in
3312022-08-12T19:06:46 <achow101> but probably not more than a week
3322022-08-12T19:07:54 <S3RK_> I'd imagine testing a big part of shipping this feature. What's the status with testing?
3332022-08-12T19:08:25 <achow101> I think reviewers have been testing manually
3342022-08-12T19:08:30 <achow101> there is also a functional test
3352022-08-12T19:08:40 <achow101> that tests several different scenarios
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3372022-08-12T19:09:17 <achow101> the rpc is also marked as experimental
3382022-08-12T19:09:26 <S3RK_> I agree it'd be great to have it 24.0 can only blame myself for not paying more attention to it
3392022-08-12T19:11:17 <S3RK_> I can spend some time on it from Mon. Probably can do either review or some manual testing. What do you think would be more helpful?
3402022-08-12T19:11:39 <furszy> should be more a "what might be missing" work than actual testing
3412022-08-12T19:11:41 <achow101> I think review would be more helpful
3422022-08-12T19:11:57 <achow101> the main thing is that legacy wallets can have some weird script scenarios that I might have missed
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3442022-08-12T19:12:05 <achow101> and manual testing probably won't get to those
3452022-08-12T19:12:11 <S3RK_> got it
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3482022-08-12T19:14:44 <achow101> is there anything else to discuss?
3492022-08-12T19:15:02 <S3RK_> one thing
3502022-08-12T19:15:29 <S3RK_> I thought maybe it could be interesting to do coin selection simulations for each release
3512022-08-12T19:16:15 <S3RK_> we do them for some PR which we think could have an effect, but sometimes the consequences are hard to predict
3522022-08-12T19:16:51 <S3RK_> do you think it'll be beneficial to just do checkpoints at release time? or maybe at some other interval?
3532022-08-12T19:16:57 <achow101> that could be interesting
3542022-08-12T19:17:36 <achow101> it would probably make sense to do one on the first rc of each release?
3552022-08-12T19:17:54 <S3RK_> yep. that sounds reasonable
3562022-08-12T19:18:12 <S3RK_> is there a checklist or something where we can add a bullet point?
3572022-08-12T19:18:17 <furszy> goal is bench speed/performance or the selection results?
3582022-08-12T19:18:25 <instagibbs> or feature freeze, in case you want to get a head start on a regression fix :P
3592022-08-12T19:18:34 <instagibbs> unless it's just informational
3602022-08-12T19:18:49 <S3RK_> catching a regression is definitely a part of it
3612022-08-12T19:19:36 <achow101> there's a release checklist in doc/release-process.md
3622022-08-12T19:19:53 <achow101> but this seems more like something that a wallet contributor remembers to do around release time
3632022-08-12T19:20:05 <achow101> it would be nice if we had an automated way to do simulations
3642022-08-12T19:20:14 <S3RK_> furszy: not speed, but rather effectiveness in terms of fees/utxo set/changeless tx
3652022-08-12T19:21:10 <S3RK_> for starters: a step in release process could be just to poke wallet maintainer :D
3662022-08-12T19:21:49 <S3RK_> ofc it'll be great to automate things. What are the challenges today? I saw achow101's optimizations got merged
3672022-08-12T19:22:24 <achow101> I think it's just a matter of doing it
3682022-08-12T19:22:40 <achow101> I know that josibake has a project that kind of automates simulations
3692022-08-12T19:22:44 <achow101> https://github.com/josibake/bitsie
3702022-08-12T19:23:12 <S3RK_> yep, I used it on a VM. Do you imagine just running simulation as a CI for each PR?
3712022-08-12T19:24:14 <achow101> I think that would be useful, but would probably have to be separate from our actual CI
3722022-08-12T19:24:21 <achow101> since they can take a really long time
3732022-08-12T19:25:03 <S3RK_> wouldn't we hit some limits in terms of CPU/jobs or run time?
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3752022-08-12T19:25:34 <S3RK_> sound heavy to run sims for all PRs
3762022-08-12T19:25:34 <achow101> yeah
3772022-08-12T19:25:57 <furszy> and there shouldn't be many PRs changing behavior there
3782022-08-12T19:26:06 <achow101> maybe something like the "guix build requested" label
3792022-08-12T19:26:19 <S3RK_> that's interesting
3802022-08-12T19:26:21 <instagibbs> yeah
3812022-08-12T19:26:53 <achow101> so we could just run it on the prs that would effect coin selection
3822022-08-12T19:27:11 <Murch> hi
3832022-08-12T19:29:29 <Murch> Yeah, that sounds interesting
3842022-08-12T19:30:27 <Murch> So far I've been running simulations manually, it would definitely be nice to get it automatically. How could we control how often it gets run though?
3852022-08-12T19:31:13 <Murch> Let's say if you spot a typo and forcepush to fix briefly after pushing, it shouldn't do the whole simulation twice.
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3872022-08-12T19:31:32 <Murch> Perhaps if we leave a few hours until kicking off the simulation and only run it for the latest version?
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3892022-08-12T19:32:14 <S3RK_> I like the idea with using a label to trigger the CI
3902022-08-12T19:32:21 <achow101> if we do it the same way that drahtbot guix builds work, then it's basically just triggered manually whenever the label is added
3912022-08-12T19:32:46 <achow101> the bot removes the label when it's done
3922022-08-12T19:35:13 <Murch> Who can add labels?
3932022-08-12T19:35:29 <achow101> anyone who has the permission
3942022-08-12T19:36:26 <S3RK_> hm.. is it a separate permission? I think I can't modify lables even for my PRs
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3972022-08-12T19:37:04 <achow101> it's a separate permission, but I think we give it out pretty freely
3982022-08-12T19:38:10 <S3RK_> it's good that it's separate
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4012022-08-12T19:40:21 <S3RK_> If nobody have more topics, I have one more thing about #25647
4022022-08-12T19:40:23 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/25647 | wallet: return change from SelectionResult by S3RK · Pull Request #25647 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4032022-08-12T19:40:26 <achow101> go ahead
4042022-08-12T19:40:41 <S3RK_> Murch pointed out a small issue with that PR
4052022-08-12T19:40:58 <S3RK_> at high fee rates LOWER_CHANGE won't cover change_fee
4062022-08-12T19:41:22 <S3RK_> I think easy way to fix that is to make LOWER_CHANGE dynamic = max(50000sat, change_fee)
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4082022-08-12T19:41:29 <S3RK_> any reasons why it's bad or won't work?
4092022-08-12T19:41:42 <S3RK_> sorry it's CHANGE_LOWER
4102022-08-12T19:41:59 <Murch> That sounds fine to me
4112022-08-12T19:42:15 <Murch> I don't think it'll be hit until well above 1000â¯s/vB anyway
4122022-08-12T19:42:31 <Murch> I'm not sure whether a change target that is exactly the fee makes sense, though
4132022-08-12T19:42:47 <Murch> maybe it should rather be fee+dust
4142022-08-12T19:42:53 <S3RK_> it's not change traget but rather CHANGE_LOWER
4152022-08-12T19:43:07 <S3RK_> then change target is calucalated using GenerateChangeTarget
4162022-08-12T19:43:24 <Murch> Ah right
4172022-08-12T19:43:41 <achow101> you could just change it to have that parameter include the fee?
4182022-08-12T19:43:55 <achow101> so m_min_change_target + m_change_fee
4192022-08-12T19:43:56 <Murch> Well, but it could still mean that if we roll a low value and match very closely, we would fall into the dust territory, right?
4202022-08-12T19:44:48 <S3RK_> I don't think it's possible. Given that dustRealy is 3sat/vb and we need to bump CHANGE_LOWER at fees about 1000sat/vb
4212022-08-12T19:44:54 <achow101> or rather GenerateChangeTarget should incorporate the change fee
4222022-08-12T19:46:03 <S3RK_> I like jsut adding m_min_change_target + m_change_fee
4232022-08-12T19:46:10 <S3RK_> that's also very clean and simple
4242022-08-12T19:46:43 <Murch> +1
4252022-08-12T19:47:53 <S3RK_> I'll add a commit to ensure change_target is always higher than change_fee using achow101 suggestion
4262022-08-12T19:47:56 <S3RK_> thanks
4272022-08-12T19:48:01 <achow101> cool
4282022-08-12T19:48:03 <achow101> anything else to discuss?
4292022-08-12T19:48:38 <S3RK_> not for my side
4302022-08-12T19:49:09 <Murch> I've spent a lot of time thinking about #24362 recently, I think that we could probably move it towards merging or closing
4312022-08-12T19:49:11 <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/24362 | wallet: Do not match legacy addresses for change type by achow101 · Pull Request #24362 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4322022-08-12T19:49:17 <Murch> I'm still on the fence
4332022-08-12T19:50:02 <Murch> right now fees are so low, I'd say close it and just match the legacy outputs, but in the long-term I do think that it would potentially create unexpected costs for users
4342022-08-12T19:50:16 <Murch> that is, not to merge it
4352022-08-12T19:50:42 <S3RK_> if you don't want to create legacy change outputs you shouldn't have a descriptor
4362022-08-12T19:50:51 <S3RK_> it's possible to deactivate a descriptor
4372022-08-12T19:50:59 <S3RK_> unless we're talking legacy wallets :D
4382022-08-12T19:51:06 <achow101> well legacy wallets are still a thing
4392022-08-12T19:51:36 <Murch> S3RK_: I think we have to operate under the assumption that most users will never change a config option or otherwise customize their wallet
4402022-08-12T19:52:23 <S3RK_> I can see why asking users to understand decsriptors could be too much
4412022-08-12T19:52:32 <Murch> And it might feel "more surprising" to a user that they suddenly sent themselves a legacy change output than the opposite
4422022-08-12T19:52:39 <S3RK_> but do you think it's too much for them to be aware what types their wallet supports?
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4452022-08-12T19:54:33 <Murch> Yeah
4462022-08-12T19:54:43 <S3RK_> it feels to me adding more special cases like this make wallet behavior opaque and unpredictable in a way
4472022-08-12T19:54:46 <Murch> I think that most users would probably be aware w
4482022-08-12T19:54:54 <Murch> of the type of outputs they use for receivling only
4492022-08-12T19:55:13 <S3RK_> this is already good enough
4502022-08-12T19:55:27 <Murch> S3RK_: "Special case" as in not matching the recipient with the change just for legacy, or "special case" matching recipient outputs in the first place?
4512022-08-12T19:55:43 <S3RK_> the first
4522022-08-12T19:55:55 <achow101> I think right now it's not a problem, and perhaps we could revisit this if users start complaining or we see a noticeable increase in legacy usage?
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4542022-08-12T19:56:17 <achow101> I would hope this becomes moot and legacy usage dies out
4552022-08-12T19:56:18 <Murch> achow101: Alright, then let's close it for now?
4562022-08-12T19:56:37 <achow101> sure
4572022-08-12T19:56:45 <Murch> Yeah, hopefully before feerates go up again, or at least when feerates start going up againâ¦
4582022-08-12T19:57:32 <achow101> further proposals like josie[m]'s idea of using a different address type for change when the inputs match the recipients would also mitigate this somewhat
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4652022-08-12T19:58:27 <achow101> anything else to talk about in the last minute of the meeting?
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4672022-08-12T19:58:31 <Murch> I like the idea (but then, it was mine :p), but I think it should only happen when we would use the given input set already for cost reasons until we have a better way to score privacy benefits in a numeric fashion
4682022-08-12T20:00:01 <achow101> #endmeeting
4692022-08-12T20:00:01 <core-meetingbot> topic: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt / http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedwalletmeetingtopics.txt
4702022-08-12T20:00:01 <core-meetingbot> Meeting ended Fri Aug 12 20:00:01 2022 UTC.
4712022-08-12T20:00:01 <core-meetingbot> Minutes: https://bitcoin.jonasschnelli.ch/ircmeetings/logs/bitcoin-core-dev/2022/bitcoin-core-dev.2022-08-12-19.01.moin.txt
4722022-08-12T20:00:10 <S3RK_> thanks achow101
4732022-08-12T20:00:20 <Murch> Yeah, thanks :)
4742022-08-12T20:00:31 <S3RK_> Murch, how do folks control receiving types today? Is it possible to setup default in GUI?
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4762022-08-12T20:01:10 <Murch> I think it should be possible in the receive tab to pick the output type, yes
4772022-08-12T20:01:29 <Murch> And otherwise the default is currently bech32, afair
4782022-08-12T20:01:35 <S3RK_> then you can contorl change type there as well
4792022-08-12T20:02:09 <furszy> yep, there is a spin box there
4802022-08-12T20:02:11 <S3RK_> otherwise if you have an option to setup default, it would be a good place to also setup your defaults for change output types
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4822022-08-12T20:02:45 <S3RK_> I don't really see how recipient types and change types that much different
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5012022-08-12T21:05:18 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 closed pull request #24362: wallet: Do not match legacy addresses for change type (master...rm-legacy-change) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24362
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5082022-08-12T21:25:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] russeree closed pull request #24935: mempool: Add usdt event tracepoints and eBPF logging tool. (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24935
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