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 872024-02-01T11:51:26  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #29361: refactor: Fix timedata includes (master...2402-timedata-includes-) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29361
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 902024-02-01T11:54:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #29362: build: Add missed definition for `AM_OBJCXXFLAGS` (master...240201-objcxx) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29362
 912024-02-01T11:56:07  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] dergoegge closed pull request #29010: wip: Split fuzz binary (master...2023-12-split-fuzz) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29010
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 942024-02-01T12:24:01  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #29363: test: Fix CPartialMerkleTree.nTransactions signedness (master...2402-test-fix-sign-) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29363
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1152024-02-01T14:00:13  <achow101> #startmeeting
1162024-02-01T14:00:33  <TheCharlatan> hi
1172024-02-01T14:00:36  <sdaftuar> hi
1182024-02-01T14:00:48  <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: achow101 _aj_ amiti ariard aureleoules b10c BlueMatt brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge dongcarl fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto instagibbs jamesob jarolrod jonatack josibake kallewoof kanzure kouloumos kvaciral laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr MacroFake Murch phantomcircuit pinheadmz promag provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa theStack TheCharlatan vasild
1192024-02-01T14:00:51  <sipa> hi
1202024-02-01T14:00:54  <abubakarsadiq> hi
1212024-02-01T14:01:03  <achow101> There are no pre-proposed meeting topics this week. Any last minute ones to add?
1222024-02-01T14:01:07  <furszy> hi
1232024-02-01T14:01:14  <dergoegge> hi
1242024-02-01T14:01:17  <LarryRuane> hi
1252024-02-01T14:01:24  <stickies-v> hi
1262024-02-01T14:01:31  <kanzure> hi
1272024-02-01T14:01:35  <achow101> #topic package relay updates (glozow)
1282024-02-01T14:01:50  <maxedw> hi
1292024-02-01T14:01:51  <josie> hi
1302024-02-01T14:01:55  <glozow> #28948 is the priority. It seems to be maturing
1312024-02-01T14:01:56  <cfields> hi
1322024-02-01T14:01:57  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28948 | v3 transaction policy for anti-pinning by glozow · Pull Request #28948 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1332024-02-01T14:02:05  <kanzure> mailing list migration is still in progress, linuxfoundation.org has delivered the mbox file and i have stopped inbound emails for now
1342024-02-01T14:02:25  <achow101> kanzure: we can do that as a topic later
1352024-02-01T14:02:27  <glozow> We're looking to hear back from some more people on #29319
1362024-02-01T14:02:28  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29319 | Cluster mempool, CPFP carveout, and V3 transaction policy · Issue #29319 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1372024-02-01T14:02:53  <theStack> hi
1382024-02-01T14:03:00  <kanzure> achow101: i am AFK, just wanted to drop in. feel free to send questions or bug RubenSomsen.
1392024-02-01T14:03:19  <glozow> #28950 review club next week
1402024-02-01T14:03:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28950 | RPC: Add maxfeerate and maxburnamount args to submitpackage by instagibbs · Pull Request #28950 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1412024-02-01T14:03:20  <kevkevin> hi
1422024-02-01T14:03:28  <hebasto> hi
1432024-02-01T14:03:46  <achow101> glozow: comments in 29319 shouldn't affect 28948, yes?
1442024-02-01T14:03:57  <sipa> #28948
1452024-02-01T14:03:58  <Murch[m]> hi
1462024-02-01T14:03:59  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28948 | v3 transaction policy for anti-pinning by glozow · Pull Request #28948 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1472024-02-01T14:04:28  <glozow> v3 shouldn't be blocked by it
1482024-02-01T14:04:32  <RubenSomsen> hi
1492024-02-01T14:04:50  <sdaftuar> but if somehow the v3 proposal doesn't meet the needs of LN we should give some thought to how to proceed
1502024-02-01T14:04:55  <fjahr> hi
1512024-02-01T14:05:08  <sdaftuar> as the parameters have been chosen to be compatible with that usecase
1522024-02-01T14:05:32  <glozow> That's true.
1532024-02-01T14:05:44  <achow101> ok, makes sense
1542024-02-01T14:06:16  <achow101> #topic silent payments updates (josie)
1552024-02-01T14:06:35  <josie> #28122 is the priority for review
1562024-02-01T14:06:38  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28122 | Silent Payments: Implement BIP352 by josibake · Pull Request #28122 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1572024-02-01T14:07:23  <josie> also, theStack opened a draft silentpayments libsecp module in secp256k1/#1471
1582024-02-01T14:07:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1471 | Add new P2P command and response: "getcmds", "cmdlist" by jgarzik · Pull Request #1471 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1592024-02-01T14:07:34  <josie> looking for feedback on the module API
1602024-02-01T14:08:20  <achow101> what's the secp module for?
1612024-02-01T14:08:53  <josie> all the crypto parts of silent payments, basically
1622024-02-01T14:09:27  <achow101> iirc libsecp has enough stuff exposed to implement silent payments, so it's just to abstract some of that away?
1632024-02-01T14:10:01  <sipa> not efficiently
1642024-02-01T14:10:11  <josie> yeah, not efficiently and not ideal
1652024-02-01T14:10:13  <willcl-ark> hi
1662024-02-01T14:10:14  <fjahr> Does #28122 use the module already?
1672024-02-01T14:10:16  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28122 | Silent Payments: Implement BIP352 by josibake · Pull Request #28122 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1682024-02-01T14:10:38  <sipa> and it'd be using fairly low-level operations (pubkey addition) which we'd like to get rid of
1692024-02-01T14:11:06  <sipa> the trend in libsecp256k1 has been to focus on higher-level, hard-to-abuse, APIs
1702024-02-01T14:11:06  <josie> fjahr: nope, but thats a good question.. when we spoke about it last coredev, the expectation was that a secp module would move slower and its fine to continue with the PR as is with the plan to use the module when its ready
1712024-02-01T14:11:14  <fanquake> sounds like something we don't want to start doing in our codebase. If it's going to be a blocker to upstream making changes and or us pulling updates
1722024-02-01T14:12:26  <josie> sipa: which is good for other implementations as well! if we had a high level, hard to abuse api, it de-risks wallets outside of core implementing bip352
1732024-02-01T14:12:50  <sipa> indeed
1742024-02-01T14:12:56  <achow101> i'd much rather not have to review basically 2 different implementations
1752024-02-01T14:13:10  <achow101> so if the secp is likely to happen, then it should go first
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1772024-02-01T14:13:20  <achow101> and 28122 should use it
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1792024-02-01T14:13:43  <josie> im fine with that! and agree that reviewing two in tandem is gross. honestly wasnt expecting the secp module to make progress as quickly as it did (h/t theStack)
1802024-02-01T14:13:56  <fjahr> yeah, if the module is used right away that will motivate more people to review secp faster as well.
1812024-02-01T14:14:36  <josie> cool, well then per this discussion ill update #28122 to use the libsecp module
1822024-02-01T14:14:39  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28122 | Silent Payments: Implement BIP352 by josibake · Pull Request #28122 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1832024-02-01T14:14:56  <josie> which should help make the API discussion more productive, since we will have at least one user of the API
1842024-02-01T14:15:37  <josie> thats all for me
1852024-02-01T14:15:59  <achow101> #topic multiprocess updates (ryanofsky)
1862024-02-01T14:16:18  <ryanofsky> #28921 was merged, #28929 is out for review, and I will open a new PR soon with 3 commits from the multiprocess branch #10102 exposing interfaces::Chain over IPC
1872024-02-01T14:16:20  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28921 | multiprocess: Add basic type conversion hooks by ryanofsky · Pull Request #28921 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1882024-02-01T14:16:21  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/28929 | serialization: Support for multiple parameters by ryanofsky · Pull Request #28929 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1892024-02-01T14:16:24  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/10102 | Multiprocess bitcoin by ryanofsky · Pull Request #10102 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1902024-02-01T14:16:46  <ryanofsky> That's all for me
1912024-02-01T14:17:01  <achow101> #topic Ad-hoc high priority for review
1922024-02-01T14:17:05  <achow101> Anything to add or remove from https://github.com/orgs/bitcoin/projects/1/views/4
1932024-02-01T14:17:39  <achow101> Or any other topics to discuss?
1942024-02-01T14:17:42  <sipa> i'd like to briefly bring up #29284
1952024-02-01T14:17:43  <gribble> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29284 | Choose earliest-activatable as tie breaker between equal-work chains by sipa · Pull Request #29284 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1962024-02-01T14:17:59  <achow101> sipa: as a topic?
1972024-02-01T14:18:48  <sipa> in theory, it's a huge change, in practice i don't think it'll really affect anything
1982024-02-01T14:18:55  <sipa> but i'd like to draw some attention to it
1992024-02-01T14:19:01  <sipa> that's it, unless people have questions
2002024-02-01T14:20:49  <vasild> hi
2012024-02-01T14:22:22  <sipa> s/huge/fundamental/
2022024-02-01T14:22:51  <achow101> anything else to talk about?
2032024-02-01T14:22:59  <josie> if there are no other topics, is there q update on the mailing list?
2042024-02-01T14:23:06  <vasild> where is the mailing list migrating to?
2052024-02-01T14:23:49  <achow101> last I heard, mailing list is actually shutting down imminently and will be moving to groups.io. Maybe RubenSomsen can provide more details?
2062024-02-01T14:23:55  <sipa> kanzure: i am baffled to hear "i am AFK" coming from you
2072024-02-01T14:24:23  <_aj_> sipa: neuralink announced its first human subject the other day?
2082024-02-01T14:24:35  <RubenSomsen> I found some issues with groups io, we've been talking with them to get it resolved
2092024-02-01T14:24:39  <Murch[m]> Good point, I thought kanzure and his keyboard were a permanent cybernetic system
2102024-02-01T14:25:08  <achow101> RubenSomsen: can you say what kind of issues?
2112024-02-01T14:25:15  <RubenSomsen> We might still opt for Google groups depending on how it pans out
2122024-02-01T14:25:43  <josie> in the meanwhile, is delving the best place for soliciting feedback on proposals?
2132024-02-01T14:26:03  <RubenSomsen> Emails had an unsubscribe link that required no authentication. Forwarding an email would allow whoever received the email to unsubscribe you.
2142024-02-01T14:26:13  <sipa> RubenSomsen: ouch
2152024-02-01T14:26:24  <sipa> delving seems to be starting to get a pretty good crowd
2162024-02-01T14:27:12  <RubenSomsen> Imo the mailing list should continue to exist, and delving alongside it
2172024-02-01T14:27:40  <achow101> any idea when the migration will be completed?
2182024-02-01T14:28:14  <achow101> no longer being able to send to the list now is kinda bothersome, especially for conversations that were happening on the list and not elsewhere
2192024-02-01T14:29:14  <vasild> what would a migration look like? a migration of some web-archive of past emails, or would existent subscribers would automatically be subscribed to e.g. bitcoin@groups.io?
2202024-02-01T14:29:33  <RubenSomsen> The bug was just fixed. I just tested and confirmed. We want to finalize things soon. Especially if we're stopping emails on the current list that forces us to do something asap.
2212024-02-01T14:30:38  <sipa> great
2222024-02-01T14:32:20  <RubenSomsen> vasild: to be determined, but it may be cleaner to let people re-subscribe. We have a lot of weird subscribers that are probably spam.
2232024-02-01T14:32:52  <achow101> presumably there'll be a final email on the current list with instructions
2242024-02-01T14:33:03  <RubenSomsen> yeah
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2262024-02-01T14:33:37  <vasild> ok, so it looks like there is nothing to be migrated? just a new list people can use (subscribe and send emails to)?
2272024-02-01T14:33:55  <sipa> given the mbox comment, i guess the history will be imported?
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2302024-02-01T14:34:51  <vasild> right, which I guess will be available via some kind of web ui?
2312024-02-01T14:34:57  <achow101> wherever the new official archive is, I think history will also be imported there too, so it'll all be in one place. otherwise, it's just a new mailing list
2322024-02-01T14:35:02  <RubenSomsen> I think that's more for archiving purposes than importing.
2332024-02-01T14:35:20  <sipa> RubenSomsen: oh, unfortunate
2342024-02-01T14:35:55  <RubenSomsen> We have to archive the new mailing list somewhere too, so maybe that place can host both the new and old archive
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2372024-02-01T14:37:34  <achow101> anything else to discuss?
2382024-02-01T14:38:04  <RubenSomsen> I'd be curious to hear if anyone has strong objections to Google groups. We're currently experimenting with both.
2392024-02-01T14:39:02  <maxedw> Is one free and one not? Does that factor?
2402024-02-01T14:39:13  <vasild> is it going to be this one https://groups.io/g/bitcoindev ?
2412024-02-01T14:39:34  <RubenSomsen> If we're going with groups io then yes, but that's to be determined
2422024-02-01T14:39:43  <vasild> RubenSomsen: not sure if that counts as "strong objection", but I would not subscribe to google groups
2432024-02-01T14:40:47  <RubenSomsen> groups is unfortunately paid per subscriber, which could potentially be an issue if we get mass subscription spam
2442024-02-01T14:41:16  <RubenSomsen> vasild: it would be helpful to know why you wouldn't
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2462024-02-01T14:42:42  <sipa> how many subscribers does the current list have?
2472024-02-01T14:42:53  <vasild> RubenSomsen: because I think it is against bitcoin mindset (at least my mindset) and also against an attempt to de-google myself
2482024-02-01T14:42:59  <RubenSomsen> 2000
2492024-02-01T14:43:08  <_aj_> if groups.io fixes things when you complain, that seems like it's probably better than what you'd get from google?
2502024-02-01T14:43:30  <vasild> (not trying to focrce my opinion on anybody, I don't mind if people are happy with google groups, it is just that I will not use it)
2512024-02-01T14:43:55  <RubenSomsen> _aj_: Yes, we're happy with how responsive they've been.
2522024-02-01T14:45:23  <RubenSomsen> Sorry 4000, misremembered
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2542024-02-01T14:45:52  <vasild> $0.04 per member per month, that is $160/month (https://groups.io/static/pricing)
2552024-02-01T14:46:11  <achow101> i guess the main thing is that groups.io could get expensive?
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2582024-02-01T14:46:53  <RubenSomsen> We can easily find people to sponsor that amount, but if we get spammed with subscribers that could become an issue
2592024-02-01T14:46:55  <sipa> i do agree with vasild' sentiment about google groups, though pragmatically, i would still subscribe
2602024-02-01T14:47:35  <vasild> achow101: yeah, that $0.04 may be rised in the future
2612024-02-01T14:47:37  <_aj_> setup a btcpay store and require people to pay 50c to stay subscribed after a year?
2622024-02-01T14:47:47  <sipa> and groups.io is probably not that different from a cost for hosting ourselves if we need to pay people to maintain things
2632024-02-01T14:48:03  <hebasto> if there is possibility to spam some adversary will use it
2642024-02-01T14:48:36  <sipa> RubenSomsen: is there some kind of spam protection we could get? like if there is a sudden influx of subscribers that get kicked quickly, we don't get billed for it?
2652024-02-01T14:48:51  <vasild> too many spam/unwanted subscribers should be a common problem for any group at groups.io, how do they solve it?
2662024-02-01T14:49:20  <sipa> maybe this discussion belongs elsewhere, though
2672024-02-01T14:49:31  <_aj_> on the mailing list? :)
2682024-02-01T14:49:34  <RubenSomsen> sipa: I sent them my concern about mass subscription and am awaiting the reply. Hopefully they have some thoughts.
2692024-02-01T14:49:53  <sipa> _aj_: i thought there was an IRC channel about discussing the migration too
2702024-02-01T14:49:56  <vasild> even groups.io have incentive to sneak some moderate dummy subscribers themselves
2712024-02-01T14:49:57  <achow101> There's a ##bitcoin-dev-lists channel
2722024-02-01T14:50:05  <RubenSomsen> Yeah let's take this there
2732024-02-01T14:50:57  <achow101> seems like there wasn't anything else to discuss for today
2742024-02-01T14:50:59  <achow101> #endmeeting
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2832024-02-01T15:48:43  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] knst opened pull request #29364: refactor: Remove excess reserve() call for SecureString (master...bitcoin-knst-secure-string) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29364
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2852024-02-01T15:58:05  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 5 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/aa9231fafe45...f879c1b24afd
2862024-02-01T15:58:05  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master facaa66 MarcoFalke: refactor: Add missing default constructor to prevector iterators
2872024-02-01T15:58:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa44a60 MarcoFalke: refactor: Fix constness for prevector iterators
2882024-02-01T15:58:06  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fab8a01 MarcoFalke: refactor: Fix binary operator+ for prevector iterators
2892024-02-01T15:58:12  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #29275: refactor: Fix prevector iterator concept issues (master...2401-prev-it-) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29275
2902024-02-01T16:11:44  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f879c1b24afd...5b8c5970bdfc
2912024-02-01T16:11:45  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 25dc87e Cory Fields: libconsensus: deprecate
2922024-02-01T16:11:46  <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5b8c597 fanquake: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#29189: RFC: Deprecate libconsensus
2932024-02-01T16:11:52  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #29189: RFC: Deprecate libconsensus (master...deprecate-libconsensus) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29189
2942024-02-01T16:12:30  <fanquake> 🥹
2952024-02-01T16:12:42  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #28661: libconsensus: adapt API header to be compliant to ANSI C (master...202310-libconsensus-ansi_c_api_header) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/28661
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2982024-02-01T16:24:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] TheCharlatan closed pull request #29123: build: Remove HAVE_CONSENSUS_LIB (master...noconsensus) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29123
2992024-02-01T16:36:31  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] starius opened pull request #29365: Extend signetchallenge to set target block spacing (master...signet-blockitme-in-challenge) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29365
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3052024-02-01T17:06:05  <josie> fanquake: end of an era
3062024-02-01T17:09:44  <PaperSword> Why is there 4K weight units subtracted from template generation by default?
3072024-02-01T17:09:44  <PaperSword> static constexpr unsigned int DEFAULT_BLOCK_MAX_WEIGHT{MAX_BLOCK_WEIGHT - 4000};
3082024-02-01T17:09:44  <PaperSword> Is there a technical reason or just some safety margin?
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3102024-02-01T17:15:03  <glozow> PaperSword: margin for the coinbase
3112024-02-01T17:18:51  <PaperSword> So if one modifies their coinbase to use over that 4000WUs then you could generate invalid blocks if you don't adjust that parameter to account for the added size.
3122024-02-01T17:19:22  <PaperSword> btw thank you for the response.
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3322024-02-01T19:36:00  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Christewart closed pull request #29265: Add `SigVersion` parameter to `IsOpSuccess()` (master...2024-01-17-isopsuccess-leafver) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29265
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3622024-02-01T23:14:30  <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 opened pull request #29367: wallet: Set descriptors flag after migrating blank wallets (master...set-descriptors-flag-migrated-blank) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29367
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