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2012026-10-22T10:39:43 <fanquake> @willcl-ark: could you add a Ralph pass that looks for dead/unused code in PRs (scoped to lines touched). Either introduced dead, or made dead by the diff.
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2192026-10-22T11:05:44 <willcl-ark> Sure, I can add that
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2342026-10-22T11:12:35 <brunoerg> Isn't there some static tool that could do this?
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2412026-10-22T11:22:12 <willcl-ark> yeah I think you can use cppcheck and various clang tools, but I don't think there's any single "perfect" tool (might be mistaken here)
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2442026-10-22T11:25:20 <fanquake> Yea there's all sorts of tools, that will catch some subset of issues
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2952026-10-22T12:49:19 <achow101> bot dead, 32.0 code signatures are up
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3152026-10-22T13:42:19 <darosior> stickies-v: taking a shot at rewording the easy-to-find vulns policy
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3972026-10-22T15:47:00 <darosior> big meeting incoming, as i see PRs related to last week's Coredev are being open?
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4032026-10-22T15:56:17 <yancy> re dead code, I've a PR that's been lying around a while that removes dead code from the fuzzer #36071. Its only been reviewed by brunoerg. A tool that finds such dead code enlarge would be great.
4042026-10-22T15:56:20 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36071 | refactor: fuzz: remove cost_of_change from coin-grinder fuzz target by yancyribbens · Pull Request #36071 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4052026-10-22T15:57:36 <yancy> maybe the tool code be named sixth sense for dead code not dead people :P
4062026-10-22T15:58:36 <fanquake> yancy: can you respond to the review comment there
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4082026-10-22T16:00:05 <stickies-v> #startmeeting
4092026-10-22T16:00:05 <corebot> stickies-v: Meeting started at 2026-10-22T16:00+0000
4102026-10-22T16:00:06 <corebot> stickies-v: Current chairs: stickies-v
4112026-10-22T16:00:08 <corebot> stickies-v: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
4122026-10-22T16:00:08 <corebot> stickies-v: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
4132026-10-22T16:00:10 <corebot> stickies-v: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'
4142026-10-22T16:00:11 <darosior> hi
4152026-10-22T16:00:12 <achow101> hi
4162026-10-22T16:00:12 *** marcofleon is back
4172026-10-22T16:00:13 <willcl-ark> hi
4182026-10-22T16:00:15 <andrewtoth_> hi
4192026-10-22T16:00:15 <stickies-v> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: _aj_ abubakarsadiq achow101 andrewtoth b10c brunoerg cfields danielabrozzoni darosior dzxzg eugenesiegel fanquake fjahr furszy hebasto hodlinator instagibbs janb84 jarolrod johnny9dev jonatack josie jurraca kanzure kevkevin laanwj lightlike l0rinc maflcko marcofleon maxedw Murch pinheadmz provoostenator pseudoramdom ryanofsky sdaftuar sedited sipa sliv3r__ sr_gi stickies-v stringintech
4202026-10-22T16:00:15 <stickies-v> theStack vasild willcl-ark
4212026-10-22T16:00:18 <instagibbs> hi
4222026-10-22T16:00:23 <hebasto> hi
4232026-10-22T16:00:25 <eugenesiegel> hi
4242026-10-22T16:00:25 <marcofleon> hi
4252026-10-22T16:00:25 <johnny9dev> Hi
4262026-10-22T16:00:28 <achow101> would like for my topic to be first, so I can go to sleep
4272026-10-22T16:00:36 <brunoerg> Hi
4282026-10-22T16:00:55 <stickies-v> we have one pre-proposed meeting topic for this week, any others to add?
4292026-10-22T16:00:59 <enochazariah> hi
4302026-10-22T16:01:10 <darosior> 9AM bedtime?
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4322026-10-22T16:01:22 <tigerMafia> hello world
4332026-10-22T16:01:23 <instagibbs> stickies-v I'd like to speak briefly about #36608 later
4342026-10-22T16:01:24 <achow101> i'm still in <redacted>, it's 1 am
4352026-10-22T16:01:26 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36608 | Reimplement private broadcast as node state-less jobs + package relay support by instagibbs · Pull Request #36608 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4362026-10-22T16:01:26 <stickies-v> achow101: sure, i'll take that one first after the WGs if that's okay
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4382026-10-22T16:01:39 <yancy> hi
4392026-10-22T16:01:45 <achow101> stickies-v: ok
4402026-10-22T16:01:47 <Murch[m]> hi
4412026-10-22T16:01:47 <stickies-v> instagibbs: will add it
4422026-10-22T16:01:52 <yancy> s/lying/laying
4432026-10-22T16:02:08 <kanzure_> hi
4442026-10-22T16:02:11 <stickies-v> #topic Fuzzing WG Update (eugenesiegel, marcofleon)
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4462026-10-22T16:03:15 <marcofleon> no update from me
4472026-10-22T16:03:29 <eugenesiegel> currently just working on getting bedrock into shape so we can run fuzzamoto with it. some faults I added found some really minor database consistency issues
4482026-10-22T16:04:19 <stickies-v> #topic QML GUI WG Update (johnny9dev)
4492026-10-22T16:04:20 <eugenesiegel> like e.g. a node having a power loss at a super specific point during -reindex prevents the node from starting up again. should things like that be fixed?
4502026-10-22T16:04:25 <johnny9dev> We got a lot of good feedback last week and we've started working through that.
4512026-10-22T16:04:33 <stickies-v> oops sorry
4522026-10-22T16:04:33 <stickies-v> #topic Fuzzing WG Update (eugenesiegel, marcofleon)
4532026-10-22T16:04:42 <eugenesiegel> woops, too slow
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4552026-10-22T16:06:08 <stickies-v> eugenesiegel: if it's a loud failure, i wouldn't personally consider that worth spending a lot of energy or complexity on
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4572026-10-22T16:06:34 <yancy> eugensiegel: might it also be OS disk corruption?
4582026-10-22T16:06:34 <stickies-v> silent consensus failures/money losing behaviour is a different thing of course
4592026-10-22T16:07:38 <eugenesiegel> I don't think it's a disk corruption issue, just a things not being persisted in the proper order/way. It wasn't clear to me what guarantees the codebase should have against all possible scenarios like that where there's no critical failure like consensus failure / money loss
4602026-10-22T16:07:40 <brunoerg> perhaps it depends on how complex the fix would be?
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4642026-10-22T16:08:27 <eugenesiegel> I think the fixes are pretty small. I don't think it's likely that anybody will run into these issues though
4652026-10-22T16:09:19 <eugenesiegel> that's it from me though
4662026-10-22T16:10:30 <stickies-v> #topic QML GUI WG Update (johnny9dev)
4672026-10-22T16:10:35 <johnny9dev> As I mentioned were working on the feedback from last week.
4682026-10-22T16:10:57 <johnny9dev> We've got a pr to clarify storage choices during onboarding
4692026-10-22T16:11:28 <johnny9dev> Priority is getting the staging branch ready
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4712026-10-22T16:12:37 <johnny9dev> I am increasingly interested in making a pruned wallet setup working and have started looking into the txindex and compact block filters
4722026-10-22T16:13:16 <darosior> You mean pruned rescans?
4732026-10-22T16:13:16 <sipa> hi
4742026-10-22T16:13:27 <johnny9dev> Yeah pruned rescans
4752026-10-22T16:13:45 <johnny9dev> Block retrieval
4762026-10-22T16:14:13 <johnny9dev> Anyway I think that will become a high priority for the Qml project once the staging branch is settled
4772026-10-22T16:14:30 <johnny9dev> That's all for now.
4782026-10-22T16:14:38 <darosior> eugenesiegel: worth at least opening an issue for those IMO, may be a symptom of a bug that could open up more serious inconsistencies down the road. As far as i know we should always be able to recover from a crash?
4792026-10-22T16:15:34 <eugenesiegel> darosior: (y)
4802026-10-22T16:15:42 <Murch[m]> We chatted a bit about potential release timeline for the new GUI recently. There was an argument that such a big change should be merged very early in a release cycle, right after branch-off, and that it therefore should only be considered for v34. However, I’d like to submit that it sounds like the new GUI has significantly better testing infrastructure, way more eyes, and it feels somewhat uncomfortable to release with the old GUI in
4812026-10-22T16:15:42 <Murch[m]> the time of daily RCEs when hardly anyone is actually looking at the old GUI.
4822026-10-22T16:16:03 <Murch[m]> Maybe we should talk more about whether we should try to get the new GUI into v33.
4832026-10-22T16:17:13 <hebasto> it seems premature until the staging branch is ready
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4852026-10-22T16:17:41 <johnny9dev> My current view on it is that we'll have the PR by the end of the year. Likely end of November or early December if I had to guess right now.
4862026-10-22T16:18:09 <stickies-v> i'm not sure merging a huge amount of new code is necessarily safer RCE/vulnerability wise, so I don't think we should feel time pressure because of that
4872026-10-22T16:18:12 <Murch[m]> Sure, let’s revisit when the staging branch is available
4882026-10-22T16:18:32 <hebasto> ^ agree
4892026-10-22T16:20:02 <stickies-v> #topic QA WG Update (brunoerg)
4902026-10-22T16:20:19 <brunoerg> no updates this week
4912026-10-22T16:20:30 <cfields> hi
4922026-10-22T16:20:50 <stickies-v> alright, that's all for the WG updates then
4932026-10-22T16:20:56 <stickies-v> #topic another windows code signer (achow101)
4942026-10-22T16:21:07 <achow101> right now windows code signing is done by only me, which is a single point of failure that i would prefer we did not have. if anyone is interested in being a code signer, shoot me a message
4952026-10-22T16:21:29 <achow101> needs to be someone who currently builds, or will commmit to building, all releases and release candidates shortly after tagging
4962026-10-22T16:21:39 <achow101> that's all
4972026-10-22T16:23:13 <stickies-v> #topic Reimplement private broadcast as node state-less jobs + package relay support (#36608) (instagibbs)
4982026-10-22T16:23:15 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36608 | Reimplement private broadcast as node state-less jobs + package relay support by instagibbs · Pull Request #36608 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4992026-10-22T16:23:20 <instagibbs> Hi, I'd like to share something I've been working on for the last few months.
5002026-10-22T16:23:20 <instagibbs> I've been working on a node state-less variant of private broadcast, and I believe
5012026-10-22T16:23:20 <instagibbs> it's mature enough to be considered for replacement for v33 release. It makes
5022026-10-22T16:23:20 <instagibbs> some opinionated decisions in order to make reasoning about the afforded privacy easier.
5032026-10-22T16:23:20 <instagibbs> It's meant to be a feature swap out, still using the same `sendrawtransaction` path,
5042026-10-22T16:23:20 <instagibbs> and at the end has 1p1c package relay support tacked on for good measure. Also
5052026-10-22T16:23:21 <instagibbs> includes a stand-alone tool that is a thin wrapper around the same job.
5062026-10-22T16:23:27 <instagibbs> sorry for breaks
5072026-10-22T16:23:37 <instagibbs> A bit of sticker shock but: Roughly +4,600 net in logic loc, and *all* outside of consensus critical
5082026-10-22T16:23:37 <instagibbs> code (all in-master net_processing stuff for private broadcast gone), and the rest is tests and then documentation
5092026-10-22T16:23:49 <instagibbs> What I'm looking for in the short-term:
5102026-10-22T16:23:49 <instagibbs> 1. High level spec discussions / concept and approach (n)ACKs, and *a general project buy-in that we want this to happen by v33*. Now is the time to fix it fundamentally.
5112026-10-22T16:23:49 <instagibbs> 2. Do we care about an individual tool variant, which is currently included? Could be folded into another tool like bitcoin-util, or simply removed. The underlying architecture remains, whatever we choose, but could save some boilerplate and move-only commits if removed.
5122026-10-22T16:23:49 <instagibbs> 3. Should this be 2 PRs: one PR to swap everything out, and then one follow-up PR for package relay support? More? less?
5132026-10-22T16:23:54 <instagibbs> that's all, thanks
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5152026-10-22T16:25:33 <andrewtoth_> I haven't looked at this in depth yet, but I'm not sure a 17k line PR is realistic to get in for v33?
5162026-10-22T16:26:07 <andrewtoth_> I left some conceptual feedback on the previous branch. It doesn't seem like any of my concerns or suggestions were addressed?
5172026-10-22T16:26:21 <instagibbs> I responded to all your comments, AFAIK
5182026-10-22T16:26:31 <cfields> instagibbs: I think that has a lot of overlap with my multi-process p2p work which may be worth reviving and teaming up on. I'll take a look and bug you out-of-band.
5192026-10-22T16:26:56 <instagibbs> and to be clear, it's ~4.6k loc net of logic, rest is tests. I can delete tests but I think it should be motivated
5202026-10-22T16:27:11 <stickies-v> yeah i think this is a big lift for a single feature, but if it goes hand in hand with a better architecture, that would be nice
5212026-10-22T16:27:41 <instagibbs> right, maybe it's two releases, but I don't think it has to be, it's removal of risk imo
5222026-10-22T16:27:49 <darosior> I agree with the approach: we should fix the node state leaks structurally, and then potentially consider carving out some exceptions if necessary to improve UX, instead of the opposite
5232026-10-22T16:28:30 <instagibbs> https://github.com/instagibbs/bitcoin/pull/7 this thread had a little back and forth which andrewtoth_ alluded to, may be informative
5242026-10-22T16:29:05 <andrewtoth_> Can we better quantify the risks this is addressing? There were several fixes for private broadcast in v32. What are the remaining gaps that we are doing this work for?
5252026-10-22T16:29:28 <instagibbs> I'm not going to list them all, and I think missing hte point
5262026-10-22T16:30:10 <instagibbs> The risks is sharing node state, which seeps out in dozens of ways
5272026-10-22T16:30:16 <darosior> We can never guarantee perfect privacy or anonymity, but if the point of private broadcast is to provide *any* limited guarantee in adversarial conditions, separating from the node's state is a requirement. If the point isn't to provide such limited guarantees in adversarial conditions, i don't know what we are doing.
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5322026-10-22T16:30:44 <instagibbs> cfields cool let's chat
5332026-10-22T16:31:08 <andrewtoth_> For asking reviewers to review this work it would be good to be more forthcoming on the benefits of the work. We have private broadcast marked experimental now, and we have softened the guarantees we make about it. What are the remaining gaps in light of that?
5342026-10-22T16:32:03 <darosior> The remaining gap is that there is little point in a feature that protects a user's privacy if nobody cares to attack them in the first place
5352026-10-22T16:32:18 <andrewtoth_> linking lion is attacking all users
5362026-10-22T16:32:53 <darosior> Sure, and?
5372026-10-22T16:33:03 <instagibbs> I'd say the most interesting thing to debate about a design is the addrman-less design, since addrman is attacker influenced quite heavily, and there's tradeoffs in that direction
5382026-10-22T16:33:08 <andrewtoth_> using private broadcast protects user's privacy against linking lion today
5392026-10-22T16:33:39 <instagibbs> but certainly not limited to that
5402026-10-22T16:33:48 <darosior> This is akin to saying linking lion isn't using bip324 connections today, so let's switch to using exclusively that, and call it "private" even though it doesn't offer any privacy
5412026-10-22T16:34:18 <andrewtoth_> no i don't think that's a fair comparison
5422026-10-22T16:34:34 <instagibbs> We can do better, let's do better.
5432026-10-22T16:35:10 <andrewtoth_> default broadcast trivially exposes the transaction origin, even with bip324.
5442026-10-22T16:35:42 <darosior> Current private broadcast can expose it too, if someone cares enough to attack
5452026-10-22T16:36:08 <instagibbs> Ok, I don't want to hold people here, we can continue debating offline
5462026-10-22T16:36:12 <andrewtoth_> i'm not sure it's that trivial darosior
5472026-10-22T16:36:51 <darosior> I don't say it's exactly trivial, but i also don't think it's reasonable for a project like ours to be offering feature branded as privacy that don't hold up to a certain bar
5482026-10-22T16:37:21 <darosior> Regarding your questions, instagibbs
5492026-10-22T16:38:20 <darosior> For 2) i don't see why we'd need a new tool. bitcoin-util seems fine for this. A separate tool seems like a minor cost for a potentially useful feature (broadcast without having to fire up node), and is also useful as a canary against reintroducing state
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5512026-10-22T16:39:09 <instagibbs> I started with the tool, to make sure I wasn't re-adding node state to jobs, then took that library and reused it inside the node.
5522026-10-22T16:39:27 <instagibbs> so kind of lines up
5532026-10-22T16:39:29 <darosior> For 3) i think package relay can go in a followup as an improvement, but i don't think the swap out should be broken down, to make sure we don't end up with two implementations of the same feature in master
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5552026-10-22T16:40:02 <darosior> No strong opinion though. Thanks for working on this
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5582026-10-22T16:42:04 <stickies-v> agreed with darosior on 3)
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5602026-10-22T16:42:18 <stickies-v> anything else to discuss?
5612026-10-22T16:42:44 <fanquake> v32.0 has been tagged
5622026-10-22T16:43:05 <fanquake> The updates to the security policy have been merged: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/1281
5632026-10-22T16:43:28 <fanquake> PR to enrol core in the anthropic oss scanner: https://github.com/anthropics/oss-scanner/pull/1018
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5662026-10-22T16:46:10 <stickies-v> ty for the updates fanquake. looks like that's all for today
5672026-10-22T16:46:18 <stickies-v> big meeting, thanks everyone for participating!
5682026-10-22T16:46:25 <stickies-v> #endmeeting
5692026-10-22T16:46:25 <corebot> stickies-v: Meeting ended at 2026-10-22T16:46+0000
5702026-10-22T16:46:26 <corebot> stickies-v: Raw log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2026/bitcoin-core-dev.2026-10-22_16_00.log.json
5712026-10-22T16:46:27 <corebot> stickies-v: Formatted log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2026/bitcoin-core-dev.2026-10-22_16_00.log.html
5722026-10-22T16:46:28 <corebot> stickies-v: Minutes: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2026/bitcoin-core-dev.2026-10-22_16_00.html
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6382026-10-22T20:10:16 <yancy> b10c has a blog post where he talks about "linkinglion" which I found interesting to read about. There, he also discusses prevention and solutions which discusses the recent tor privacy work: https://b10c.me/observations/06-linkinglion/. Other solutions he posts mention a possible explicit banlist of misbehaving addresses "blacklist". However, I would have thought another possible solution
6392026-10-22T20:10:22 <yancy> would be an explicit "whitelist".
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6412026-10-22T20:12:04 <yancy> I think an explicit whitelist would also solve the recent discussion and PRs ive seen about tx rebroadcast. In that, I think it would be possible to only broadcast txs to a set of known good peers.
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7612026-10-22T23:40:02 *** enochazariah__ is back
7622026-10-22T23:41:15 *** PaperSword is now away: I am currently away from the computer.
7632026-10-22T23:42:22 *** danielabrozzoni is back
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7662026-10-22T23:48:06 *** fjahr is now away: Auto-away