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1532025-08-14T16:00:21 <achow101> #startmeeting
1542025-08-14T16:00:21 <corebot> achow101: Meeting started at 2025-08-14T16:00+0000
1552025-08-14T16:00:22 <corebot> achow101: Current chairs: achow101
1562025-08-14T16:00:23 <corebot> achow101: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
1572025-08-14T16:00:24 <corebot> achow101: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
1582025-08-14T16:00:25 <corebot> achow101: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'
1592025-08-14T16:00:34 <darosior> hi
1602025-08-14T16:00:36 <fjahr> hi
1612025-08-14T16:00:42 <sipa> hi
1622025-08-14T16:00:43 <achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: abubakarsadiq achow101 _aj_ ajonas b10c brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto hodlinator instagibbs jarolrod jonatack josibake kanzure laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr maflcko marcofleon maxedw Murch pinheadmz provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa sr_gi tdb3 theStack TheCharlatan vasild willcl-ark
1632025-08-14T16:00:46 <instagibbs> hi
1642025-08-14T16:00:52 <furszy> hi
1652025-08-14T16:00:53 <purpleKarrot> #here
1662025-08-14T16:00:55 <maxedw> hi
1672025-08-14T16:00:57 <TheCharlatan> hi
1682025-08-14T16:00:57 <purpleKarrot> hi
1692025-08-14T16:00:58 <johnny9dev> hi
1702025-08-14T16:01:09 <achow101> There are no pre-proposed meeting topics this week. Any last minute ones to add?
1712025-08-14T16:01:17 <dzxzg> hi
1722025-08-14T16:01:19 <sr_gi[m]1> hi
1732025-08-14T16:01:21 <lightlike> hi
1742025-08-14T16:01:58 <achow101> #topic Erlay WG Update (sr_gi, gleb)
1752025-08-14T16:02:04 <brunoerg> hi
1762025-08-14T16:02:07 <stickies-v> hi
1772025-08-14T16:02:09 <l0rinc> hi
1782025-08-14T16:02:45 <laanwj> hi
1792025-08-14T16:03:07 <eugenesiegel> hi
1802025-08-14T16:03:13 <cfields> hi
1812025-08-14T16:03:24 <sr_gi[m]1> I've been cleaning up and redesigning some parts of the full Erlay implementation so it's easier to follow, using txdownloadman as reference. I've also been adding all the missing unit tests and expanding part of the functional
1822025-08-14T16:03:51 <sr_gi[m]1> Review keeps being needed on the initial PR
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1842025-08-14T16:04:33 <sr_gi[m]1> Nothing more to add on my end
1852025-08-14T16:04:49 <achow101> #topic Kernel WG Update (TheCharlatan)
1862025-08-14T16:04:57 <TheCharlatan> Steady progress on the API side, lots of discussions happening there, but seems like we are slowly coalescing on a common approach.
1872025-08-14T16:05:03 <TheCharlatan> Hunting for ACKs in #33078 - should be close to merge now
1882025-08-14T16:05:05 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/33078 | kernel: improve BlockChecked ownership semantics by stickies-v · Pull Request #33078 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1892025-08-14T16:05:10 <TheCharlatan> ^ it simplifies some of our API code a little bit.
1902025-08-14T16:05:17 <TheCharlatan> Also had a steady stream of new contributors over the past few weeks, both looking to help flesh out the API, and write some new applications.
1912025-08-14T16:05:36 <sipa>
1922025-08-14T16:06:13 <TheCharlatan> that's all :)
1932025-08-14T16:06:34 <kevkevin> hi
1942025-08-14T16:06:48 <achow101> #topic Benchmarking WG Update (josie, l0rinc)
1952025-08-14T16:06:54 <l0rinc> Since we have added a warning for large dbcache flushes in previous release in #31534, it would be good if we could add a related optimization for speeding up the slow flushes, see #31645.
1962025-08-14T16:06:59 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31534 | coins: warn on shutdown for big UTXO set flushes by l0rinc · Pull Request #31534 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1972025-08-14T16:07:03 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31645 | [IBD] flush UTXO set in batches proportional to `dbcache` size by l0rinc · Pull Request #31645 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1982025-08-14T16:07:09 <l0rinc> The change is only adjusting the already-configurable defaults, but has a measurable effect on a critical part of IBD performance.
1992025-08-14T16:07:16 <l0rinc> Could we include it in v30?
2002025-08-14T16:08:01 <achow101> we have less than a week to feature freeze and there's already a bunch of stuff in the milestone
2012025-08-14T16:08:06 <achow101> how easy is it to review?
2022025-08-14T16:08:33 <l0rinc> reveiw is trivial, basically just a value change, but reproducing it would take a few hours in the background
2032025-08-14T16:09:39 <achow101> is there any urgency for it to be in 30?
2042025-08-14T16:09:59 <l0rinc> no, just a preference since this release already contains 6 other IBD related optimizations
2052025-08-14T16:10:38 <achow101> i don't think it should go into the milestone, but if it gets enough review before feature freeze, it can still go in
2062025-08-14T16:10:39 <l0rinc> and slow flushing is a common complaint, users think the app is frozen
2072025-08-14T16:10:46 <l0rinc> k, thanks
2082025-08-14T16:11:36 <l0rinc> that's it from me
2092025-08-14T16:11:54 <achow101> #topic Cluster Mempool WG Update (sdaftuar, sipa)
2102025-08-14T16:12:56 <sipa> opened what i think is the last txgraph pr for now
2112025-08-14T16:13:20 <sipa> then time to review cluster mempool PR itselr
2122025-08-14T16:14:08 <sipa> nothing for 30.0 for sure
2132025-08-14T16:14:13 <sipa> that's it
2142025-08-14T16:14:51 <achow101> #topic MuSig2 WG Update (achow101)
2152025-08-14T16:15:18 <achow101> No updates this week, please review #29675
2162025-08-14T16:15:21 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29675 | wallet: Be able to receive and spend inputs involving MuSig2 aggregate keys by achow101 · Pull Request #29675 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2172025-08-14T16:15:40 <achow101> #topic QML GUI WG Update (jarolrod, johnny9dev)
2182025-08-14T16:15:54 <johnny9dev> was away on family vacation for the last week so getting caught up again. before I left there were a few PRs added for getting the new branch up to the feature set that I have in my personal fork.
2192025-08-14T16:16:18 <johnny9dev> short term, the focus is just to catch up the send and payment request features
2202025-08-14T16:16:52 <johnny9dev> another contributor, deer-gee is looking to upstream some events so he can complete his assumeutxo interface as well so that will likely start soon
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2222025-08-14T16:17:13 <johnny9dev> thats all for now
2232025-08-14T16:17:28 <achow101> #topic Script Validation WG Update (fjahr)
2242025-08-14T16:17:39 <fjahr> There was some further development on the batch validation secp PR (review still welcome) but it still lacks pippenger support, I will probably wait a bit with rebasing the core PR until thatâs the case. Thatâs it from me.
2252025-08-14T16:18:07 <achow101> #topic 30.0 feature freeze
2262025-08-14T16:18:14 <achow101> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/milestone/72
2272025-08-14T16:18:22 <achow101> Anything to add or remove from the mileston?
2282025-08-14T16:18:37 <achow101> And please review things in the milestone. Feature freeze is in 6 days
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2302025-08-14T16:20:20 <achow101> Anything else to discuss this week?
2312025-08-14T16:20:24 <l0rinc> I have a different question about dbcache: given that we don't have fine-grained cache invalidation (we clear the cache, when full), has anyone investigated if we could reseed it with the past ~10 blocks after clearing?
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2332025-08-14T16:21:24 <willcl-ark> hi
2342025-08-14T16:21:26 <sipa> we don't always wipe completely anymore all the timr
2352025-08-14T16:21:49 <sipa> it's worth experimenting with, i think
2362025-08-14T16:21:53 <sipa> also at startup
2372025-08-14T16:22:13 <l0rinc> yes, we already read 6 blocks for validation at the beginning, we could use those to seed the cache
2382025-08-14T16:22:21 <l0rinc> thank you
2392025-08-14T16:23:18 <cfields> I think Sjors[m]1 had a topic to discuss?
2402025-08-14T16:23:49 <achow101> I don't see it?
2412025-08-14T16:23:58 <Sjors[m]1> On mobile, so can't contribute much.
2422025-08-14T16:24:11 <Sjors[m]1> Basically the request to add to milestone above
2432025-08-14T16:24:12 <cfields> Ah, he just threw it out, not specifically for this meeting:
2442025-08-14T16:24:13 <cfields> <Sjors[m]1> I'd like to propose #31802 for the v30 milestone, if only to discuss if it needs to be punted to the next release again.
2452025-08-14T16:24:17 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31802 | Add bitcoin-{node,gui} to release binaries for IPC by Sjors · Pull Request #31802 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2462025-08-14T16:25:04 <Sjors[m]1> I'd like to propose #31802 for the v30 milestone, if only to discuss if it needs to be punted to the next release again.
2472025-08-14T16:25:06 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31802 | Add bitcoin-{node,gui} to release binaries for IPC by Sjors · Pull Request #31802 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2482025-08-14T16:25:22 <sipa> my very 10000-mile view: i think it'd be nice if we had IPC enabled in from-source builds by default for a while before we add it to releases
2492025-08-14T16:25:54 <achow101> does it need to be in this release?
2502025-08-14T16:26:06 <Sjors[m]1> Although that makes sense the only people who currently want to test this prefer binaries over source builds.
2512025-08-14T16:26:21 <sipa> Sjors[m]1: that's a good point
2522025-08-14T16:26:31 <achow101> I agree with sipa
2532025-08-14T16:26:59 <Sjors[m]1> And if I have to keep shipping a custom build anyway then I probably won't use the IPC variant because it's extra complexity.
2542025-08-14T16:27:15 <Sjors[m]1> Compared to just integrating sv2 directly.
2552025-08-14T16:27:32 <Sjors[m]1> So not sure how much we'll learn from waiting another six months.
2562025-08-14T16:27:59 <sipa> Sjors[m]1: that seems like a false dichotomy; over time, i do expect we'll add it to release binaries
2572025-08-14T16:28:10 <Sjors[m]1> Though maybe I'll ship a v30.0 + IPC patch binary myself.
2582025-08-14T16:29:02 <stickies-v> "The initial main use case for IPC is to enable experimental support for the Mining IPC interface." this doesn't seem like a very strong reason to ship ipc binaries imo, i don't think we should rush it in
2592025-08-14T16:29:14 <darosior> pinged Russ, fwiw
2602025-08-14T16:29:41 <Sjors[m]1> Compared to six months ago it does seem much likely that eventually this will make it in, meaning that me maintaining an IPC binary won't be a dead end.
2612025-08-14T16:29:54 <sipa> i also agree with thr view that we'll likely not learn that much if the use case is primarily people who want binatoes
2622025-08-14T16:29:57 <sipa> *binaries
2632025-08-14T16:30:20 <sipa> so, not opposed, but it feels rather unusual compared to how usually do thong
2642025-08-14T16:30:23 <sipa> things
2652025-08-14T16:30:41 <fanquake> Not sure I understand why it's extra complexity to ship the IPC binaries When it's either guix build 1 branch, or the other, to produce bins?
2662025-08-14T16:30:47 <ryanofsky> Trying to catch up. I've open #31756 months ago to ask for feedback on this but haven't gotten much
2672025-08-14T16:30:49 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31756 | RFC: Adding bitcoin-{node,gui} binaries for IPC in 30.0 release · Issue #31756 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2682025-08-14T16:31:24 <ryanofsky> Would appreciate if people weigh in with any concerns there
2692025-08-14T16:32:17 <Sjors[m]1> fanquake: having to explain people to use / trust my binaries adds friction.
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2712025-08-14T16:32:43 <Sjors[m]1> Once they overcome that friction, I might as well ship a modified bitcoind that has the whole Template Provider built in.
2722025-08-14T16:32:45 <fanquake> Can you elaborate on who these people are? Any reason they aren't showing up on GH to champion / review any of the related PRs etc
2732025-08-14T16:32:50 <Sjors[m]1> So they don't have to bother with IPC.
2742025-08-14T16:32:57 <fanquake> Or show up to the meeting to advocate for it's inclusion into Core
2752025-08-14T16:33:11 <Sjors[m]1> Do they have to send an open letter? :-)
2762025-08-14T16:33:23 <ryanofsky> Sjors[m]1, I'd be nice if they commented on 31756
2772025-08-14T16:33:25 <Sjors[m]1> https://github.com/Sjors/bitcoin/issues/98
2782025-08-14T16:33:31 <sipa> Sjors[m]1: haha
2792025-08-14T16:33:31 <Sjors[m]1> ^ they report bugs directly to me mostly
2802025-08-14T16:33:52 <Sjors[m]1> SRI folks are generally not familiar with our codebase.
2812025-08-14T16:34:22 <Sjors[m]1> Pavlnex left a thumbs up on 31802
2822025-08-14T16:34:35 <sipa> #31802
2832025-08-14T16:34:38 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31802 | Add bitcoin-{node,gui} to release binaries for IPC by Sjors · Pull Request #31802 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
2842025-08-14T16:34:41 <sipa> ah
2852025-08-14T16:34:59 <fanquake> I think my point is more that you clearly already have a relationship with your existing users
2862025-08-14T16:35:26 <fanquake> So it seems like you building the bins doesn't actually add much friction, if they are already trusting your software to begin with
2872025-08-14T16:35:44 <Sjors[m]1> I don't know how far that trust goes though.
2882025-08-14T16:35:52 <Sjors[m]1> For testing, sure.
2892025-08-14T16:35:58 <sipa> Sjors[m]1: agree
2902025-08-14T16:35:59 <Sjors[m]1> Mainnet pools? Maybe.
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2922025-08-14T16:36:16 <Sjors[m]1> Not a position I want to be in once a large amount of money is involved.
2932025-08-14T16:36:45 <sipa> let's try reviewing/commenting on the PR/issue
2942025-08-14T16:36:56 <achow101> can they comment in the pr/issue advocating for it then?
2952025-08-14T16:37:21 <Sjors[m]1> achow101: sure, I'll make a call out...
2962025-08-14T16:37:30 <achow101> Any other topics to discuss?
2972025-08-14T16:37:31 <Sjors[m]1> Maybe they're being a bit too polite and quiet.
2982025-08-14T16:38:31 <ryanofsky> I'd also like to hear concretely about what the fears/downsides of releasing this feature are
2992025-08-14T16:39:00 <sipa> i don't think there are downsides to doing so, once it's reviewed enough
3002025-08-14T16:39:03 <TheCharlatan> i've been slow on the ipc review recently, the crash bugs we ran into have made me a bit hesitant over the past few months.
3012025-08-14T16:39:20 <ryanofsky> Crash bugs?
3022025-08-14T16:40:02 <darosior> I started to write a fuzz target for those and got diverted into working on other things.
3032025-08-14T16:41:00 <darosior> Given that i go on vacation in about 2 hours i won't make more progress on that nor review of the PR being discussed, so won't opine.
3042025-08-14T16:41:01 <TheCharlatan> ryanofsky, i.e. https://github.com/bitcoin-core/libmultiprocess/issues/182
3052025-08-14T16:43:38 <ryanofsky> IPC code wasn't originally written to handle external clients that disconnected uncleanly but this should be fixed in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32345
3062025-08-14T16:44:33 <ryanofsky> Misbehaving IPC clients in general can crash the node, IPC is a trusted interface
3072025-08-14T16:45:11 <sipa> right
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3092025-08-14T16:46:26 <achow101> I think we can further discussion in the pr/issue
3102025-08-14T16:46:29 <achow101> Any other topics?
3112025-08-14T16:48:25 <achow101> #endmeeting
3122025-08-14T16:48:25 <corebot> achow101: Meeting ended at 2025-08-14T16:48+0000
3132025-08-14T16:48:26 <corebot> achow101: Raw log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-08-14_16_00.log.json
3142025-08-14T16:48:27 <corebot> achow101: Formatted log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-08-14_16_00.log.html
3152025-08-14T16:48:28 <corebot> achow101: Minutes: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-08-14_16_00.html
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3282025-08-14T17:45:40 <darosior> Re #33183 actually i'm not sure which way to go.. It's technically a gratuitous RPC breaking change? But if we say so then we need to revert the renaming that already happened in #33050...
3292025-08-14T17:45:41 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/33183 | validation: rename block script verification error from "mandatory" to "block" by darosior · Pull Request #33183 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3302025-08-14T17:45:43 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/33050 | net, validation: don't punish peers for consensus-invalid txs by ajtowns · Pull Request #33050 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3322025-08-14T17:48:11 <darosior> Or we say there is no stability guarantees for strings in RPCs? That's really annoying that we don't give any clear guarantees regarding our RPC interface, downstream users are left guessing what they can rely on, and we just guess what we can break
3332025-08-14T17:49:07 <sipa> in which RPCs does it get exposed?
3342025-08-14T17:49:19 <darosior> In errors when submitting a transaction
3352025-08-14T17:49:34 <darosior> And i suppose in errors when submitting a block?
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3382025-08-14T17:50:54 <darosior> I guess i'll push the release note to 33183 already. If we are to break the interface, it might as well at least be consistent
3392025-08-14T17:52:18 <sipa> yeah
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3412025-08-14T17:54:11 <eugenesiegel> release note is helpful, the change will break lnd's string parsing
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3472025-08-14T18:05:57 <darosior> Ugh, good to know. I'm leaning toward avoiding an unnecessary break.
3482025-08-14T18:06:40 <darosior> Oh wait, no.
3492025-08-14T18:06:53 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/9b1a7c3e8dd7...e17b5da0d6d1
3502025-08-14T18:06:54 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 67e186d Sjors Provoost: doc: update wallet build instruction
3512025-08-14T18:06:54 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master e17b5da Ava Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#33179: doc: update wallet build instruction
3522025-08-14T18:06:55 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #33179: doc: update wallet build instruction (master...2025/08/wallet) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33179
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3542025-08-14T18:07:48 <darosior> Actually the reason for the break is that #33050 dropped the detection, so without renaming it could have returned "non-mandatory" for consensus checks which would be a silent break. At least renaming makes it an explicit break.
3552025-08-14T18:07:50 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/33050 | net, validation: don't punish peers for consensus-invalid txs by ajtowns · Pull Request #33050 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3562025-08-14T18:12:42 <eugenesiegel> I think I misunderstood, 33050 breaks lnd if it somehow submits a non-standard transaction, 33183 does not
3572025-08-14T18:13:01 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #33189: rpc: followups for 33106 (master...2025-08-minrelay) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33189
3582025-08-14T18:14:48 <sipa> #33050 #33183
3592025-08-14T18:14:50 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/33050 | net, validation: don't punish peers for consensus-invalid txs by ajtowns · Pull Request #33050 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
3602025-08-14T18:14:51 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/33183 | validation: rename block script verification error from "mandatory" to "block" by darosior · Pull Request #33183 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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3642025-08-14T18:30:57 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 3 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/e17b5da0d6d1...8405fdb06e8f
3652025-08-14T18:30:58 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 110a0f4 pablomartin4btc: interfaces, chain, refactor: Remove unused getTipLocator
3662025-08-14T18:30:58 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 2b00030 pablomartin4btc: interfaces, chain, refactor: Remove inaccurate getActiveChainLocator
3672025-08-14T18:30:58 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8405fdb Ava Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#33169: interfaces, chain, refactor: Remove unused ge...
3682025-08-14T18:30:59 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #33169: interfaces, chain, refactor: Remove unused getTipLocator and incaccurate getActiveChainLocator (master...interfaces-chain-refactor-remove-getTipLocator-and-getActiveChainLocator) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33169
3692025-08-14T18:37:09 <sipa> eugenesiegel: for 33050 it's probably inevitable, because there is less validation actually done that could distinguish between formerly-observably-distinct cases?
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3712025-08-14T18:49:05 <eugenesiegel> sipa: I'm confused, is it because if the error string "non-mandatory-script-verify-flag" were kept, it would mask some consensus failures especially to downstream users? And that introducing a new error string is more correct?
3722025-08-14T18:49:20 <eugenesiegel> fwiw, I don't have an issue with the change
3732025-08-14T18:57:51 <sipa> eugenesiegel: i'm possibly confused myself, nevermind
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4842025-08-14T20:35:04 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ryanofsky opened pull request #33190: build: Enable ENABLE_IPC option by default (master...pr/ipc-default) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33190
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5052025-08-14T21:30:33 <gmaxwell> glozow: So whats with setting the mining fee to 1s/vkb? In the interest of timelyness I'll be tested acking the PR shortly, regardless, but I think setting that below the relay fee is a mistake. At least in my thinking the ideal way to roll out changes to minfeerate is to first decrease relay feerates then once the network has widely absorbed that change, lower mining feerates--... and if
5062025-08-14T21:30:39 <gmaxwell> increasing go the other way, increase mining feerates then once few blocks include increase relay feerates. Is the assumption now just that too many miners are objectively hostile to the functioning of the network that there is no hope of doing a staged deployment anymore?
5072025-08-14T21:39:04 <gmaxwell> W/ the mining feerate essentially mooted it means that any future update that lowers relay feelrates will immediately result in mining txn that have very poor propagation, which would be against the interests of the network. Even right now, say there are miners that have mining set to 1000 or 100 but have relay set to a non-default setting of under 100 will immediately start mining at that
5082025-08-14T21:39:10 <gmaxwell> level, which won't relay well even with the PR deployed.
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5102025-08-14T21:40:20 <gmaxwell> and while there are good arguments that 100 is plenty for anti-DOS so it's an easy decision to match whats being mined... if this PR did result in 1s/vkb being mined that would be a much more difficult question.
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5122025-08-14T21:44:57 <gmaxwell> But happy to hear if I'm just missing another perspective.
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5232025-08-14T21:59:17 <_aj_> gmaxwell: the thought from two years ago when we were looking at #26933 and #27018 was that we don't want things sitting in our mempool that we'll never consider for mining (eg, they might block us from accepting some tx we would mine due to rbf shenanigans). if miners are setting relay/incremental to sub-100, then already seems likely they'll also set blockminfee to a similar value
5242025-08-14T21:59:20 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/26933 | mempool: disallow txns under min relay fee, even in packages by glozow · Pull Request #26933 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5252025-08-14T21:59:22 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27018 | mempool / miner: regularly flush <=0-fee entries and mine everything in the mempool by glozow · Pull Request #27018 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5262025-08-14T22:01:26 <gmaxwell> _aj_: sure not on an ongoing basis, but as some transitional thing I think harmless. There isn't a particular cost in stuff sitting in mempools and not getting mined. In practice what has happened in the past with prior transitions is that a few parties moved earlier, and clearted them out.
5272025-08-14T22:01:54 <gmaxwell> _aj_: I think the alternative is to make infrastructure for defaults that chage on flag heights.
5282025-08-14T22:02:07 <gmaxwell> change*
5292025-08-14T22:02:19 <_aj_> yeah, flag heights/mediantimes would be my preference
5302025-08-14T22:03:08 <gmaxwell> Basically, I agree relay policy and mining policy should match-- but when policy change paradoxically making your local relay and mining policy *not* match can make the two match better network wide.
5312025-08-14T22:03:31 <gmaxwell> but yeah I suppose a flag point would be just superior across the board.
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5382025-08-14T22:15:44 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 12 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8405fdb06e8f...578b512bdd88
5392025-08-14T22:15:44 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 616bc22 Eugene Siegel: test: remove noexcept(false) comment in ~DebugLogHelper
5402025-08-14T22:15:45 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b8e92fb Eugene Siegel: log: avoid double hashing in SourceLocationHasher
5412025-08-14T22:15:45 <bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5f70bc8 Eugene Siegel: log: remove const qualifier from arguments in LogPrintFormatInternal
5422025-08-14T22:15:46 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #33011: log: rate limiting followups (master...32604_followup_07152025) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33011
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5532025-08-14T22:33:32 <bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] ajtowns opened pull request #33191: net: Provide block templates to peers on request (master...202508-sendtemplate1) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33191
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5742025-08-14T23:16:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: i think the reduction to 1 sat/kvB is really a "there shouldn't be a separate rule for what to mine from the mempool, the mempool itself should be good enough at only accepting good things"
5752025-08-14T23:18:03 <sipa> though i think there have been some suggestions that that should be a change to consider separately from the minrelayfee reduction PR
5762025-08-14T23:39:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: i hadn't really considered your perspective here of seeing it as a way to coordinate ability to relay/mine separately, though - i thought it was mostly a way to allow miners to set a per-byte cost to including a transaction (due to the increased propagation delay including would cause the transaction to have), which is mostly outdated compact-blocks
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