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232025-04-24T04:19:02 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] nervana21 opened pull request #32333: doc: Add missing top-level description to pruneblockchain RPC (master...04-23-rpc-pruneblockchain-doc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32333
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492025-04-24T07:39:26 <laanwj> good news, with https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/pull/1064 merged, joinmarket finally doesn't require legacy wallets anymore
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522025-04-24T07:57:19 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #32335: ci: Temporarily disable failing bpf checks (master...2504-ci-bpf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32335
532025-04-24T08:27:10 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #32336: test: Suppress upstream `-Wduplicate-decl-specifier` in bpfcc (master...2504-test-bpf-cflags) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32336
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692025-04-24T10:02:25 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko closed pull request #32335: ci: Temporarily disable failing bpf checks (master...2504-ci-bpf) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32335
702025-04-24T10:03:10 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9efe54668858...458720e5e98c
712025-04-24T10:03:11 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master fa0c1ba MarcoFalke: test: Add imports for util bpf_cflags
722025-04-24T10:03:11 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master facb9b3 MarcoFalke: scripted-diff: Use bpf_cflags
732025-04-24T10:03:11 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 458720e Hennadii Stepanov: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#32336: test: Suppress upstream `-Wduplicate-decl-spe...
742025-04-24T10:03:15 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] hebasto merged pull request #32336: test: Suppress upstream `-Wduplicate-decl-specifier` in bpfcc (master...2504-test-bpf-cflags) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32336
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812025-04-24T10:38:11 <bitcoin-git> [gui] laanwj opened pull request #868: qt: Replace stray tfm::format to cerr with qWarning (master...2025-05-qt-stray-format) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/868
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1132025-04-24T14:33:07 <jeremyrubin> sipa: noticed that minisketch is using std::uniform_int_distribution and std::random_device... might make sense to do proper seeding as this might, on some platforms, give you the same seed for every object made. Also, std::uniform_int_distribution can be platform dependent (in case any tests are supposed to rely on a specific value being
1142025-04-24T14:33:07 <jeremyrubin> generated)
1152025-04-24T14:36:54 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vasild opened pull request #32338: net: remove unnecessary check from AlreadyConnectedToAddress() (master...AlreadyConnectedToAddress) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32338
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1172025-04-24T14:51:58 <sipa> jeremyrubin: seems like a good idea, yeah
1182025-04-24T14:53:01 <sipa> (to use explicit initialization)
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1262025-04-24T15:25:36 <jeremyrubin> is minisketch a submodule with repo elsewhere? or is it fully in tree
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1292025-04-24T15:37:32 <sipa> it's a subtree, like all other pinned dependencies (libsecp256k1, ctaes, crc32c, leveldb)
1302025-04-24T15:38:06 <sipa> This cannot make flows or excesses negative, or decrease distance to the sink.
1312025-04-24T15:38:09 <sipa> eh
1322025-04-24T15:38:10 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/minisketch
1332025-04-24T15:38:23 <sipa> The keys are like right next to each other.
1342025-04-24T15:43:50 <laanwj> lol
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1362025-04-24T15:49:15 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #32339: ci: Merge fuzz task for macOS and Windows (master...2504-ci-merge) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32339
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1412025-04-24T16:00:18 <achow101> #startmeeting
1422025-04-24T16:00:18 <corebot> achow101: Meeting started at 2025-04-24T16:00+0000
1432025-04-24T16:00:19 <corebot> achow101: Current chairs: achow101
1442025-04-24T16:00:20 <corebot> achow101: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
1452025-04-24T16:00:21 <corebot> achow101: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
1462025-04-24T16:00:22 <corebot> achow101: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'
1472025-04-24T16:00:27 <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: abubakarsadiq achow101 _aj_ ajonas b10c brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto instagibbs jarolrod jonatack josibake kanzure laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr maflcko marcofleon maxedw Murch pinheadmz provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa sr_gi tdb3 theStack TheCharlatan vasild willcl-ark
1482025-04-24T16:00:30 <rkrux> hi
1492025-04-24T16:00:32 <hebasto> hi
1502025-04-24T16:00:33 <TheCharlatan> hi
1512025-04-24T16:00:36 <maxedw> hi
1522025-04-24T16:00:39 <vasild> hi
1532025-04-24T16:00:40 <lightlike> Hi
1542025-04-24T16:00:40 <willcl-ark> hi
1552025-04-24T16:00:41 <furszy> hi
1562025-04-24T16:00:49 <fjahr> hi
1572025-04-24T16:00:51 <Murch[m]> Hi
1582025-04-24T16:00:53 <sr_gi[m]> hi
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1602025-04-24T16:01:05 <achow101> There's 1 preproposed meeting topic this week, any last minute ones to add?
1612025-04-24T16:01:06 <johnny9dev> hi
1622025-04-24T16:01:09 <laanwj> hi
1632025-04-24T16:01:10 <dzxzg> hi
1642025-04-24T16:01:19 <sipa> hi, at lunch (as are glozow and darosior), we'll be there in a few
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1682025-04-24T16:01:52 <achow101> sipa: glozow: I'll put your working group updates at the end of the list
1692025-04-24T16:02:10 <achow101> #topic Erlay WG Update (sr_gi, gleb)
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1712025-04-24T16:03:03 <glozow> (I donât have updates for orphan reso fwiw)
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1732025-04-24T16:03:25 <sr_gi[m]> Not much to report this week. I extended the functional tests to cover all protocol violations and edge cases and started working on Warnet deployment to test Erlay. I just started running some tests on Warnet
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1762025-04-24T16:04:02 <sr_gi[m]> That's all
1772025-04-24T16:04:09 <achow101> #topic Kernel WG Update (TheCharlatan)
1782025-04-24T16:04:17 <TheCharlatan> Still looking for review on #31382 and hunting Approach ACKs on #30595
1792025-04-24T16:04:20 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31382 | kernel: Flush in ChainstateManager destructor by TheCharlatan · Pull Request #31382 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1802025-04-24T16:04:22 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/30595 | kernel: Introduce initial C header API by TheCharlatan · Pull Request #30595 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1812025-04-24T16:04:29 <TheCharlatan> Floresta (the Rust Utreexo client) has started experimental integration of the library through its Rust wrapper: https://github.com/vinteumorg/Floresta/pull/456
1822025-04-24T16:04:43 <TheCharlatan> They reported a significant validation speedup with the new kernel API design over the old libbitcoinconsensus API
1832025-04-24T16:04:50 <laanwj> neat
1842025-04-24T16:04:50 <sipa> TheCharlatan: that seems exciting
1852025-04-24T16:04:52 <achow101> that's cool
1862025-04-24T16:05:27 <TheCharlatan> yes, very cool that they decided to go and experiment with already :)
1872025-04-24T16:05:34 <cfields> hi
1882025-04-24T16:05:43 <TheCharlatan> I opened #32317 for separating retrieving, and spending Coins from the rest of block validation. This could more easily allow for validating blocks with just the coins spent in the block without the need to maintain a full utxo set.
1892025-04-24T16:05:46 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32317 | kernel: Separate UTXO set access from validation functions by TheCharlatan · Pull Request #32317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1902025-04-24T16:06:03 <TheCharlatan> This is potentially useful for building things like non-assumevalid swiftsync and utreexo through a kernel API.
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1922025-04-24T16:06:14 <cfields> ð
1932025-04-24T16:06:59 <TheCharlatan> that's all from me
1942025-04-24T16:07:16 <achow101> #topic MuSig2 WG Update (achow101, rkrux)
1952025-04-24T16:07:22 <achow101> Both #31243 and #31247 were merged. The remaining PRs have been rebased and updated.
1962025-04-24T16:07:28 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31243 | descriptor: Move filling of keys from `DescriptorImpl::MakeScripts` to `PubkeyProvider::GetPubKey` by achow101 · Pull Request #31243 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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1982025-04-24T16:07:30 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31247 | psbt: MuSig2 Fields by achow101 · Pull Request #31247 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1992025-04-24T16:07:33 <achow101> The current PRs to review are #31622 and #31244
2002025-04-24T16:07:38 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31622 | psbt: add non-default sighash types to PSBTs and unify sighash type match checking by achow101 · Pull Request #31622 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2012025-04-24T16:07:40 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31244 | descriptors: MuSig2 by achow101 · Pull Request #31244 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2032025-04-24T16:07:46 <achow101> #topic Legacy Wallet Removal WG Update (achow101, furszy)
2042025-04-24T16:07:55 <achow101> #31250 has been getting additional review and a few minor issues uncovered. I've addressed all remaining comments on it.
2052025-04-24T16:07:57 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31250 | wallet: Disable creating and loading legacy wallets by achow101 · Pull Request #31250 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2062025-04-24T16:07:59 <achow101> It's probably rfm
2072025-04-24T16:08:15 <achow101> #topic QML GUI WG Update (jarolrod, johnny9dev)
2082025-04-24T16:08:21 <johnny9dev> Took a bit longer to get back in a rhythm after being away for 2 weeks but I managed to fix some issues found by Marnix as well as handle the case when there are no Coins to select in my Coin Control PR (bitcoin-core/gui-qml#448).
2092025-04-24T16:08:21 *** dzxzg <dzxzg!~dzxzg@user/dzxzg> has quit IRC (Quit: Client closed)
2102025-04-24T16:08:22 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/448 | Introduce Coin Selection page by johnny9 · Pull Request #448 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
2112025-04-24T16:08:27 <laanwj> yes seems rfm or very near
2122025-04-24T16:08:28 <johnny9dev> I think that should be it for this iteration of coin control and will be looking to merge this is as well as start the PR for multiple send recipients next
2132025-04-24T16:08:36 <sipa> hi
2142025-04-24T16:08:55 <stickies-v> hi
2152025-04-24T16:09:26 <johnny9dev> thats all for gui-qml for this week
2162025-04-24T16:09:36 <achow101> #topic Script Validation WG Update (fjahr)
2172025-04-24T16:09:44 <fjahr> Nothing new to report as far as Iâm aware. Still looking for approach feedback on #29491 and working on tests.
2182025-04-24T16:09:47 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29491 | [EXPERIMENTAL] Schnorr batch verification for blocks by fjahr · Pull Request #29491 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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2202025-04-24T16:10:11 <achow101> #topic Cluster Mempool WG Update (sdaftuar, sipa)
2212025-04-24T16:11:00 <sipa> The next PR to review remains #31444, which has been getting some ACKs. Hopefully some more soon; it also had a review club yesterday.
2222025-04-24T16:11:02 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31444 | cluster mempool: add txgraph diagrams/mining/eviction by sipa · Pull Request #31444 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2232025-04-24T16:12:51 <sipa> On the research front, I've made two big posts on Delving, https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/how-to-linearize-your-cluster/303/68 and https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/how-to-linearize-your-cluster/303/73 with a summary of the differences between the 3 broad classes of linearization algorithms (old exponential, spanning forest based on the LP formulation from the Bitcoin Research Week, and the min-cut based
2242025-04-24T16:12:57 <sipa> one from the 1989 paper), and benchmarks for it.
2252025-04-24T16:13:18 <sipa> I'm planning to open a PR to implement the spanning-forest one in the next week or so.
2262025-04-24T16:13:35 <sipa> If you want to understand the justification, and trade-offs involved, please see the posts.
2272025-04-24T16:14:18 <sipa> That's it for me, unless there are any questions.
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2292025-04-24T16:15:43 <achow101> #topic Move the repo to bitcoin-core github organization (achow101)
2302025-04-24T16:15:50 <achow101> This past week, the topic of moving the repo to bitcoin-core has come up again due to possible issues with conflicting moderation between bitcoin/bitcoin and bitcoin/bips. The main point is that bans are issued at the organization level, but Bitcoin Core and BIPs are really two separate projects. It is therefore conceivable that Bitcoin Core would want to ban someone, but BIPs would not, and vice versa. Under the current setup, any ban from one
2312025-04-24T16:15:50 <achow101> repo is necessarily a ban from both because it is a ban from the organization.
2322025-04-24T16:15:54 <achow101> The solution to this issue is to not have both Bitcoin Core and BIPs under the same organization. We already have the bitcoin-core organization where all of our new repos go anyways, it would entirely make sense to move bitcoin/bitcoin to bitcoin-core/bitcoin-core, or something like that. There's also a bitcoin-bips organization that was created a couple of years ago for this, so bips could be moved there. But I think that's for the bip editors
2332025-04-24T16:15:55 <achow101> to discuss.
2342025-04-24T16:15:59 <achow101> Moving the repo to bitcoin-core would also reduce administration overhead - primarily that keeping 2 organizations' member and team lists in sync is kind of annoying.
2352025-04-24T16:16:06 <achow101> Transferring the repo is trivial - the same people are owners of both bitcoin and bitcoin-core, it's just a matter of clicking the button. However, it is also something that I think requires contributor buy-in, and notice that it's happening.
2362025-04-24T16:16:16 <achow101> The main issue that there could be is of course that bitcoin/bitcoin is referenced in a ton of places. However, github already handles this by redirecting all links from the old repo location to the new repo location. All PRs and issues are transferred, all links automatically redirect, and git remotes will automatically redirect too so no one would even have to change their git config. All that needs to happen is that a bitcoin/bitcoin repo
2372025-04-24T16:16:16 <achow101> cannot be created after the transfer as that will break all of the redirects.
2382025-04-24T16:16:22 <achow101> If everyone is okay with this, I can do it right after the meeting.
2392025-04-24T16:16:31 <achow101> sorry for the wall of text
2402025-04-24T16:17:09 <fjahr> FWIW, I have recently moved a few repos from my personal github account to the asmap org and I have not noticed any disruption, if that's a concern for anyone...
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2422025-04-24T16:17:24 <laanwj> sounds good to me, as long as the old git URL will keep working , it's been the plan for as long as the bitcoin-core org exists, really
2432025-04-24T16:17:31 <achow101> We recently moved libmultiprocess as well, from https://github.com/chaincodelabs/libmultiprocess which was moved to https://github.com/bitcoin-core/libmultiprocess
2442025-04-24T16:17:33 <glozow> Another solution is to move the bips repo somewhere else? iirc laanwj mentioned having an org already?
2452025-04-24T16:17:33 <fjahr> There are redirects and they have worked without issue
2462025-04-24T16:18:10 <darosior> I can attest that redirect still work for me on a project i moved 4 years ago, for what it's worth.
2472025-04-24T16:18:13 <laanwj> yes could move the bips repo as well, empty out "bitcoin" completely eventually
2482025-04-24T16:18:14 <fanquake> wouldn't moving the repo break the setup of banning from bitcoin/bitcoin, and then the person can actually comment in bitcoin-core/meta, otherwise if they both exist in the same org, how will the banne comment in meta
2492025-04-24T16:18:15 <achow101> glozow: yes. I think moving both is preferable
2502025-04-24T16:18:44 <laanwj> (or maybe except for meta)
2512025-04-24T16:19:26 <laanwj> "libbase58" is also still in bitcoin i don't know what to do with that
2522025-04-24T16:19:42 <sipa> Ignoring history, I think having bitcoin/bips and bitcoin-core/bitcoin makes most sense, in that BIPs are actually aiming to be a whole-Bitcoin-ecosystem wide thing.
2532025-04-24T16:19:44 <achow101> fanquake: tbh I don't think meta is actually for banned people to appeal their ban
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2552025-04-24T16:19:57 <lightlike> I'd prefer to wait a week or so with this (that is, if moving is decided) so people not present right now could say something if they want to.
2562025-04-24T16:19:58 <willcl-ark> What are the advantages of vacating bitcoin/bitcoin? My natural instinct would be to retain that and move bips/ out from bitcoin/?
2572025-04-24T16:20:18 <achow101> laanwj: I think libbase58 and libblkmaker can be archived
2582025-04-24T16:20:28 <cfields> hmm, looking at what would be left in bitcoin/, it'd just be bips/libblkmaker/libbase58. There's been discussion about moving/deprecating the latter 2 for years. So that'd just leave bips in bitcoin/.
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2602025-04-24T16:20:55 <laanwj> achow101: agree
2612025-04-24T16:21:19 <sr_gi[m]> lightlike: +1
2622025-04-24T16:21:24 <achow101> willcl-ark: It also makes organizing the organization easier. right now we have two orgs, with separate member lists. everyone is invited to both, but not everyone accepts the invites
2632025-04-24T16:21:31 <darosior> Leaving bips in bitcoin/ and having Core in bitcoin-core/ does make sense to me, although i haven't thought about drawbacks.
2642025-04-24T16:21:32 <glozow> if you ban someone from bitcoin-core org, aren't they unable to comment on bitcion-core/meta issues?
2652025-04-24T16:21:41 <achow101> glozow: yes
2662025-04-24T16:22:00 <sipa> Would the bitcoin org ownership be handed to the BIPs editors then?
2672025-04-24T16:22:01 <glozow> Oh i see now, you're saying that's a feature not a bug
2682025-04-24T16:22:03 <laanwj> yes the parallel member list was always an annoyance to maintain
2692025-04-24T16:22:06 <achow101> glozow: :)
2702025-04-24T16:22:08 <willcl-ark> achow101: I see, thanks.
2712025-04-24T16:22:29 <achow101> sipa: I guess so? I'd still prefer to also move bips out and we can sunset bitcoin/
2722025-04-24T16:22:33 <laanwj> sipa: no i don't think so, if they want an org they can have bitcoin-bips
2732025-04-24T16:22:43 <darosior> laanwj: +1
2742025-04-24T16:22:44 <fanquake> achow: then shouldn't oversight be changed in the moderation guidelines?
2752025-04-24T16:22:45 <sipa> +1 laanwj, i think that makes sense
2762025-04-24T16:22:55 <fanquake> How is someone meant to open an issue if they can't open an issue
2772025-04-24T16:23:08 <achow101> fanquake: they can also email
2782025-04-24T16:23:12 <cfields> achow101: I don't think we want to leave bitcoin/ in a state where it could be perceived as dormant/up for grabs.
2792025-04-24T16:23:18 <sipa> cfields: agreed
2802025-04-24T16:23:32 <fanquake> wait why are we sunsetting bitcoin/
2812025-04-24T16:23:35 <achow101> cfields: definitely not, it would still be owned by us(?), with a readme that says go somewhere else
2822025-04-24T16:23:47 <fanquake> why wouldn't bips exist there
2832025-04-24T16:23:50 <glozow> Slightly uncomfortable with the idea that the redirects only work if the owners of bitcoin org don't create a new bitcoin repo + giving admin up to bip editors
2842025-04-24T16:23:51 <sr_gi[m]> Why tho?
2852025-04-24T16:23:58 <willcl-ark> glozow: +1
2862025-04-24T16:24:03 <darosior> achow101: wait if you have a README you don't have the redirect anymore?
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2882025-04-24T16:24:11 <sipa> fanquake: i think *our* decision here is whether to move bitcoin/bitcoin to bitcoin-core/bitcoin; the question whether bitcoin/bips moved elsewhere is up to the BIP editors
2892025-04-24T16:24:15 <achow101> darosior: org level readme
2902025-04-24T16:24:18 <achow101> or another repo
2912025-04-24T16:24:19 <laanwj> glozow: right, we should keep admin there to make sure it's not used for anything else
2922025-04-24T16:24:20 <darosior> glozow: +1
2932025-04-24T16:24:46 <fanquake> sipa: then shouldn't we wait for them to have that discussion
2942025-04-24T16:24:53 <fanquake> why are we doing anything
2952025-04-24T16:24:56 <sipa> i think it's an independent decision
2962025-04-24T16:25:06 <fanquake> not really, because we'd have to enact it for them
2972025-04-24T16:25:12 <fanquake> none of them have admin permissions
2982025-04-24T16:25:17 <achow101> moving our repo can be done before they decide what to do with bips though
2992025-04-24T16:25:18 <sipa> yes, that's the point
3002025-04-24T16:25:26 <sipa> they can stay under bitcoin org, where we have ownership
3012025-04-24T16:25:36 <sipa> or decide to move somewhere where they do
3022025-04-24T16:25:37 <achow101> and we can maintain ownership of bitcoin/ in the meanwhile
3032025-04-24T16:25:48 <fanquake> seems odd that this is all happening because of moderation
3042025-04-24T16:25:50 <darosior> I think the current group of owners of the bitcoin org have shown themselves to be trustworthy and i don't think we should take the risk to change it.
3052025-04-24T16:25:52 <laanwj> independently, moving bitcoin's repo to bitcoin-core makes sense, even if just for consistency and to not have to maintain parallel teams/frequent contributor lists
3062025-04-24T16:26:18 <achow101> fanquake: for me, it's not just about moderation, but that's what kickstarted this idea again
3072025-04-24T16:26:20 <darosior> fanquake: yeah agree, maintaining the list is sync, as well as separating Bitcoin vs Bitcoin Core, seem more compelling reason to me.
3082025-04-24T16:26:27 <achow101> i've had this thought for a while
3092025-04-24T16:27:23 <laanwj> moving the repo eventually was the plan for a long time already, i think any reason it was controversial disappeared into the past long ago
3102025-04-24T16:27:28 <willcl-ark> I'm not sure the benefit of having a single list less to sync, seems worth the risks
3112025-04-24T16:27:47 <sipa> i think i'm in favor of moving bitcoin/bitcoin to bitcoin-core/bitcoin, and archiving libbase58/libblkmaker, if the plan is that we retain ownership of bitcoin
3122025-04-24T16:28:17 <achow101> sipa: +1
3132025-04-24T16:28:43 <sipa> mostly for reasons of making real organisation structure match github repository structure
3142025-04-24T16:28:54 <darosior> Can we start bike-shedding the name of the repository in the bitcoin-core org then? :p
3152025-04-24T16:28:59 <achow101> we can wait for another week as lightlike suggests if anyone not present has opinions
3162025-04-24T16:29:15 <laanwj> yes, there isn't suddenly a hurry
3172025-04-24T16:29:25 <achow101> well, not anymore
3182025-04-24T16:29:37 <laanwj> right
3192025-04-24T16:30:08 <achow101> darosior: we can call it bitcoin-core :p
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3212025-04-24T16:30:30 <laanwj> re: archiving libbase58, a "decide future direction of library" issue has been open since 2018 https://github.com/bitcoin/libbase58/issues/6 , no one has been stepping up
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3232025-04-24T16:30:58 <laanwj> yes, the repo could be renamed too, i dont' think that will affect the redirect
3242025-04-24T16:31:11 <willcl-ark> I feel like org member lists could be relatively trivially synced using a fine-grained token of some type (not checked this though)
3252025-04-24T16:31:31 <laanwj> yes, they could be synced, but why?
3262025-04-24T16:31:40 <achow101> willcl-ark: it's more about the fact that there are 2 invites, and not everyone remembers to accept both
3272025-04-24T16:31:45 <darosior> willcl-ark: are you ~0 on moving the repo?
3282025-04-24T16:32:24 <achow101> we've had this come up a couple of times already where people accepted the invite to one org but not the other, and then we have to spend some time figuring out which org they didn't accept to and reinvite them just so we can request a reviewer
3292025-04-24T16:33:06 <TheCharlatan> that doesn't seem too anoying tbh
3302025-04-24T16:33:13 <glozow> why are people people
3312025-04-24T16:33:13 <achow101> TheCharlatan: you aren't the one dealing with it
3322025-04-24T16:33:13 <sipa> i feel that the difficulty of this synchronization is only a minor side-effect of a bad structure
3332025-04-24T16:33:18 <vasild> another possibility is to keep bitcoin/bitcoin as it is and move bitcoin-core/* into bitcoin/; move bitcoin/bips into another org
3342025-04-24T16:33:25 <laanwj> so is there any strong reason to not move the repo?
3352025-04-24T16:33:27 <darosior> This strikes me as a triviality and a bit of a weak motivation to move the repo. I find making the difference between Core and Bitcoin is more compelling a reason.
3362025-04-24T16:33:33 <sipa> darosior: _1
3372025-04-24T16:33:34 <sipa> +1
3382025-04-24T16:33:56 <achow101> vasild: I don't think we should do that, and I think it's better to separate Bitcoin Core from Bitcoin
3392025-04-24T16:33:57 <willcl-ark> achow101: I think I'm just not fully understanding the rationale or benefits here, and feel like there could be other potential risks
3402025-04-24T16:34:11 <laanwj> why does it make sense to keep it separate from the rest
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3422025-04-24T16:34:23 <achow101> willcl-ark: could you give some examples of risks that you think there could be?
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3442025-04-24T16:35:40 <sipa> willcl-ark: i think the fact that it's not possible to ban someone from the Bitcoin Core org without also banning them from the BIPs org (whatever those orgs are) is a good motivation. It's not the reason on itself, but it demonstrates there is a mismatch in organisational structure. There is absolutely no reason why people maintaining a piece of software should have the ability to ban someone from
3452025-04-24T16:35:46 <sipa> a standards organisation, or the other way around.
3462025-04-24T16:36:21 <glozow> sipa: I think the cleaner solution to that is to have bips move though. Because assuming we're retaining ownership of the bitcoin org, we're still the ones pressing the ban button for bips
3472025-04-24T16:36:46 <darosior> good point
3482025-04-24T16:36:47 <vasild> glozow: +1
3492025-04-24T16:37:16 <sipa> glozow: yeah, fair point
3502025-04-24T16:37:28 <achow101> glozow: we can give ownership to the bip editors too, and make bitcoin/ jointly owned
3512025-04-24T16:37:29 <cfields> glozow: so then what's left in bitcoin/ ?
3522025-04-24T16:37:33 <achow101> but I also prefer both move out
3532025-04-24T16:37:45 <sipa> i think the ideal solution is that both move, and bitcoin remains vestigial
3542025-04-24T16:37:52 <achow101> sipa: +1
3552025-04-24T16:37:56 <sipa> (and not up for grabs)
3562025-04-24T16:37:56 <glozow> cfields: I think it's fine if nothing remains
3572025-04-24T16:38:07 <laanwj> we need to keep sole ownership of bitcoin to make sure no one else creates a repo named bitcoin
3582025-04-24T16:38:17 <cfields> mmm, I don't love the idea of _just_ squatting on it.
3592025-04-24T16:38:23 <fjahr> There isn't a straightforward way to claim an unused org/username from github afaik
3602025-04-24T16:38:24 <darosior> achow101: i don't think this is a good idea for you all to give/share ownership of bitcoin/
3612025-04-24T16:38:34 <fanquake> fjahr: you just email GH
3622025-04-24T16:38:42 <fanquake> they'll git it up if it's unused
3632025-04-24T16:38:47 <sipa> ha, "git"
3642025-04-24T16:39:12 <achow101> we can put an readme in the org profile that says something to the effect of keeping the organization to preserve redirects for the moved repos
3652025-04-24T16:39:12 <cfields> right, because of ^^
3662025-04-24T16:39:13 <laanwj> they won't give it up easily even if it's unused, i couldn't get bitcoincore back then
3672025-04-24T16:39:36 <fjahr> fanquake: I looked into this and for something unrelated and nobody seemed have success with that in forums
3682025-04-24T16:39:43 <fanquake> I have done it before
3692025-04-24T16:40:06 <achow101> presumably it's also much harder if there are owners of the org that are active elsewhere
3702025-04-24T16:40:15 <fanquake> Although this was 7-8 years ago
3712025-04-24T16:40:31 <darosior> Our project is so high profile and such a scammer magnet that i'm not sure i'd want to risk it
3722025-04-24T16:40:59 <sr_gi[m]> I still don't see what is the motivation for leaving bitcoin empty
3732025-04-24T16:41:12 <fjahr> faking activity is also easy but not sure worth the effort and better than moving bips
3742025-04-24T16:41:17 <achow101> sr_gi[m]: why should it be non-empty?
3752025-04-24T16:41:18 <sipa> sr_gi[m]: as opposed to what?
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3772025-04-24T16:41:36 <sr_gi[m]> As opposed to keeping either bitcoin or bips on it
3782025-04-24T16:41:54 <sr_gi[m]> I see the motivation for separating both, but not why both need to go out
3792025-04-24T16:41:59 <darosior> sr_gi[m]: some of us are not comfortable with the current owners giving ownership away
3802025-04-24T16:42:24 <sipa> sr_gi[m]: who gets ownership after separation? either side would need to trust the other one not to break redirects
3812025-04-24T16:42:24 <darosior> (if keeping bips repo)
3822025-04-24T16:42:44 <lightlike> darosior: agree, especially after the experiences with the transifex coup last year
3832025-04-24T16:42:45 <sipa> not that i have any reason to distrust the current bips editors with that, to be clear
3842025-04-24T16:42:52 <sipa> but things change
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3862025-04-24T16:43:05 <achow101> but the editors may change in the future, even to people who forget that the redirects exist
3872025-04-24T16:43:13 <glozow> What if github stops doing redirects or kicks us for squatting? Not to be a doomer but what if some random money-stealing or just poorly maintained client takes over bitcoin/bitcoin? bitcoin.org not keeping up with software updates already causes people on the network to run unmaintained software.
3882025-04-24T16:43:13 <achow101> (should bitcoin exist that long)
3892025-04-24T16:43:53 <vasild> so the only solution seems to be to move bitcoin/bips to another org and leave the rest as it is?
3902025-04-24T16:44:16 <achow101> they seem to have maintained redirects for a very long time now, don't see why they would stop doing that
3912025-04-24T16:44:31 <glozow> sometimes sites that have been around for a long time try to release old unused usernames
3922025-04-24T16:45:08 <laanwj> i mean the hope is that people will update their links, too, so the redirect will become less important over time
3932025-04-24T16:45:09 <achow101> i mean, Murch[m] tried to get the username murch from an inactive profile and was absolutely unable to
3942025-04-24T16:45:17 <dzxzg> who controls https://github.com/bitcoincore
3952025-04-24T16:45:40 <laanwj> dzxzg: https://github.com/aimeedonahue does
3962025-04-24T16:45:42 <achow101> dzxzg: probably the one person in https://github.com/orgs/BitcoinCore/people
3972025-04-24T16:45:49 <darosior> dzxzg: also this seems orthogonal
3982025-04-24T16:45:53 <sipa> glozow: i hear you - but it also just feels inappropriate that Bitcoin Core ended with the bitcoin/ org name, for historical reasons
3992025-04-24T16:46:06 <darosior> glozow: i think this is again a good point to bring up bitcoin.org
4002025-04-24T16:46:22 <sipa> we like the project to be easy to find, and be prominent, but it isn't Bitcoin
4012025-04-24T16:46:31 <laanwj> and no they don't want to give it away, nor does github want to release the org, though i haven't tried for a long time
4022025-04-24T16:46:41 <achow101> did you know about the https://github.com/bitcoin/Bitcoin.org redirect? that was moved a while ago too
4032025-04-24T16:47:14 <darosior> It seems like in theory it would be nice to move but in practice it would result in unnecessary risk?
4042025-04-24T16:47:29 <achow101> I think the risk is minimal
4052025-04-24T16:47:38 <laanwj> i think so too
4062025-04-24T16:47:45 <sr_gi[m]> I personally think that the risk of github breaking redirects is higher than someone in the bitcoin org creating a bips repo, and what the implications may be
4072025-04-24T16:48:12 <achow101> I think there's a higher risk of an org owner accidentally breaking the redirect than github breaking it
4082025-04-24T16:48:29 <darosior> Alright, maybe we can mull it over for some time and continue discussions in a Github issue?
4092025-04-24T16:48:46 <achow101> I'll put it as a topic again for next week
4102025-04-24T16:49:08 <laanwj> same, github really isn't known for breaking redirects even long-running ones, and they don't tend to give away even inactive cryptocurrency orgs to scammers
4112025-04-24T16:49:24 <achow101> Any other topics to discuss?
4122025-04-24T16:49:35 <dzxzg> I'm not asking whether they'll give it up, just wondering if it's an issue that there's an aural collision with this other org "bitcoincore/bitcoin" (but I'm overall +1 on moving to bitcoin-core)
4132025-04-24T16:50:16 <laanwj> "bitcoincore" has been inactive since 2014 at least it's owned by a github staffer, it's not relevant here
4142025-04-24T16:50:35 <dzxzg> I see, sorry
4152025-04-24T16:50:38 <glozow> yeah I definitely don't think Bitcoin and Bitcoin Core are the same thing. Really no single piece of software could be == Bitcoin. But most users don't know that, they will search for something called 'bitcoin,' run it, and manage their money with it...
4162025-04-24T16:51:38 <sipa> glozow: i think that's much more applicable to bitcoin.org vs bitcoincore.org than github.com/bitcoin vs github.com/bitcoin-core, but yeah
4172025-04-24T16:52:26 <laanwj> dzxzg: oh i see your point now, yes it's less of an issue if we rename the repo to bitcoin-core too
4182025-04-24T16:53:09 <achow101> also, if redirects do break, github support has re-established them in the past. I accidentally did this once with hwi.
4192025-04-24T16:53:36 <Murch[m]> <achow101> "i mean, Murch tried to get the..." <- And Iâm not even sure if it was a prior GitHub account I created myself that I just donât retain the email address to. ;)
4202025-04-24T16:54:05 <laanwj> heh
4212025-04-24T16:54:11 <achow101> #endmeeting
4222025-04-24T16:54:12 <corebot> achow101: Meeting ended at 2025-04-24T16:54+0000
4232025-04-24T16:54:12 <darosior> Murch[m]: deleted-key covenant, but with a password
4242025-04-24T16:54:13 <corebot> achow101: Raw log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-04-24_16_00.log.json
4252025-04-24T16:54:14 <corebot> achow101: Formatted log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-04-24_16_00.log.html
4262025-04-24T16:54:15 <corebot> achow101: Minutes: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-04-24_16_00.html
4272025-04-24T16:54:30 <Murch[m]> +1 on letting this simmer a bit
4282025-04-24T16:54:38 <achow101> I'm going to archive libbase58 and libblkmaker now as well. they're quite unmaintained at this point
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4302025-04-24T16:55:05 <laanwj> ACK on that at least
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4322025-04-24T16:55:13 <glozow> achow101: ACK
4332025-04-24T16:55:20 <fjahr> still using travis :D
4342025-04-24T16:59:00 <darosior> achow101: ACK
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4382025-04-24T17:08:35 <achow101> #proposedmeetingtopic moving the repo to bitcoin-core
4392025-04-24T17:11:42 <achow101> opened #32340 to continue discussion there
4402025-04-24T17:11:44 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32340 | Moving this repo to bitcoin-core · Issue #32340 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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4452025-04-24T17:33:43 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoincore.org] laanwj opened pull request #1126: Change ARM default download to 64-bit (master...2025-04-arm64-default) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/1126
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4472025-04-24T17:35:57 <Murch[m]> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/29124 might be RFM
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4502025-04-24T17:46:13 <kanzure> i would like to see a writeup comparing the different github arrangements so we can compare plans by name
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4532025-04-24T18:00:35 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] tomasandroil opened pull request #32342: Fix missing error check in `set_clo_on_exec` for FD_CLOEXEC handling (master...fix/update) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32342
4542025-04-24T18:05:37 <achow101> kanzure: https://gist.github.com/achow101/e20dcc0818e2b346e699438b70ee8b8c
4552025-04-24T18:06:00 <achow101> I prefer both move
4562025-04-24T18:16:13 <kanzure> this doc does not address redirect risk, absent redirect risk i am not sure there is a real problem
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4612025-04-24T18:27:53 <achow101> kanzure: redirect risk in what way? redirects are addressed
4622025-04-24T18:29:41 <achow101> i added a bullet for the takeover risk that was discussed
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4642025-04-24T19:01:49 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj opened pull request #32343: common: Close non-std fds before exec in RunCommandJSON (master...2025-04-closefds) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32343
4652025-04-24T19:02:24 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] laanwj closed pull request #30756: run_command: Close non-std fds when execing slave processes (master...subproc_closefds) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/30756
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4742025-04-24T19:22:48 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Eunovo opened pull request #32344: Bug/Wallet: Non-Ranged Descriptors with Range [0,0] Trigger Unexpected Wallet Errors in AddWalletDescriptor (master...bug-fix-wallet-add-non-ranged-descriptors) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32344
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4822025-04-24T20:58:27 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #32345: ipc: Handle unclean shutdowns better (master...pr/ipc-stop) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32345
4832025-04-24T21:02:16 <bitcoin-git> [gui-qml] D33r-Gee closed pull request #421: UI Only AU Snapshot Loading Flow (main...qml-au-display) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/pull/421
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4892025-04-24T21:52:09 <achow101> interface_usdt_coinselection.py is failing CI because it outputs stuff to stderr, is this currently expected?
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4912025-04-24T21:53:07 <achow101> ah #32336, so maybe I should rebase again
4922025-04-24T21:53:09 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32336 | test: Suppress upstream `-Wduplicate-decl-specifier` in bpfcc by maflcko · Pull Request #32336 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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4942025-04-24T22:10:14 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/458720e5e98c...4eee328a9820
4952025-04-24T22:10:14 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 3dbd50a VolodymyrBg: Fix failing util_time_GetTime test on Windows
4962025-04-24T22:10:14 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4eee328 Ava Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#32318: Fix failing util_time_GetTime test on Windows
4972025-04-24T22:10:18 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #32318: Fix failing util_time_GetTime test on Windows (master...bgg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32318
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