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532026-11-05T02:09:31 <bitcoindev1337> hi i was blocked on github responding to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36761
542026-11-05T02:09:33 <bitcoindev1337> i am not spam
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2252026-11-05T10:09:03 <sedited> there is zero substance in that comment.
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2412026-11-05T10:56:00 <stevenroose> yeah lol
2422026-11-05T10:56:06 <maflcko> Assuming willcl-ark is fine with that too: Would there be any objection of bringing the Ralph LLM review into a hidden/collapsed repo comment? The benefit would be to save one click and external tab for those that want to use it. For those that want to ignore the LLM-speak, the comment remains collapsed and can easily be ignored, just like the external link?
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2552026-11-05T11:24:19 <sedited> I'd still prefer the link for now.
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2612026-11-05T11:31:05 <sliv3r__> +1 on the link, I am using ralph a lot lately but I find it easier to find with a link as I know where it is, maybe looking for a comment in a long threat is not as good... unless we change the external repo link for a comment link :)
2622026-11-05T11:36:48 <maflcko> I was thinking it would be one of the earlier comments (like the Drahtbot one), so it would be easy to find, but still collapsed to be hidden by default. But no strong opinion. Making it an internal link is also possible, but seems fine to keep an external link for now. No rush to change it.
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2702026-11-05T11:49:17 <willcl-ark> (of I am quite biased here but) I also feel like an inline comment would be nice at this point in time, seeing as ralph seems to now report few LLM hallucinations. This is already being trialled over in gui-qml for anyone who'd like to see how it looks, minus the collapsible comment part.
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2722026-11-05T11:50:01 <willcl-ark> I think one reason for posting directly in the PRs is that it cuts out a reviewer having to post the (spammy?) "please check the ralph review" comment on PRs, and might also reduce reviewers re-posting findings ralph has already flagged.
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2742026-11-05T11:51:48 <willcl-ark> sedited: might i ask for what reason you'd prefer not to see a direct comment on the PR? Whilst I get us not wanting tonnes of pure AI-written review comments, IMO having a single one per-PR wouldn't be _too_ bad...
2752026-11-05T11:53:04 <maflcko> My hope is also that having it collapsed, but inline would discourage all the other (duplicate) LLM re-hash reviews, but this is just a hope and could also backfire?
2762026-11-05T11:53:18 <sliv3r__> willcl-ark: that's a fair point tbh, I feel that a hidden comment + link to comment would be the best approach.
2772026-11-05T11:53:38 <sliv3r__> maflcko: a bunch of LLM posting suggested changes to fix ralph comments? lol
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2832026-11-05T11:55:33 <maflcko> heh, it could also make it easier to detect and block the other re-hashing LLMs
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2902026-11-05T12:08:29 <sedited> willcl-ark I think I just prefer a single comment for all our automated tools. It just seems easier to consume and less noisy to me. Plus might still be annoying to get to on a PR with many comments once github collapses them, even with a link to it.
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2932026-11-05T12:12:17 <sedited> how about them in a collapsed section in the drahtbot comment?
2942026-11-05T12:12:19 <willcl-ark> That's fair, and there'd certainly be a "transition period" where with existing PRs, with many comments, ralphs comment would be at the bottom. whereas on new PRs it would be right under drahtbot (most likely). I'd still favour having them on the PR at this stage myself for the reasons outlined previously, but happy to go with rough consensus on the matter.
2952026-11-05T12:15:26 <willcl-ark> I think hooking up two two bots would be a bit janky. And would likely require something like ralph emitting webhooks for drahtbot so drahtbot knew when to update the collapsed section in it's own comment. I think I'd stick with the status quo vs that :)
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3022026-11-05T12:27:44 <maflcko> DrahtBot should be back up today, so if there are any missing updates, lmk
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3092026-11-05T12:40:11 <vasild> That is another story, but it would be nice if the PR author can somehow show to the others that he has read and acknowledged ralf's comments. Because now other reviewers have no idea if the author paid attention and dismissed, did not pay attention.
3102026-11-05T12:40:21 <vasild> _or_ did not pay attention
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3132026-11-05T12:48:33 <maflcko> vasild: When the feedback is valid, I ususally say "thx ralph" or so. When it is ai slop, I ignore it as a test for other reviewers to see if the fall for the ai slop.
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3152026-11-05T12:49:22 <vasild> :)
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3642026-11-05T14:53:46 <darosior> "might also reduce reviewers re-posting findings ralph has already flagged" -> i'm in this picture and i don't like it
3652026-11-05T14:55:36 <bitcoindev1337> darosior iono if you banned me from 36761 but my comment is real, there's a balance between correctness and availability that has to be considered when changing anything about the networking logic otherwise a network partition could be made possible
3662026-11-05T14:56:26 <darosior> Ralph exceeded my expectations, but i agree with sedited. I still prefer an external link (or a collapsible comment) on the Drahtbot comment at this time
3672026-11-05T14:57:14 <darosior> bitcoindev1337: i can't ban people on this repo (for better or for worse heh)
3682026-11-05T14:57:56 <darosior> Unsure if it's worth a ban, but the comment you left is a platitude
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3762026-11-05T15:20:45 <bitcoindev1337> darosior i mean ok but there's a number of ways a patch here could cause a targeted network split
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4072026-11-05T16:02:38 <darosior> meeting?
4082026-11-05T16:02:53 <dzxzg> hi
4092026-11-05T16:02:56 <brunoerg> :)
4102026-11-05T16:03:00 <nervana21> hi
4112026-11-05T16:03:05 <darosior> cc stickies-v
4122026-11-05T16:03:18 <darosior> hi i guess
4132026-11-05T16:03:19 <sedited> hi
4142026-11-05T16:03:23 <janb84> hi
4152026-11-05T16:03:31 <brunoerg> hi
4162026-11-05T16:03:35 <maxedw> hi
4172026-11-05T16:03:54 <viniciuscestarii> hi
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4192026-11-05T16:04:01 * darosior impersonates stickies-v "Any last minute topic?"
4202026-11-05T16:04:12 <nervana21> lol
4212026-11-05T16:04:41 <_andrewtoth_> hi
4222026-11-05T16:05:22 <dzxzg> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: _aj_ abubakarsadiq achow101 andrewtoth b10c brunoerg cfields danielabrozzoni darosior dzxzg eugenesiegel fanquake fjahr furszy hebasto hodlinator instagibbs janb84 jarolrod johnny9dev jonatack josie jurraca kanzure kevkevin laanwj lightlike l0rinc maflcko marcofleon maxedw Murch pinheadmz provoostenator pseudoramdom ryanofsky sdaftuar sedited sipa sliv3r__ sr_gi stickies-v stringintech
4232026-11-05T16:05:33 <darosior> Looks like the meeting topics link in the channel topic is dead
4242026-11-05T16:05:37 <sliv3r__> hi
4252026-11-05T16:05:38 <dzxzg> (just to get the pings out and probably whatever the meeting recorder is)
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4272026-11-05T16:05:45 <darosior> Nice, thanks for stepping up dzxzg
4282026-11-05T16:05:56 <johnny9dev> Hi
4292026-11-05T16:05:57 <_andrewtoth_> there was daylight savings switch from last week, so might be why people aren't here
4302026-11-05T16:05:59 <darosior> I guess you have to run it now
4312026-11-05T16:06:14 <dzxzg> OK :) i'll copy paste the wg roll-calls from last week
4322026-11-05T16:06:21 <l0rinc_> hi
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4352026-11-05T16:06:30 <dzxzg> #topic Fuzzing WG Update (eugenesiegel, marcofleon)
4362026-11-05T16:06:31 <lightlike> hi
4372026-11-05T16:06:34 <darosior> dzxzg: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoin-devwiki/wiki/IRC-Meeting-Cheat-Sheet
4382026-11-05T16:06:42 <jonatack> HI
4392026-11-05T16:06:49 <jonatack> uh, hi
4402026-11-05T16:07:05 <dzxzg> (also there are no pre-proposed meeting topics this week, feel free to suggest any)
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4422026-11-05T16:07:25 <b10c> hi
4432026-11-05T16:07:40 <dzxzg> #topic QML GUI WG Update (johnny9dev)
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4452026-11-05T16:08:22 *** roconnor <roconnor!~quassel@rocq/roconnor> has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
4462026-11-05T16:08:24 <johnny9dev> Ralph review bot was enabled on the repo posting comme ts directly and we're trying it out. I like the idea and we'll see what works and how to improve it.
4472026-11-05T16:08:54 <johnny9dev> Other than that we are working through all of the PRs we have
4482026-11-05T16:09:01 <johnny9dev> That's all
4492026-11-05T16:09:06 <nervana21> #startmeeting
4502026-11-05T16:09:07 <corebot> nervana21: Meeting started at 2026-11-05T16:09+0000
4512026-11-05T16:09:07 <corebot> nervana21: Current chairs: nervana21
4522026-11-05T16:09:08 <hebasto> hi
4532026-11-05T16:09:09 <corebot> nervana21: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
4542026-11-05T16:09:10 <corebot> nervana21: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
4552026-11-05T16:09:11 <corebot> nervana21: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'
4562026-11-05T16:09:17 <dzxzg> ah haha
4572026-11-05T16:09:32 <dzxzg> #topic Benchmarking WG Update (l0rinc)
4582026-11-05T16:09:44 <l0rinc_> not strictly benchmarking, but pushed another step toward narrowing AssumeUTXO: #36778 replaces the loading RPC with a startup arg, so we can at least avoid all the weird corner cases of loading a UTXO set on top of an existing chainstate
4592026-11-05T16:09:45 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36778 | assumeutxo: replace `loadtxoutset` RPC with a startup arg by l0rinc · Pull Request #36778 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4602026-11-05T16:09:56 <l0rinc_> that's it from me
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4622026-11-05T16:10:13 <dzxzg> #topic Kernel WG Update (sedited)
4632026-11-05T16:10:23 <stickies-v> hi
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4652026-11-05T16:10:55 <sedited> still hunting for review on #35641
4662026-11-05T16:10:58 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/35641 | kernel: Add script evaluation tracer by sedited · Pull Request #35641 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
4672026-11-05T16:11:01 <bitcoindev1337> #topic Disk error handling inconsistencies
4682026-11-05T16:11:06 <jonatack> sorry to interject: asmap run in 6 minutes https://github.com/bitcoin-core/asmap-data/issues/79
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4712026-11-05T16:11:54 <sedited> Also wanted to highlight a tracking issue for making our unit tests more declarative in style: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36692
4722026-11-05T16:12:30 <b10c> jonatack: thanks, would have forgot
4732026-11-05T16:12:48 <abubakarsadiq> time change got me, sorry. Thanks @dzxzg
4742026-11-05T16:12:48 <sedited> I think this is an interesting initiative, since we've seen other implementations port our existing unit tests with LLMs.
4752026-11-05T16:13:01 <sedited> most chaotic meeting ^^
4762026-11-05T16:13:03 <sedited> that's all.
4772026-11-05T16:13:26 <dzxzg> #topic QA WG Update (brunoerg)
4782026-11-05T16:13:36 <brunoerg> no update this week
4792026-11-05T16:14:13 <dzxzg> last of the WG's i believe is a new one
4802026-11-05T16:14:14 <dzxzg> #topic addr-relay WG update (stratospher)
4812026-11-05T16:14:48 <dzxzg> I'm not sure that stratospher is here but I can say a bit
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4832026-11-05T16:15:01 <darosior> Go ahead, i'll ping her IRL
4842026-11-05T16:15:08 <b10c> she can read, but not type
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4882026-11-05T16:15:55 <dzxzg> There has been ongoing spam of existing addresses with fresh timestamps, this pins addresses in the new table, some discussions were had recently about how to mitigate this, and a WG has been formed to move forward with these changes
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4912026-11-05T16:16:32 <dzxzg> There are also some longstanding issues in Addrman that should be addressed, like the service flags problems, and address relay problems that exist because peers control the address timestamps
4922026-11-05T16:16:49 <darosior> Stratospher says "hi! we have an address relay WG now. feel free to ping me if youâd like to join. (getting my IRC ready)"
4932026-11-05T16:17:04 <dzxzg> cool, that's all from me as well.
4942026-11-05T16:17:06 <lightlike> see https://bnoc.xyz/t/address-relay-under-stress/163 and https://bnoc.xyz/t/address-relay-under-stress-attack-characteristics-and-measuring-its-effects/164 for some more details of current problems.
4952026-11-05T16:18:09 <dzxzg> OK i think there are no further WG's (speak up if I missed you)
4962026-11-05T16:18:16 <darosior> #proposedmeetingtopic CVE-2026-117349 and CVE-2026-117350 followups
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4982026-11-05T16:19:02 <dzxzg> #topic Disk error handling inconsistencies
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5002026-11-05T16:19:24 <stickies-v> (cc bitcoindev1337)
5012026-11-05T16:19:38 <darosior> stickies-v monitoring the situation
5022026-11-05T16:19:57 <bitcoindev1337> the way disk errors are handled is extremely inconsistent depending on the exact code path that triggers the error
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5042026-11-05T16:20:42 <bitcoindev1337> for example anything that triggers inside the try/catch block in process messages will be ignored unless specifically handled, but if the exact same error is triggered in rpc it might cause the node to shutdown entirely
5052026-11-05T16:21:54 <bitcoindev1337> some of the things ignored in the try/catch should actually cause a wallet node to abort but a non-wallet node not to abort, etc etc
5062026-11-05T16:22:13 <bitcoindev1337> my point is this needs an actual plan instead of piecemeal looking at crashes
5072026-11-05T16:22:23 <bitcoindev1337> im interested in other peoples thoughts on it
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5102026-11-05T16:23:14 <jonatack> bitcoindev1337: is there an RFC issue open
5112026-11-05T16:24:19 <jonatack> seems worth discussing in one
5122026-11-05T16:24:58 <sedited> there's many pull requests open addressing aspects of it, with a lot of discussions on the topic over the past years.
5132026-11-05T16:25:09 <bitcoindev1337> i dont think so and i'd open one but i got banned for a comment on 36761
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5152026-11-05T16:25:44 <sedited> there's also #36101
5162026-11-05T16:25:48 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36101 | doc: Add an error handling strategy by purpleKarrot · Pull Request #36101 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5172026-11-05T16:25:51 <bitcoindev1337> i really dislike discussion like that in pull requests since the op often has their own ideas which push around the discussion unduly
5182026-11-05T16:26:02 <pinheadmz> bitcoindev1337 ill unblock you but please keep the quality up
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5202026-11-05T16:26:09 <pinheadmz> also see #35003
5212026-11-05T16:26:13 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/35003 | validation: improve block data I/O error handling in P2P paths by furszy · Pull Request #35003 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5222026-11-05T16:26:14 <pinheadmz> this is sounding familiar
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5252026-11-05T16:27:22 <dzxzg> OK, it seems like #36101 might be the most relevant place to discuss if people have further thoughts
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5272026-11-05T16:27:25 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36101 | doc: Add an error handling strategy by purpleKarrot · Pull Request #36101 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5282026-11-05T16:27:37 <dzxzg> #topic CVE-2026-117349 and CVE-2026-117350 followups (darosior)
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5312026-11-05T16:27:57 <darosior> So we deployed patches for CVE-2026-117349 and CVE-2026-117350 last week. Thanks everyone involved in reviewing and accelerating that process. We had binaries available within about 48h of the mitigations PRs being made public, which is not bad for a first run of this new policy
5322026-11-05T16:27:59 <bitcoindev1337> i'll take a look at those and see what's already been discussed thank you
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5352026-11-05T16:28:08 <darosior> Now that those were made available, i'm curious if anyone has been thinking about cleanups, as well as improving our testing / understanding there?
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5372026-11-05T16:28:24 <stratospher> hi?
5382026-11-05T16:28:36 <darosior> stratospher: pong
5392026-11-05T16:28:39 <darosior> Cleanups because those were merely stopgaps, we should aim to fix those issues more fundamentally now that the dust settled down. For instance for CVE-2026-117349, the root cause is that we have unbounded growth in some p2p data structure. We fixed it with a timer to keep the growth manageable, but this is brittle, we should aim to have bounds on
5402026-11-05T16:28:39 <darosior> the memory usage peers can impose on us
5412026-11-05T16:29:51 <darosior> I've been working on this for CVE-2026-117350, hardening our tests in this area, and i opened #36761 to discuss longer term cleanups
5422026-11-05T16:29:52 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36761 | RFC: switch from select() to poll() on all platforms · Issue #36761 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5432026-11-05T16:30:13 <bitcoindev1337> darosior like the select/poll thing that's a surprisingly hard thing to do without accidentally disconnecting legitimate peers
5442026-11-05T16:31:03 <darosior> bitcoindev1337: i think always disconnecting on polling errors is fine, just not ideal for the http server
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5472026-11-05T16:31:52 <darosior> But we should be consistent, and document our choices, and test our invariants, to prevent something similar to happen in the future because barely anyone remembers how it works in details, and then such a surprise happens
5482026-11-05T16:32:23 <eugenesiegel> are you specifically seeking feedback about poll/select or other things also related to sockets ?
5492026-11-05T16:32:44 <darosior> I am curious what everyone thinks we should do about those, and i have one more question i'm typing now
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5532026-11-05T16:33:04 <darosior> Like just deploying the stopgap and forgetting about those will come back to bite us
5542026-11-05T16:34:14 <darosior> I've also been looking into post CVE-2026-117349 cleanups, and that would be some non completely trivial refactorings, but doable. However i have other things i'd like to work on that i temporarily dropped for the security releases, and these hardenings, so i'd like to know if there is any will to review such refactorings before i commit more time
5552026-11-05T16:34:14 <darosior> to implementing those
5562026-11-05T16:34:56 <sedited> what did roughly did you have in mind?
5572026-11-05T16:35:11 <darosior> For 117349?
5582026-11-05T16:35:30 <jonatack> yes
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5602026-11-05T16:35:52 <sedited> ja
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5622026-11-05T16:36:25 <dzxzg> I'd help review, I agree that leaving it mitigated and poorly understood leaves dangerous technical debt
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5642026-11-05T16:37:08 <darosior> sedited: 1) changing the tx INVs token bucket manager to use a single, bounded queue for all peers. Each peer keeps its cursor. 2) moving the parts of SendMessages() that actually pile up messages for peers towards the end, and early return on fPauseSend to not reach those
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5672026-11-05T16:37:39 <darosior> It's just incredibly surprising that fPauseSend does not pause SendMessages(), but there are good reasons for doing so currently
5682026-11-05T16:38:13 <darosior> 3) some minor cleanups for other less frequent announcements
5692026-11-05T16:39:19 <eugenesiegel> I could review as a backup if I'm able to clear some of my backlog. I think fundamentally fixing these issues is the right idea. I also think the socket code deserves more scrutiny
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5712026-11-05T16:40:01 <jonatack> darosior: feel free to ping me to review the PR
5722026-11-05T16:40:28 <darosior> sedited: but it's just one half-baked idea, which is why i ask here, my thoughts have mostly been on #36761 the past couple weeks.
5732026-11-05T16:40:30 <corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/36761 | RFC: switch from select() to poll() on all platforms · Issue #36761 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
5742026-11-05T16:40:49 <darosior> Ok, thanks everyone. That's all i had.
5752026-11-05T16:41:15 <dzxzg> Anything else to discuss?
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5772026-11-05T16:41:59 <dzxzg> #endmeeting
5782026-11-05T16:42:14 <nervana21> #endmeeting
5792026-11-05T16:42:15 <corebot> nervana21: Meeting ended at 2026-11-05T16:42+0000
5802026-11-05T16:42:16 <corebot> nervana21: Raw log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2026/bitcoin-core-dev.2026-11-05_16_09.log.json
5812026-11-05T16:42:17 <corebot> nervana21: Formatted log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2026/bitcoin-core-dev.2026-11-05_16_09.log.html
5822026-11-05T16:42:18 <corebot> nervana21: Minutes: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2026/bitcoin-core-dev.2026-11-05_16_09.html
5832026-11-05T16:42:36 <jonatack> Am curious, is it documented anywhere what is behind ralph: the models, etc.
5842026-11-05T16:42:51 <sedited> https://github.com/willcl-ark/nix/tree/master/pkgs/ralph
5852026-11-05T16:43:02 * dzxzg phew
5862026-11-05T16:43:11 <darosior> dzxzg nice run
5872026-11-05T16:43:12 <jonatack> sedited: ty
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5892026-11-05T16:44:10 <dzxzg> darosior: thanks, that was more stressful than I realized
5902026-11-05T16:44:27 <sedited> ty dzxzg :)
5912026-11-05T16:44:28 <nervana21> you did great!
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5932026-11-05T16:46:42 <darosior> Also PSA there is renewed activity around testnet5 https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2347
5942026-11-05T16:46:57 <darosior> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/35861
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6082026-11-05T17:03:06 <pseudoramdom> Ah daylight savings :/
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6252026-11-05T17:27:06 <eugenesiegel> instagibbs: for https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/35026 is there some oracle that would be helpful here besides "doesn't crash"?
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6372026-11-05T17:50:19 <darosior> eugenesiegel: "can still get a valid block template"?
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6422026-11-05T18:00:02 <eugenesiegel> darosior: sure, good one
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